Interview: Dustin Browder talks StarCraft 2 development and delays
Dustin Browder is the man in the hot seat as Blizzard's lead designer for StarCraft 2. Ultimately, he's the one you can heap the blame (or the praise) upon when the final product finally ships. At the time of this interview, we didn't officially know SC2 would be delayed, but given the sheer amount of things they'd shown us during our visit, it became clear that there was no way StarCraft 2 would make 2009.
Still, Browder talks about the reasons for the delay, and ultimately gamers are going to be happy that they chose to make the game better, rather than rush it out for the holiday shopping frenzy. Read on for the full interview with him where we talk delays, easter eggs, the new matchmaking system, the single player experience, and hidden items in the game, including a fully playable Lost Viking arcade game with a data editor that will let you make your own scrolling shooters.
We keep hearing rumors about a supposed delay. And based on what you guys were saying this morning in the theater – figuring out the Lab, figuring out some of the other stuff – it seems this year might be getting harder to reach.
It is getting close, isn't it?
What is the thinking on Blizzard's side? I know the quote is "we don't ship until it is done."
Yeah. That is the rule and that will be the case. If we slip, we slip. But our goal is ... we are still trying real hard and we will see what happens.
Was the delay just due to changes? Did you guys make some last minute additions? For instance, the Lab feels like it is still being figured out.
Yeah, that needs some work. Those were definitely added. We have a lot more work to do on performance. We've got a lot more work on performance. We have some more work to do on Battle.Net. We have a lot of ambitious plans that we suddenly realized we were not willing to cut back on. We want these to be great, and, "That will make it a little bit better!" "Yeah, it would. Okay." So, we have definitely got to do some more work in that area as well.
When this event was originally scheduled we were going to be seeing this stuff back in June, and then seeing the revamped Battle.Net as well. Have the changes you guys are wanting to make to Battle.Net pushed StarCraft 2 a little bit as well?
Well I don't know. We will see. It is all part of the same package for us at this point.
Then they will roll out together?
Yeah. They will come out together. We've got to have a Battle.Net for StarCraft 2, and it has got to be cool, right? So we will see what happens. We will see what we can get done and what we can't get done. At this point we are so close to it, I just want us to win and go now. But if we don't make it, that is what happens.
Have you guys been thinking about having a separate Battle.Net client or is it still going to be in-game?
Well for StarCraft 2 it is definitely going to be in-game. We definitely talked about that.
We noticed achievements in the game. Will there be achievements that are tracked on Battle.Net or somewhere else online where you can access them? "Dude, check out what I did in StarCraft," and send that to somebody else who doesn't have Battle.Net?
Yes. And that is why it is there. Absolutely.
And the big thing that everyone has reacted to is no LAN. Did you guys expect that much of a wave of backlash?
Yeah, pretty much.
And we got an official response. Is that still pretty much the case?
Yeah. We feel it makes a better experience overall. We want you to be connected. We want you to have your achievements. We don't want to have to figure out and explain to you that you are not going to get your achievements because you are playing on LAN. We want you to be part of the integrated experience.
We are not even talking about doing Battle.Net quite the same way we were doing it in the past. You are not going to start up StarCraft and then log into Battle.Net. You are going to log in to play StarCraft, and Battle.Net will be on. And then you are going to decide, "Do I want to play StarCraft solo? Do I want to play multi? Oh, hey! My friends are on. Maybe I should go play multi. Ah, my friends aren't on. I will just play solo."
So the whole idea is to create a total package that uses the Internet in a way that is more fun than is typical. When the original game came out the Internet was scary and weird. And not everybody knew how to use it. Not everybody had a good connection. People were on modems and I don't know what else. It was not a part of the PC, and that is not really the case anymore. It is part of the PC. Like when you get a PC, you get it with the Internet.
So we want to have an experience that takes advantage of all of that hardware and all the fun that comes with that.
We see achievements in SC2. They came to Warcraft. I am assuming we are probably going to see them in Diablo probably as well? That seems to be the way things are going.
Yes. Definitely. This is a nerfed version you've been playing too. We actually had to remove the achievement tracking button, because it was where we couldn't do it. But yeah. You can track them in games. You can compare them with your friends, see how you are doing. The whole thing.
I noticed in the Cantina there is an arcade game in the back. Is that going to be something playable?
Oh yeah.
Is it The Lost Viking?
It is a game called Lost Viking. It is a top scrolling shooter. It is made in the StarCraft 1 engine with SC1 art with stuff scrolling by. It is all done with our data editor. There is nothing in there that a user couldn't do. So we are going to ship the data editor with the game obviously. And we are also going to ship this as an example for people so people can make their own shooters and play them.
I wanted to ask about the music. I am hearing this guy sing about "Night Train Wine." Is this an original song for the game or is it a real song?
Actually, I don't know. I am not plugged into that. You can check with the sound guys. I know they have been talking with local artists. Some of these are recorded by Blizzard bands, guys in the studio who have some talent. I think they are talking to people who are local artists to record some music as well. I don't actually know.
It is great stuff. The jukebox is clickable. Are you going to be able to make custom soundtracks eventually or is it just for fun?
I think it is just for fun in the Cantina.
Still, Browder talks about the reasons for the delay, and ultimately gamers are going to be happy that they chose to make the game better, rather than rush it out for the holiday shopping frenzy. Read on for the full interview with him where we talk delays, easter eggs, the new matchmaking system, the single player experience, and hidden items in the game, including a fully playable Lost Viking arcade game with a data editor that will let you make your own scrolling shooters.
We keep hearing rumors about a supposed delay. And based on what you guys were saying this morning in the theater – figuring out the Lab, figuring out some of the other stuff – it seems this year might be getting harder to reach.
It is getting close, isn't it?
What is the thinking on Blizzard's side? I know the quote is "we don't ship until it is done."
Yeah. That is the rule and that will be the case. If we slip, we slip. But our goal is ... we are still trying real hard and we will see what happens.
Was the delay just due to changes? Did you guys make some last minute additions? For instance, the Lab feels like it is still being figured out.
We have a lot of ambitious plans that we suddenly realized we were not willing to cut back on. |
When this event was originally scheduled we were going to be seeing this stuff back in June, and then seeing the revamped Battle.Net as well. Have the changes you guys are wanting to make to Battle.Net pushed StarCraft 2 a little bit as well?
Well I don't know. We will see. It is all part of the same package for us at this point.
Then they will roll out together?
Yeah. They will come out together. We've got to have a Battle.Net for StarCraft 2, and it has got to be cool, right? So we will see what happens. We will see what we can get done and what we can't get done. At this point we are so close to it, I just want us to win and go now. But if we don't make it, that is what happens.
Have you guys been thinking about having a separate Battle.Net client or is it still going to be in-game?
Well for StarCraft 2 it is definitely going to be in-game. We definitely talked about that.
We noticed achievements in the game. Will there be achievements that are tracked on Battle.Net or somewhere else online where you can access them? "Dude, check out what I did in StarCraft," and send that to somebody else who doesn't have Battle.Net?
Yes. And that is why it is there. Absolutely.
And the big thing that everyone has reacted to is no LAN. Did you guys expect that much of a wave of backlash?
Yeah, pretty much.
And we got an official response. Is that still pretty much the case?
You are not going to start up Starcraft and then log into Battle.Net. You are going to log in to play Starcraft, and Battle.Net will be on. |
We are not even talking about doing Battle.Net quite the same way we were doing it in the past. You are not going to start up StarCraft and then log into Battle.Net. You are going to log in to play StarCraft, and Battle.Net will be on. And then you are going to decide, "Do I want to play StarCraft solo? Do I want to play multi? Oh, hey! My friends are on. Maybe I should go play multi. Ah, my friends aren't on. I will just play solo."
So the whole idea is to create a total package that uses the Internet in a way that is more fun than is typical. When the original game came out the Internet was scary and weird. And not everybody knew how to use it. Not everybody had a good connection. People were on modems and I don't know what else. It was not a part of the PC, and that is not really the case anymore. It is part of the PC. Like when you get a PC, you get it with the Internet.
So we want to have an experience that takes advantage of all of that hardware and all the fun that comes with that.
We see achievements in SC2. They came to Warcraft. I am assuming we are probably going to see them in Diablo probably as well? That seems to be the way things are going.
Yes. Definitely. This is a nerfed version you've been playing too. We actually had to remove the achievement tracking button, because it was where we couldn't do it. But yeah. You can track them in games. You can compare them with your friends, see how you are doing. The whole thing.
I noticed in the Cantina there is an arcade game in the back. Is that going to be something playable?
Oh yeah.
Is it The Lost Viking?
It is a game called Lost Viking. It is a top scrolling shooter. It is made in the StarCraft 1 engine with SC1 art with stuff scrolling by. It is all done with our data editor. There is nothing in there that a user couldn't do. So we are going to ship the data editor with the game obviously. And we are also going to ship this as an example for people so people can make their own shooters and play them.
I wanted to ask about the music. I am hearing this guy sing about "Night Train Wine." Is this an original song for the game or is it a real song?
Actually, I don't know. I am not plugged into that. You can check with the sound guys. I know they have been talking with local artists. Some of these are recorded by Blizzard bands, guys in the studio who have some talent. I think they are talking to people who are local artists to record some music as well. I don't actually know.
It is great stuff. The jukebox is clickable. Are you going to be able to make custom soundtracks eventually or is it just for fun?
I think it is just for fun in the Cantina.














Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Anthony M. @ Aug 17th 2009 6:22PM
No LAN still = No Purchase from me.
epsilon343 @ Aug 17th 2009 6:35PM
I can kinda understand this...but why is it such a big deal anymore? Most people seem to have some sort of high-speed connection in their houses now, a cheap splitter is readily available just about anywhere, and every dorm I've seen has at least high speed internet if not a full wireless set up.
In fact, at my school, it's been easier to run a game online rather than setting up a LAN and that goes for both consoles and PC games. So what exactly is it about the lack of LAN support that is such a huge deal that you won't purchase this game?
Anthony M. @ Aug 17th 2009 6:41PM
Speed, reliability, quick connection, etc.
Cram a ton of people on the same 5meg dsl connection, with half the people playing other games / browsing the internet/ etc, and show me it still works flawlessly through bnet...
Joystiq Hates MRLN @ Aug 17th 2009 6:58PM
Because it costs money to go online.
rTwelve @ Aug 17th 2009 7:13PM
For every Starcraft 2 you don't buy I will buy three.
.....That doesn't work out so well.
devilsei @ Aug 17th 2009 7:37PM
It isn't a deal breaker, but there is no excuse not to include it. No one cares about their achievement system, not so much that if LAN didn't let you get them no one would play. Its a fair trade off.
And personally, I don't like the idea of Battle.Net running constantly. I'd rather it start up like it does normally. If I want to get on and use it, I'll play online, I don't need it eating up memory and space when I have no interest in going online with it.
Shaden79 @ Aug 17th 2009 7:53PM
so far this still boils down to nothing other than a copyright protection scheme no matter what way i look at it. i know that the star craft team keeps reiterating all this talk about battle net integration and stat tracking and how integration is impossible if they include lan support, but i really cant get behind such obvious schill when i just saw proof positive of stat tracking and lan support working just fine side by side during an office game of cod4.
and for everyone saying that lan support is no longer necessary in todays internet driven society. i will once again use my office as an example. our lovely fire wall has no chance of letting starcraft through. so even if we wanted to use our internet connection to play with the person in the cubicle next to us, we can't.
also i haven't really heard anything about this but will starcraft 2 have the ability for "spawn" installations or have they phased that out too in favor of increased control and stat tracking. because i think that would at least address some peoples fears if they knew that they can still play with their friends through spawn installs.
any way best of luck to blizzard and all the lovely hackers who will make the pirated version of a product once again more useful then retail.
cheers!
Shaden79
sukru @ Aug 17th 2009 8:24PM
They should also think about tournaments or big game expos. There will be hundreds of machines in a competition, and online lag will be a big issue, especially if the tournament is professional (i.e.: there is money involved).
Crusty Magic @ Aug 17th 2009 8:38PM
Don't know why you got down rated.
Anywho, LAN is a big deal and I hope they change their mind by the time the game ships.
Also, excellent article.
Ordeith @ Aug 17th 2009 8:51PM
The delay was caused from all the extra time it took to comment out the LAN play code.
François @ Aug 18th 2009 12:39AM
Cram a ton of people on the same 5meg dsl connection, with half the people playing other games / browsing the internet/ etc, and show me it still works flawlessly through bnet...
Battle.Net has always been for match-making. Once you enter the game, data is transmitted directly between players. If you're on the same LAN, your dsl connection doesn't matter.
But that was the case in my Starcraft I days. For all I know Battle.Net in Starcraft II will bounce your packets off the moon.
Draken Stark @ Aug 20th 2009 2:14AM
I live up in alaska where hi speed internet is at least 90 dollars a month. I would very much screw achievments in order to play a non laggy game with local friends of mine. Seems like I'm totally screwed with my 1.5~0.5 megabit internet.
someone @ Aug 17th 2009 6:29PM
I do have to agree that the no lan sucks, but nowadays I don't have a use for it :( However, I am still gonna get it cause I've enjoyed SC from the moment i was introduced to it way back when.
Now if only Blizzcon would hurry up and start already >.> the anticipation is lame.
Einhanderkiller @ Aug 17th 2009 6:55PM
That was a nice interview.
H.I.M. @ Aug 18th 2009 2:44AM
no
http://bit.ly/1dX5Qt
Kevin Kelly @ Aug 21st 2009 2:25AM
Much, much thanks!
You too, Crusty Magic!
Joystiq Hates MRLN @ Aug 17th 2009 6:57PM
I'm not too excited about paying for Battle.net for LAN, but you still have to buy the game for the single-player. And level-editing side-scrollers.
Squid @ Aug 17th 2009 7:02PM
Since when do you have to pay to play online?
Einhanderkiller @ Aug 17th 2009 7:29PM
The interview said that playing StarCraft 2 online is FREE.
beSt @ Aug 17th 2009 7:43PM
The no LAN isn't a big deal for me as I play over BNet all the time anyways. I can see how it could impact a lot of people though, I remember running 8 player matches in the original game with everyone on dial-up. It wasn't pretty. Hook those same peoples up over a LAN and the performance increase was evident.
But who has dial-up these days anymore anyway right...
Tehman @ Aug 17th 2009 8:17PM
Well you can probably still play the first one for LAN if it's that important.....
R (Planeteers | Power of Penile Pulse) @ Aug 17th 2009 8:24PM
When the crack that comes out that lets me play this w/o Bnet monitoring my every movement (and hopefully adds in LAN play) Blizzard will get some of my money.
Joshua @ Aug 17th 2009 9:59PM
That was a damn good interview for all parties involved. The insight on how such a successful and well-known developer operates on a work-related level is interesting. Also, the questions from Joystiq were both honest and knowledgeable. With the current argument about the quality of gaming journalism such a heated debate, I find it respectable and appreciated that Kevin seems to have a both a personal and professional enthusiasm about the creation and enjoyment of a video game.
I'll be keeping my eye here for more information on Blizzard's next gem.
Kevin Kelly @ Aug 21st 2009 2:22AM
Joshua,
Much thanks! You have no idea how much comments like this keep us going.
RageOverdose @ Aug 18th 2009 12:09AM
LAN is integral part to competition in Starcraft. The removal of it probably has many reasons, and controlling the potential money mine that is Korean Starcraft is probably one of them.
And one issue of it's removal is lag. If you compare LAN to Battle.net, even the lowest latency setting has a noticeable delay compared to LAN (of course, that could JUST be the framework of Battle.net itself). Even in the latency-fixed private servers such as The Abyss (for ICCup players) and the growing SC2GG server, while the lag is better than Blizzard's Battle.net, it still isn't as good as regular old LAN play. And at the level that eSports Starcraft is at, that lag can mean a big difference (these guys time things by the second, so it's a big deal if there is significant delay because they have to use an Internet connection).
But it does suck that Starcraft 2 seems to be pushed further back. I'm not going to say I didn't expect it, since it is Blizzard, but I'm really wanting to get this game asap. The transition will be pretty epic for sure.
RageOverdose @ Aug 18th 2009 12:20AM
I say "seems to be pushed back," since I misread the article like a nub.
I hate it when games I want so bad seem so far away in this plateau we call time.
Zo @ Aug 18th 2009 12:34AM
LAN is important, and it is an opportunity lost
If you live on either the left or right coast, you are spoiled with broadband. According to Washington Post, over 60% of the US does not have access to Broadband. Maybe Blizzard is happy with the whatever they get because it pays the bills.
Also, LAN parties are more social and plenty of people get together to play Xbox and even have game nights.
A simple solution, sell a LAN PACK. A pack of 2 to 4 CDs all bundled together and big time reduced price and have LAN support. This also helps families with multiple people who like to play. Note that both Apple and Microsoft even have Family Packs for the their OS, a LAN PACK would be innovative. Sure, they would sell fewer but that is probably far fewer than would otherwise be pirated. Hey, and guess what -- people who like the game will ecourage others -- and when that expansion pack comes out, more people will purchase it.
There is always a smarter way to go about things....some companies should try that sometime!
SonofSeth @ Aug 18th 2009 4:29AM
CDs?! huh? Why not just ship it on floppy disks and force the install in DOS so the whole redundant package is complete.
DrunkenPandaren @ Aug 18th 2009 12:40AM
What makes Battle.net 2.0 so glorious over such systems already in place like GFWL or Steamworks?
matter3 @ Aug 18th 2009 11:36PM
No lan = no purchase for me