Sony: PS2 back compat not returning to PS3 (ever)

RAGEQUIT!
RAGEQUITING LIFE!

I take it you're not involved in the PS2 emulation scene then.

In short, It's pretty fucking difficult.
And judging from Koller's comments, it seems Sony has found this to be true.

at first it was a useless bluray player which was a dead format

then it was a over priced gaming machine with no games

then it was a overpriced console that had a few good games and bad ports

then it was great gaming machine but too espensive

now... now its a cheap gaming machine with blue ray player capability and great selection of games.... oh and it wont play old PS2 games.

good grif'

I too look forward to emulating PS2 games when I have a computer strong enough, and they perfect the emulation for it 10 years from now. Maybe I'd like to play some ps2 games somewhere in that 10 year gap though?

Luckily I have a 60gb. Most aren't lucky though.

If you want to play PS2 games THAT badly just go buy a PS2. GOD DAMN they're not even £40!

Besides how many PS2 games are you even gonna play? A couple of classics maybe, and then you'll be done. It's not a HUGE deal.

I am lucky to have a PC that is powerful enough to emulate the PS2 as well as the Gamecube and I believe even the Wii.

Now when will PS3/360 emulation be viable on the PC? : )

Why are people seriously defending Sony on this? They just took out a feature on their console that despite what he says, does have value for consumers. I use my Wii to play GameCube games whenever possible and I wish the BC library available on the 360 was much, much bigger to accommodate some of the original Xbox games I do own.

It was included at launch and it was slowly killed off for obvious monetary reasons, except in their favor, not the consumers.

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2008/07/17/sceas-jack-tretton-on-bc-drm-and-home/

If anything, this sounds like Sony smacking you across the face with a newspaper and saying "bad dog!" for even asking to play your older games on their newer consoles. It's not about reducing cost to the consumer, it's about gaining money by selling those (obviously) overpriced PS2s...

I think that for some people back compat is the only reason left to get a PS3. I might miss a couple good platform exclusives, but I've done that at every console generation and so far I haven't died from it or anything serious. The PS2 still lives in my house, and there are no more ports in my home theater to accomodate a PS3 (or any other new HD media sources). I've got a BRD player in my HTPC already. $300, therefore, is still too expensive unless I can replace my aging PS2 slim. Believe me, I want to. I like buying shiny electronics, but I can't swing the new receiver on top of the shiny new PS3 and no back compat means that, at least for me, the purchase won't happen without a better price incentive.

That said, I think Sony is 100% right. The list of people in my situation (or similar) is probably absurdly short. So short that it doesn't really make sense to spend the engineering effort to get people back in with BC.

It's just too bad for me because I want a PS3. :( Maybe I can find something with BC on Craigslist...

If I were to purchase a PS3 again, I want to buy the older models due to them having PS2 b/c, but unfortunately, they are also more likely to receive the YLOD error or have their Blu-Ray drive fail. : (

it's a big deal because i'm too lazy to switch cables everytime i play. it's a nuisance and i don't want my ps3 slim humping the ps2.

i wish sony would just do something like they're doing w/ the pspgo. make the most popular of games available for download via PSN. now only 1) will this boost sales for people that have never played the games, but also allow people with non BC hardware to play. and 2) most importantly allow some type of program where you can send in your original UPC and then get some kind of voucher to re-download the game for 99 cents or something. i'd GLADLY do that w/ killzone, god of war 1 and 2, and all GT3 and 4. as long as they digital copy is mine, and they'll never take it away from me, i'd gladly trade my games for the digi copy just to clear the shelf space.

Then again, you're always gonna have the people who HAVE to have the disc, who swear that in 2017 they're gonna have the sudden urge to take their copy of _____ to their coworkers house to play after work.

BTW once i complete the sale of my 60GB (sold mine, but friend still has to pick it up), i'll never look back. if i ever need a ps2 again, i'll pick up a ps2 slim on craigslist w/ 4 controllers and 8 games for 60 bucks.

My PS2 library is pretty small nowadays and I have a slim model as well, so this won't be *too* big a deal once I pick up a PS3. I couldn't disagree more about the emulating bit, I think playing older console games on a PC is remarkably and utterly shitty. ROMs are ROMarkably stupid (sorry)

@Ignatius

Those of us defending Sony on this do it because those of you criticizing the lack of backwards compatibility mostly were the same people complaining about the price a while back when the unit had it. You want everything but don't want to pay for it.

Of course Sony cut it from the specs to make money. What, did you think Sony (or MS or Nintendo) was producing the PS3 to make you happy? No. They want to make money. And when everyone started bitching about the high cost of the original PS3 which was nothing short of a combined PS2 and PS3 in a single unit they had to find ways to reduce costs and sell more units. Even after they dropped part of the hardware (including half of the PS2 components) and dropped the price to $499 for the 80 gig people still demanded a bigger price drop.

You are even complaining about the lack of games in the 360's backwards compatible library. Do you care to know why? That is a result of software emulation. Each original Xbox game you play in your 360 had a small patch programmed so you could emulate it in the platform. This requires both human and technical resources each time you do it. In other words there are two main reasons you don't have more games being b/c on the 360: cost and usage. There isn't enough people using the 360 to play Xbox games to justify the cost of making them work.

The same happened with the 80gig PS3 that featured many glitches using software b/c. Sony had it right from the get go adding full hardware support but people didn't care about all these extra features (until they lost them). People wanted a cheaper console.

This is not a slap in the face from Sony. This is Sony responding to the wishes of the consumers: they wanted a cheaper unit; they got it. You don't like? Don't get it. You certainly didn't when the PS3 had full backwards compatibility.

@Damon
Coming from a person, who this last week, just bought 5 new PS2 games - I'd like some BC for my PS3. Along with the fact that I've about 10 more PS2 games I've yet to finish, it's a big deal for me.

You forget that the original PS3 also cost as much as the 3DO when it came out and was poised to fail as badly too.

Taking out backwards compatibility wasn't a price issue in the sense that it made the console much more expensive to produce, it was something that was merely tacked on. You also forget that most of the PS2's backwards compatibility work is done. Hell, Europe even has 1,800 of the 2,400 PS2 games available on the software-based backwards compatibility.

It's a feature that is sorely missed in this day and age when people don't have unlimited space or time to fiddle with hooking up consoles because the company that makes them is too finicky to just include something that came with the console right off the bat.

The work is done, it doesn't cost them much to add it, where's the problem?

I have no idea what Tmac and I said to get downvoted, what, console guys don't like PC gamers emulating "their" consoles or something? What's so bad about a 360/PS3 emulator for the PC, its not gonna happen for a long time anyways.

Sony touted backwards compatibility from day one, quite proudly at that. THAT'S the reason for the nerdraging. If they hadn't, or better yet hadn't giveth and taketh, people bitching about it would be a lot less.


Sony should have learned by now that gaming-whores don't forget. Ever.


Besides, have any of you played a PS2 game on a high def set bigger than 32"? It's not pretty. Upscaling helps greatly. Of course, my receiver does a better job than the PS3 did, but it's better than nothing.

Also, to those that laugh at the GINORMORIFICAL amount of QUALITY PS2 games available should go hide some place. Some day, 15 years from now, PS2 games will be ingested like the fine wine of NES/SNES/GEN/ARCADE.

@ Pat

It's within my right as a consumer to complain about whatever the hell I want, in the same way that I can choose not to buy one thing and buy another thing. I'm not even among the people that your comment was directed at, but your whole diatribe about how people complain too much about a product is bullshit and completely condescending.

I reserve the right as a consumer to voice my opinion as to how I think a product should be. Who are you to say that I can't? What the hell is it to you if I want a PS3 that is cheaper AND has backwards compatibility? Sony can't pull it off? Then that's one less sale they've made. Where the hell do you get off telling us that we should stop complaining? Who made you the overseer of my own choices?

Maybe things are different where you're from, but I don't just settle for any product that's placed in front of me, and I sure as fuck don't take what I can get when it comes to making consumers. I demand what I want, and if I don't get exactly that, then I'm not buying. Anything less is pure idiocy at best.

You have had the chance to buy a fully backwards compatible PS3 since launch and one with limited backwards compatibility for the last 2 years or so. Some people will never be pleased with anything regardless of how good a deal it is.

This is all about affordability to the consumers. The 360 arcade proved that features aren't as important as price. They want more people to be able to afford PS3's.

Ignatius @

"You forget that the original PS3 also cost as much as the 3DO when it came out and was poised to fail as badly too."

Not true. Yes, both machines were expensive but a couple of factors prevented the PS3 from going on the same path as the 3DO.

First of all Panasonic was no Sony when they launched the 3DO. They hadn't established a brand or made their name synonymous with video games. They were a new player in an industry dominated by the likes Sega and Nintendo. Suddenly they were coming out with a machine that was expensive, with a small library, and with no recognizable name to back up their position.

Secondly, The 3DO didn't have any added value. It could play games and maybe some music CDs. It wasn't a media center, you couldn't go online, it didn't have a new format of any kind or any added value through Wi Fi connections, media readers, and every other function you could find in any PS3 including b/c.

Third, the market was hugely different. When the 3DO came out mainstream video games were still niche. They were played by very hard core gamers and kids. In a way, they were considered "toys" (and let's not debate whether they were or not- this is about the general perception). A shift was taking place in the market but wasn' there yet for 3DO to come out with such a "mature" system. in 2006 games were, thanks in no small part to Sony itself, the video game business was a massive mainstream industry surpassing the profits made by all Hollywood studios combined. To this effect sales numbers are much different from the early 90's. The PS3 sold over five times in its first year what the 3DO sold in its entire run.

Finally, the Playstation brand. Tied to the first and third points by the time the PS3 was released the PS brand was synonymous with video games. Much like Nintendo, there is no one out there who hasn't heard and doesn't know what Playstaion is, even if they have no idea about the specs of the hardware.

These points alone, among a few others company specific ones, ensured that the PS3 wasn't going to suffer the same fate as the 3DO.

"Taking out backwards compatibility wasn't a price issue in the sense that it made the console much more expensive to produce, it was something that was merely tacked on. "

Incorrect. It made to the cost issue. Of course it wasn't the cause of the entire price of the PS3 but any extra hardware, whether it's the media readers, PS2 chips, wi fi hardware, extra ports, etc, added more and more cost to the production. While the price of the PS2 chips had dropped considerably by the time the PS3 began production Sony still had to produce the chips and pay for them. On the other hand, hardware b/c wasn't "merely tacked on". It was part of the original design announced very early on and following what had been done with the PS2 b/c of PS1 games.

"You also forget that most of the PS2's backwards compatibility work is done. Hell, Europe even has 1,800 of the 2,400 PS2 games available on the software-based backwards compatibility."

The work is not done. The problem is that if you create a single program to run all games you will find most of them will have issues running. This is because, just like the PS3, the PS2 was a specialized machine that had a lot of custom components like the VoPs (think the cores of the Cell for reference) that some developers used while some others didn't know how to tap. Without optimizing the emulator through patching for each game individually many won't run correctly because these extra components aren't being emulated. You can see further proof of this in the list at playstation.blog.com from back when the 80gig PS3 model had software emulation. You have there a long list of games and problems they had running on the PS3. I'm not even sure were you got those figures either. Not nearly as many games were supported while the software b/c was removed. Maybe you are reading games that are running on those systems, but that doesn't mean they run well.

"It's a feature that is sorely missed in this day and age when people don't have unlimited space or time to fiddle with hooking up consoles because the company that makes them is too finicky to just include something that came with the console right off the bat."

No it is not. Do you want that feature? Go get a PS2 Slim. That will fit anywhere. Why should Sony be concerned if you are a tech junkie who wants every piece of hardware out there and have trouble plugging and unplugging cables or running out of space? Their goal if that you buy their console and that it becomes the only one you have, just like MS and Nintendo would like. It's up to you to buy the other consoles or not, and your problem how to make them fit in your space.

"The work is done, it doesn't cost them much to add it, where's the problem?"

Everything that is added or removed is labor and adds cost. And even after it is implemented you need people dedicated to maintain the software (in the case of software b/c), fix glitches on games, make sure to fix bugs each time a new firmware update is rolled out, etc, etc, etc. The work is never done.

Aww man

All right guys, if you want BC, I'll trade you my original 60 GB for a brand new PS3 slim. I'd rather have the bigger hard drive and cooler running temps than BC any day, since I only play current gen games any more, and I have a PS2 in my car if I really need it (also, my favorite PS2 - Amplitude - sucks to play on the PS3 due to the retarded trigger buttons).

I hope this is kosher, but does anyone wanna buy my 60gb PS3? I see so many people saying they want a PS3 with BC. Well, I have one and want to get rid of it. I NEVER play any PS2 games, and I really want a new Slim. If I can break even on this, I'll be happy.

If anyone is interested, email me. snowforts@gmail.com

I have both PS2 and PS1 BC on my PS3 (well all PS3s ever made support PS1 backwards compatibility) and I really never use either of them. It's nice to know its there but really I wouldn't miss it if I got a new $299 Slim.

@Nerdy_Desi (Chin-Poh)

The YLOD as far as I know is because the system overheated. Either the GPU or CPU became separated from the motherboard. In some instances the power supply has been fried. ASFAIK the YLOD has nothing to do with BD drive.

The reason I say this is because it happened to my friends PS3 last week and we fixed it for about $20 instead of the $150 Sony wanted for a repair out of warranty.

We used a couple of Youtube videos so we didn't mess anything up and it worked flawlessly after we fixed it. The hardest part about fixing it is taking it apart and putting it back together again.

The guide we used:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_Ic1_TY-GU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr1zyAGwnuU

Part of the problem in the early models was overheating. We used a Silver thermal glue and not only does it run cooler now but the fans hardly even kick on at all anymore.

I'm not saying it wasn't the BD drive but from what I've seen and read the YLOD is usually due to overheating. Maybe the BD drive fails because of improper ventilation and it's systemic of the system overheating. You can always buy an extended in store warranty (always a good idea with purchases in the $500-$600 range), additional fans / intercooler (the Pelican one thats discontinued is the best for launch models) or as I said at least take it apart yourself and verify that the problem isn't with the CPU/GPU.

"If I were to purchase a PS3 again, I want to buy the older models due to them having PS2 b/c, but unfortunately, they are also more likely to receive the YLOD error or have their Blu-Ray drive fail. : ("

You're an disgrace to Desis all over the world. You should be smarter than that.

Hey Ignatius..

The wii is the gamecube slim, there is practically no difference between a gamecube game and a wii game the major difference is controls, so im not surprised that your playing gc games on your wii.. There is a huge difference between a ps2 game and a ps3 game.

Oh yeah as for Europe, I live in the UK, we were never given full hardware compatibility, its half hardware half emulation and not all of the games work (I think it has the emotion engine) same as the 80 Gig in the US.. It still requires the emotion engine to work, you have completely misunderstood.

Price cut or backwards compatibility ? I think all of you were screaming about a price cut, they have given you a price cut.. No one will pick up a ps3 because they can play ps2 games if you want to play ps2 games save your money and buy a ps2.. Now stop whining and go and find something else to do.

Sony just pissed on my cornflakes!

And now for something completely different

I intend to pick up a PS3 soon, but it absolutely must have backwards compatibility.

So...I won't be buying the Slim.



*samfish must have a console hooked up that can play God Hand and Odin Sphere at all times*

^ Well... considering there are over 6 billion people in the world, I'd say a hell of a lot of people.

*Clutches his 60GB PS3 with the new 500GB HD Protectively* You are an endangered species, but don't worry, I'll keep you safe :(

Congratulations SONY! Three years deep into the lifespan of the PS3....and you just officially lost your first PS4 customer. No backwards compatibility = no more of my money. Not that you seem to care. Nice knowing you...

Im wrong sorry its the Graphics Synthesizer GPU that they have physically in the 80G US and the 60G UK release, the emotion engine has been emulated for a while..

You know why they're saying this? Because if they didn't, people would just hold off buying a PS3 in till it came with PS2 BC. Maybe not the mainstream but def the hardcore.

everyone plz shut the hell up. you are annoying me with all these comments. i've gotten 20 emails from this 1 comment.

Well yeah, obviously YOU would.

I would too!

Seriously. With Backwards Compatibility you get the following:

Upscaled Graphics
Unlimited Memory Cards
WIRELESS CONTROLLERS
Multi-Tap
WiFi

You get these features for free in every backwards-compatible PS3. They are awesome. Atop them, you have one less console under your TV, one less power plug, one less ethernet connection, and one less

Now, some people are gonna go on about how PS3 games are so much better than PS2 games. And I'm gonna call you right there on your BULLSHIT. The PS3 does not play Shadow of the Colossus, or ICO, or Final Fantasy. Old games are still great games, and nobody would buy a DVD player that didn't play Casablanca.

So seriously. Sony fanboys have their head too far up their ass to know what is good for themselves. Stop drinking the purple kool-aid. Loss of backwards compatibility is a bad thing. Buying a PS2 is NOT NEARLY as good as getting true backwards compatibility in the product.

Backwards compatibility kicks ass, and SHOULD be in the PS3. Anyone who says otherwise, is a corporate tool.

I meant to say, with backwards compatibility on a PS3 you have one less console under your TV, one less power plug, one less ethernet connection, one less TV connection used up, and one less set of wired controllers around.

To date, there are 138 million PS2 sold. WHO doesn't have a PS2?

I dont.

But I do have a PSP. Is that good enough?

Neither do I. I was never interested in it.

There are also 5.8 billion other people who don't have one.

word! its still a business at the end of the day.

hell, look at the.. nope, not gonna start that one. :P

well for the simple reason, sell more ps3's, because people will go...
"why not get a ps3 instead, get the good of both worlds in one console"

in all honesty this has pissed me off, if they're not giving us cross game chat and the features people really want instead of pointless things like 'whats new' and 'bubbles in the background on the menu'

i've held onto my ps3 games waiting for this feature, and was hoping to get some of the new releases this year but now i'm going to sell and say bye to the ps2 seeing as they don't want ps3 owners to keep buying ps2 games

or maybe i should just get an xbox seeing as they get all xbox originals.....na i'm alright lol, but still!!

So yeah, xbox originals made so much money that microsoft rolled out the feature for new xbox 360 games. They're risking poor relations with their entire distribution network just to try it out. This feature is worth $$$ for anyone who can get it right.

When it comes right down to it, can you name one single PSN game that would be better than Shadow of the Colossus? Unlikely. I predict the best selling PSN game this year to be... FF7. They would literally be throwing away money by ignoring this revenue source.

they will truly miss your $300.....