Digital Foundry examines why 360 and PS3 can't take the heat

by Justin McElroy { Aug 31st 2009 at 10:50AM }

You could make the argument that system reliability has been the preeminent conversation of this console generation, but it's one often clouded by speculation and a lack of reliable information. Digital Foundry talked to Darren Thickbroom, an engineer for an independent console workshop, who offered a lot of revealing insight into the issue.

Thickbroom explained that the massive amount of heat generated by the HD systems -- exacerbated by high-end technology crammed into a small compartment -- contribute to their eventual demise (and all because you played on them so often). And like many "exclusive" games this generation, this is by no means constrained to one console. Though Xbox 360 failure rates are abysmal, Thickbroom noted that more PS3s have been appearing in his workshop. His gloomy prognosis? "It comes down to how much you play it. People might disagree with us, but this is the way we see it: if you handle the machines day-in, day-out with the issues they've got, I'd expect to change them every year."

We have the same rule for our underwear, so that part should be easy to remember.

Tags: console-failure, e74, failure-rate, rrod, ylod

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

Naturette @ Aug 31st 2009 10:54AM

sooo true!

Rein [Prime Minister of the city-state of New Bjork] @ Aug 31st 2009 10:57AM

I'm Mister Green Christmas, I'm Mister Sun. I'm Mister Heat Blister, I'm Mister One Hundred and One~~~

Frakking love that movie.

On topic: I hope the next generation of consoles learn from this generation's mistakes and are able to run with less problems/cooler temp. I miss the days of being able to play my PS2/Gamecube for zillions of hours at a time and not have any adverse effects (that I was aware of) to the console.

mr nimblewick @ Aug 31st 2009 10:59AM

Don't worry, Sony and Microsoft will take the Wii route next generation. Smaller, more efficient system with a small power boost, motion controllers included.

johnnynumber5 @ Aug 31st 2009 11:26AM

Why is it that the Wii fanboys continue to beat that point to death? There isn't anything to suggest that Sony & Microsoft will offer a marginal upgrade of their current offerings next generation. I think a more likely scenario is that Nintendo will actually have a software suite on par with the HD consoles ... you know being able to launch system wide updates. The one thing the Wii is not is future proof.

Jack_Jackington @ Aug 31st 2009 11:27AM

They call me Heat Meister
Whatever I touch
starts to melt in my clutch
I'm too much

is that how it goes?

B-real206 @ Aug 31st 2009 10:58AM

Good thing I got a 3 year warranty for my ps3 I play that beast all the time!

whylekat @ Aug 31st 2009 11:01AM

Same for me an my 360. It's on like 8 hrs a
day, sometimes... Most times longer.

dherasa @ Aug 31st 2009 11:18AM

@whylekat ``Same for me an my 360. It's on like 8 hrs a
day, sometimes... Most times longer. ``

If you play 8 hours a day, I have a friend who sells life, so I can let him knwo so that you get a life at a low price. buy one life get th eother one free.

Jack_Jackington @ Aug 31st 2009 11:29AM

dherasa, that was almost funny. funny idea but bad delivery. Grade = D+

whylekat @ Aug 31st 2009 11:37AM

I believe I said it's ON for 8 hrs a day.. Not I PLAY 8 hrs a day. I don't watch TV on the regular, just movies. So between gaming, netflix, downloaded videos or simple neglect to turn it off.. My 360 is on from about 7pm when I get home till the next morning when I turn it off before work. I often fall asleep to a movie streaming off netflix.

Geez, ya jerks.

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:39AM

ummm dude he can have it on 8hours a day and not be playing a thing....my PS3 use to be on 24Hrs a day for over a year straight.....

Ghen @ Aug 31st 2009 11:57AM

Don't worry Whyle, most of us understand... It's just the emo kids that feel the need to bash others.

Between my wife watching CSI on netflix and myself playing games non-stop, my xbox is due for a red ring any day now.

Bill$ @ Aug 31st 2009 4:57PM

im right there with you Chris.. my ps3 is on for 14hrs a day for a year now ( :( recession ).. im still anticipating failure..but then again im not an idiot and know how to vent my ps3. i assume you do the same

Shadow Hog @ Aug 31st 2009 10:58AM

Clearly, then, they need to get Snow Miser to help them out. It's not like he and his brother aren't already always at odds over silly things like this.

DeMerch @ Aug 31st 2009 11:00AM

"We have the same rule for our underwear, so that part should be easy to remember."

And I shall now forever associate Joystiq writers with this guy.

http://fuzzybuzz.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/southpark.jpg

whylekat @ Aug 31st 2009 11:03AM

"You need the Sword of 1000 Truths!"

best episode ever!

Next to Scott Tennorman Must Die of course.

Reuben @ Aug 31st 2009 11:15AM

Scott Tenoman Must Die is a masterpiece.

BigD145 @ Aug 31st 2009 12:43PM

They all pale in comparison to Critter Christmas.

Nebenator @ Aug 31st 2009 1:33PM

I still love the original manbearpig episode

Space @ Aug 31st 2009 11:02AM

Thickbroom?

Caharry @ Aug 31st 2009 11:27AM

Guybrush Threepwood?

Zoot Suit Jedi @ Aug 31st 2009 12:23PM

That's what she said.

Wiizer ($299) Having BC On Your Launch Console? (Priceless) @ Aug 31st 2009 11:02AM

I have played my PS3 every week since launch, and no issues. Since Thickbroom is throwing around opinions, I'd like to offer one:

The issue for ALL electronics this generation is heat! Laptops, iPhones, they all get hot...

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:28AM

yea they all do....its just the way they HANDLE the heat....My PS3 lately has been kicking it off like nobodies buisness....I hope the fan doesnt give out....

johnnynumber5 @ Aug 31st 2009 12:07PM

I have a very hard time believing that the failure rates of the 360 and PS3 are similar. There is some truth to the statement that launch model PS3's can suffer from overheating issues. But, is it within the acceptable failure rate for electronics or is it on the same level of the 360's widespread and well documented failure issues? I don't think anyone will truly ever know the answer because neither Microsoft nor Sony have been forthcoming with their internal warranty and repair statistics.

sc00by_y00 @ Aug 31st 2009 6:19PM

If the ps3 failure rate was anywhere near the 360 it would have been recalled and at the very least would have had has its warranty increased to 3 yrs like MS.

There is no way the ps3 has suffered any where near the same failure rate, ill let the pictures do the explaining

ps3 (original) cooling:
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_25.jpg
pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_26.jpg
pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_27.jpg
pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_28.jpg
pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_29.jpg

xbox360 cooling:
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/no_cov.jpg
images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/therm_removed.jpg
images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/heatpipeHS.jpg
images.anandtech.com/reviews/system/microsoft/xbox360/backplates.jpg

They say 1 picture is worth a thousand words that should be equivalent to a 9000 word essay explaining why the 360 cooling solution sucks..

Wiizer ($299) Having BC On Your Launch Console? (Priceless) @ Aug 31st 2009 6:22PM

sc00by_y00 , you're the best. I so need to do research like this!

sc00by_y00 @ Aug 31st 2009 7:51PM

thanks wiizer, but the researcher is google, I cant take the credit lol.

I was trying to find the site that joystiq used to give the exploded outlay of the ps3 slim, couldnt be bothered to go back through the articles though, they should have some really nice exploded views of the 360 and ps3 original as well thought the slim was very nicely done.

rruss79 @ Aug 31st 2009 11:02AM

Well I will say that my 60GB PS3 is still running strong but then again, I do not run it nearly as much as my 20GB 360 which RROD for the 2nd time on me in 3 years. I will say that my 60GB PS3 sounds like the 360 now when the fans are blowing after 20 mins of use and I hope I am not getting to the failure time for it.

giesen2 @ Aug 31st 2009 11:03AM

There is definitely some level of truth to PS3 failures...

But Digital Foundry has always had a very heavy handed agenda. They aren't even remotely objective or neutral on this.

sc00by_y00 @ Aug 31st 2009 7:13PM

I read through it and now feel dumber for reading through it and I feel even dumber for reading some of the comments that accompanied the article, to quote one:

--------QUOTE ------------------

Moz says:

"A little missleading on the PS3/360 comparison - of course an independent repairer is going to see more PS3's then 360s as most 360s get reapired by the 3 year warrenty."

Not really. 360s are generally older. Those that aren't being repaired under warranty, are most likely modded consoles. RROD machines will be repaired under the three year warranty.

The PS3, being younger, will have a high percentage being repaired under the 12 months warranty.

The fact that this shop sees a 60/40 split says volumes about the real problems out there, for BOTH consoles.

"If PS3 failures really were similar to 360 then there would be more people complaining about it. "

Two points:

1) PS3 fans are much more vocal on this issue. RROD is used by them as a rallying call, brought up in every single fanboy battle. Yet they are very quiet on PS3 failures.

2) Google "PS3 failure". You'll find a LOT of people complaining about their PS3 dying for one reason or another. And many of them are out of warranty, with the owners finding that they're up for some very high servicing costs.

-------END QUOTE ---------------

From some guy called womble,

According to this guy, we the consumer that are happy with our ps3's are willing to cover up the fact that our ps3 are yloding left right and center like this article is trying to claim so that we can claim the ps3 has less of a failure rate.. Now I dont know about you but that has to be the most retarded comment I have heard so far, that right there is called complete bullshit.

If my ps3 had issues and it died within 3 years of buying it, I wouldn't want to pay for it to be repaired it was a £500 console you retard, I may be a fan of the ps3 but I am first and foremost a fan of my wallet and my hard earned money..

Wow just wow the article once again shows just how pathetic eurogamer really is..

I know the ps3 isnt 100% reliable, but considering the components get just as hot as a 360 if not hotter its a run away success story compared to the 360.

rruss79 @ Aug 31st 2009 11:04AM

@Wiizer
DId you read the whole article or are you going by the quote. RTFA for win before you start to look stupid.

Wiizer ($299) Having BC On Your Launch Console? (Priceless) @ Aug 31st 2009 11:06AM

Reply fails... I love them when they don't happen to me.

Candlejack @ Aug 31st 2009 11:10AM

I lol'd so hard at that image.

Hyams @ Aug 31st 2009 11:12AM

In before "Wii's aren't breaking because no one plays them."

(You all know someone's gonna say that. My money's on tmac.)

Wiizer ($299) Having BC On Your Launch Console? (Priceless) @ Aug 31st 2009 11:15AM

Oh, no. He'd be more like:

"JRPG's aren't breaking because no one plays them."

OR

"Games that aren't Dark Cloud 3 aren't breaking because no one plays them."

fikhl @ Aug 31st 2009 7:01PM

Wish I could uprank you a billion times my friend...

Already done 3, on my desktop, Aspire One, phone.

Preston @ Aug 31st 2009 11:16AM

Wait wait wait. You're telling us that too much heat can damage electronics? SURELY such a thing is impossible!

Akronon @ Aug 31st 2009 12:25PM

Anything is possible. And don't call me Shirley.

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:20AM

with the rash of 60GB PS3's getting YLoD the last 6 months I'd have to agree...makes me kind of glad that I didnt get a launch system and got eh 80GB motorstorm bundle....I mean I left my system on for a year straight aside from the restarts for the firmware updates and its still going strong....I mean I turn it off now that its out of warranty tho but its still doing good....I just hope Sony makes it so you can restore a backup from one system to another because if mine eventually kicks it I will lose locked gamesaves as well as have to redownload EVERYTHING from PSN....reinstall Disc games that I still play....it would be too much to go thru

dogmaticatheist @ Aug 31st 2009 11:27AM

> with the rash of 60GB PS3's getting YLoD the last 6 months I'd have to agree

Evidence? Anecdotal evidence is not acceptable, so please no "I know 3 people with 60GB that YLOD" stories.

LegendaryRedass @ Aug 31st 2009 11:32AM

You can copy from your ps3 to an external drive. Or if your ps3 breaks, you can take out the hardrive if it's salvagable. I'm planning on replacing mine eventually. I've only got a 40 gig.

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:33AM

3 people??

Nah see there is a gaming community that I am a part of....VGEvo.com....a LOT of the guys there have launch model PS3s....and I'd say that starting since like February one after one would fail....over 30 people...one guy has 2 60GB models and both went.....ok sure thats no a LOT of people sure....but then I move over the the official PS Forums....and SHITLOADS of people there started to have to same issues around the same time.....starting from actually around last summer.....and these were NOT "N00Bs" they were guys that have been on PlayStation underground since '05 or before and had the post count to back up they werent just some lying trolls....my point is this....the shit happens a lot more than people know....I mean its not as high as the 360 numbers but it does happen....

Mr. Manly ESC Mcbeefington Ferguson The Second @ Aug 31st 2009 11:35AM

The problem I have with the Playstation 3 is with the included HDMI cable,it acts funny from time to time and the screen goes black for about 3 seconds at random like every 1 hour,once it went black for 1 minute during a KZ2 match.

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:36AM

@legendary...I KNOW you can copy to an external HDD....but I only do actual backups for the most part.....my problem with copying is some Game Saves are LOCKED to the PS3 which means you cant just COPY them....the only way to back those up is via the Backup utility and that in itself is useless when your system dies and you send it back to Sony for repair only for them to send you a refurb which that backup wont even work on.....I have a 320GB HDD in mine now(about to upgrade to a 500GB since I only have 60GBs left...)

Chris D.(PSN: Aggie_CEO | XBL:The Aggie CEO | Steam: Aggie_CEO @ Aug 31st 2009 11:37AM

@Mr. Manly....included HDMI Cable??

Mr. Manly ESC Mcbeefington Ferguson The Second @ Aug 31st 2009 11:42AM

I gotthe Little Big Planet Bundle and it included a HDMI cable.I should've waited for the InFamous bundle instead and bought LBP GOTY version.

LegendaryRedass @ Aug 31st 2009 11:46AM

Locked saves? That's weak. So not all games have that, only some? Damn, I guess my advice was totally useless.

johnnynumber5 @ Aug 31st 2009 11:47AM

@MR.ESC

My 360 used to do that all the time. It was the weirdest thing because the screen would just flash black for like 1-1.5 seconds at a time. It hasn't happened on the PS3 but was a constant with my 360. I thought it was an issue with my TV and never heard anyone else say they had the same problem.