Analysts split on chance of slimmer Xbox 360

They just got the hardware working why go through another RROD fiasco again...

@Platinum - those are my thoughts as well. Sony didn't do itself any favors making the new slim so ugly (imo). MS doesn't need to make a slim to compete with it on looks.

For God's sake, the Xbox 360 is 2005 technology. The fail rate should be

Agreed with all. The PS3 was already a very solid device when they decided to slim it down. The 360 is not, and I own one!

Loud as a jet engine, runs hotter than the surface of the sun... I think they need to fix these things before they even BEGIN thinking about a smaller form factor.

For God's sake, the Xbox 360 is 2005 technology. The fail rate should be less-than 1% at this point, and a motherboard revision is overdue. Plus the 2005 WiFi-G dongle should cost $5 max, not $99.

Microsoft is known for being the company that never innovates unless it's forced to by the competition, in this case Nintendo (not Sony), who have "forced" Microsoft to copy features in the form of avatars and motion/waggle controls.

(Damn Engadget, ruining my post over the less-than sign).

I repair xbox 360s, and I can safely say that problems are still abundant with the current hardware configuration. I see just as many consoles from 2008 - 2009 as I do from 2005 - 2006. A new hardware revision is almost certainly on the way. It will very likely be slimmer, better ventilated, and constructed in a manner that doesn't promote failure. It will also be bundled with Natal - remember those rumors that sprang up after $3? A "360 slim" is on the way - for sure.

mike- u know more about repairs than me it sounds... but 1 thing

there are 20 million more xbox 360's in circulation now than there was in 2005-2006.

so you repairing the same number of units in 2009 vs 2006 would not dictate anything about any improvements in the 360 hardware or the total # of crashed units each year.

@Mike:
What the hell? Xbox 360s are STILL failing at this point in time? I thought the Jasper iteration has fixed all those problems?

@Mike. Question is about slim 360 in next 12 month.

What you say make sense, yet, as MS is generally PR/marketing driven company, they would likely launch new console before xmas. IOW, 12 month - next August - is simply wrong point of time to launch anything (or in other words: people coming back from vacations buy less).

Also, new h/w revision - to address problems of current ones - isn't necessary going to be slim. Considering that they have problems with cooling, keeping 360 fat makes more sense for the time being.

Why will it be awhile? How about it will be never ever.

Did MS release an xbox slim? And that box was HUGE!

The form of the 360 represents the whole xbox 360 ideology (remember the J Allard videos before its release?). They are NEVER going to release a 360 slim. This is something that Sony, and only Sony, does.

Did Nintendo release a Gamecube slim? Are they going to release a Wii slim? No, no need to, only the PS3 was ugly.

Slim systems are a gimmick to infuse sales. Nobody is buying a PS3 slim on that alone, they are doing it on 90% price point. The 360 is winning the console war. Reducing price but keeping the system as is makes the most sense. Xbox Live destroys anything the PS3 has (and I own both), so even if PS3 had more killer titles, it just can't compete. Why, if you had both like I do, which many do, would you buy a game on a system that offers less playerbase, and doesn't offer a standardized platform for group management, etc?

Probably so. I learned from reading Joystiq that Microsoft has only sold the XBox 360 to three different customers. Apparently, each customer has replaced their unit 10 million times at retail because RROD is worse than AIDS.

@not me:
I have and it's a group of 16 people. 4 of them actually got RRODs and they were the core of the group, the ones that rally the team and do all sorts of stuff to make things funny, interesting, and dynamic.

They've basically gone back to playing games on the PC and as for how many of them have a PS3, that I'm not so sure on.

I'd have picked up a 360 from one of them but I was in Hong Kong at the time so that wasn't an option for me. Oh well.

ummmmm I think the 80 Million+ people that jumped on the PS2 after the Slim came out would disagree.....

80 Million in one day very impressive, i am sure it had nothing to do with the fact that it was the only PS2 available at retail after its release.

did I say 80+ million in a day?? no I did not....and much like the PS3 now the PS2 Slim phased out the original and it took MONTHS.....

I would personally love it if they rid the power brick and had it INSIDE the xbox 360 but I don't know how that would effect the performance and quality of the 360. If they could pull it off WITHOUT hardware failure, than they have accomplished something big in my opinion. Although a slimmer 360 would be nice, I don't think it would be a good idea for MS to take it on unless they make the following changes (i personally would love this):

Hardware:
Slot load DVD drive
Blu-ray (if they did this, I personally believe it would be bitter-sweet for Sony)
built in wireless
Internal power brick (power supply)

Software:
text Search enabled Netflix
No Welcome screen or xbox page (my gripe)


just my opinion. feel free to agree and disagree.

@trident you know you just basically described a PS3

@commen-cents: Except he didn't say "shitty game library"

@ common

it should be common sense that I am not describing a ps3 on a xbox 360 post. If I wanted to describe a ps3, i would have done so. read all that i post before you comment.

yes indeed shitty games library, so what platform does god of war 3 run on again ? what about Gran Turismo 5 ? heavy rain ? what about uncharted 2 ? infamous maybe ?

yeah thats right I forgot nothing can compare to halo odst, fable 3 and forza pfft..

@trident i read your post, and whether or not you meant to hardware wise you described a PS3, its not my fault you said what you did. i know thats what you think that the 360 should have if redesigned but that machine is already out and its called the PS3. sorry bud, just saying, not trying to be a dick.

@cranium hey you can think whatever you want about the library, the simple truth though is that most people play multi platform games anyway which count for both the 360 and PS3... so unless you only own 360 exclusive games your argument has no weight behind it.

*Flush*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkzA_goSEsA

I don't care much for the workings of electrical, but I don't know what the brick actually does. Does it change the voltage going in to match what the 360 needs? Why didn't any consoles before this generation need them?

powersupply.....

The brick supplies power to the system, as in the Xbox 360 does not have a Power Supply Unit that is internal of the system.

Because Sony waits for production cost to go down, see what the consumer says about the beast we call the PS3, and then pow right in the kisser a slim version that will work fine and all. Microsoft would do it just to be a follower.

ummmm thats like saying "if that TV could have been made smaller 4 years ago then why not do it then?? I dont care if it would have cost an additional $500 to buy it!!"

Thats Technology dude.....get over it....or go live in a cave...

LOL are you serious MS milks you for EVERY damn thing and I mean every damn thing.

Just for the record, my Elite has only had disk drive issues, it was promptly replaced under warranty with a brand new console, I've only seen the RROD once and it never showed up again after just a quick reboot.

For the record, Ignatius, it doesn't matter whether your one 360 has never had a RROD or if it had one for five seconds, then went away. Look at the numbers:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/24/microsoft-responds-to-xbox-360-54-2-percent-failure-rate-report/

I own a Wii and a PS3. I will never buy a 360 because this is what I've been hearing from commenters since discussing the 360 versus the Slim PS3:

"I've exchanged my system four times, so MS's exchange policy is great"

I ask, why would you put up with a system that has failed so many times on you?

The response I have been getting back is that the 360 'experience' is so great that they have to keep coming back for more...

Do you know what that sounds like? A junkee that can't get off his/her fix long enough to see they are getting shafted by a company that is making flea market quality gaming consoles going ON THREE YEARS NOW!

And don't get me started on install base numbers... I've heard people saying that they PURCHASED ANOTHER 360 because they were out of warranty and had games that they needed to play, so how can you expect someone to NOT buy another system when they already have all the hardware???

wiizer: unless you're going to make the argument that people who have bought multiple xbox 360s also buy multiple copies of every game for each one, your argument about install base is moot. xbox 360 versions of multi-platform games outsell their ps3 counterparts by anywhere from 50-100%, every time, every release. if it helps you sleep better at night that the xbox's install base is due to repurchases by the same person, go for it, but the numbers don't lie: there are a greater number of xbox owners out there who buy multiplatform games for their consoles than ps3 owners, and that has nothing to do with RROD or replacements or repurchases.

i'm no fanboy, but i'm just stating the facts. i've been hearing this "of course xbox sells so much, everyone buys 5" argument for long enough and it's absolutely bogus. at some point you have to drop the bitter, petty RROD arguments and acknowledge that the xbox has outsold the ps3 and has a LEGITIMATELY larger install base for the time being. that might change with the ps3 slim, and if so, good for sony, but in the meantime, stop clinging to your warped fanboy arguments.

"your argument about install base is moot. xbox 360 versions of multi-platform games outsell their ps3 counterparts by anywhere from 50-100%, every time, every release."

Not every time (e.g. SFIV), but you make a fair point anyway.

"Do you know what that sounds like? A junkee that can't get off his/her fix long enough to see they are getting shafted by a company that is making flea market quality gaming consoles going ON THREE YEARS NOW!"

And you just sound like a rabid dog who continues to lose credibility every time you go on one of your asinine anti-360 rants with the 'durr I can't understand why anyone would buy a 360!!!!' nonsense.

Hi, my name is Markez, and I like videogames.

@ Vidikron: That's absolutely not true.

February 2009 NPD U.S. Sales Charts: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22830

and even though SFIV had slipped out of the top 10 in March, if you look at the top 20 for that month, you see the same thing: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/04/march-2009s-top/

There were some articles that said that in its first week SFIV sold more on PS3 than XBOX......in Japan, which is no surprise. But I think it's safe to say that we're talking about U.S. install base here.

protofunc, there are people out there that aren't even aware of this issue and there are those that act like it's not a big deal.

It is. Why? Because if MS is rewarded for conducting business like this, we all lose.

You said 50-100%, that shows a 10% advantage in the US market. And I believe worldwide the difference is smaller... and the PS3 version may even be ahead, but I'm not positive on that. So, yes, that's true.

David,

You totally missed my point.

In fact, I agree with you about software numbers.

How can anyone be expected not to buy another 360 when they've already purchased all the games for it?

Holy crap, spam my inbox with your arguments, why don't you? :P

No, Wiizer, the problem is that you made more than one point, and a few of them don't make any sense. If you want to point out that it's ludicrous that some people go out and buy 5 Xbox 360s because of hardware failure, that's fine. I actually agree with you: that's absolutely ridiculous and MS should be ashamed of how poorly they've built their hardware.

The problem is when you and other Sony fanboys try to extend that observation and claim that multiple purchases account for the greater sales of the XBOX console and its larger install base. This argument isn't rationale and you have no evidence to back it up. If you read the Joystiq forums, of course it's going to seem like 90% of XBOX owners had a bricked console. But the forums are hardly representative of the majority of people who own XBOX consoles. In fact, that's exactly the problem with the Game Informer article that you cited above.

Let me introduce you to a concept known as self-report bias. It's an incredibly important concept in research and surveys, but also important to understand how easily truth can be warped. Let's say you release a product, and 1000 people buy it. Let's say that 100 of those products break (10% actual failure rate). Now let's say that you send out surveys to all those people in the mail, essentially giving every person who bought the product the choice to report their satisfaction or not. It's well documented that people who have a problem with their product tend to report their dissatisfaction more often, whereas people who are satisfied tend not to report it....this what I mean by self-report bias. That means that, in all likelihood, the majority of the 100 people with faulty products are going to reply to the survey, while a significantly less proportion of the people who are satisfied are not. So, let's say that 90 of the people who were dissatisfied respond, and 200 of the satisfied people respond. The rest don't respond because they didn't feel like it, and among people with no problems to report, that's pretty common. That means that, according to this survey, the product had a 45% failure rate, which obviously is not true.

Remember that Game Informer article that you cited? That's exactly what they did. They sent out 5,000 survey requests to people and gave them the choice to respond or not. This is a horrendous way to conduct a survey, because anyone who knows anything about research can tell you that the people who are pissed off are far more likely to participate than people who are satisfied. So I'm skeptical of their number, not because I'm a fanboy or because I don't want to believe it, but because I want the truth and I don't think Game Informer attained it. And if you give a crap about the truth, you'll stop citing that article over and over again, unless you WANT to spread half-truths around. Which, being a sony fanboy, I suppose you might.

Again, I'm not making excuses for MS. In another study, MS conducted a survey with a randomly-sampled population (in order to correct for self-report bias, you 1) randomly sample your population and 2) put the survey out in such a way that most everyone will respond) and found the failure rate to be around 33%. That's a number I'm inclined to believe (and that's still an unforgivable failure rate), and if you want to post that survey all over of the internet, feel free. My problem is when you and other fanboys without a lick of reasoning start assuming that the XBOX is doing so well because a few people on the Joystiq forums said that they bought multiple consoles. That argument doesn't hold up and it just contributes to the pointlessly inflamed console wars. Your continued peddling of that flawed Game Informer article doesn't really help either.

Sometimes I get fed up with the fanboy-isms and feel that SOMEONE has to speak up to cut through the bullshit.