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Reader Comments (78)

Posted: Sep 20th 2009 11:56AM (Unverified) said

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True, but Japan's population is a lot smaller than USA and Europe. A hit in Japan doesn't make as much money as a hit abroad
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 1:10PM Burgerz said

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Dynasty Warrior games are HORRIBLE. Walking around while continuously pressing the X or O button is all it's about, and each sequel has the EXACT SAME THING. Of course there games aren't selling

And as far as Square Enix's games go, maybe if the released some games for pc and ps3 (I know madness eh? It's like people never use these) and actually ADVERTISED there games like they do in Japan (The put up a giant poster every 2km for god sake) maybe you would have better sales.

Well time to stop ranting and go back to sleep

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 1:46PM kevin949 said

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I don't know about you, but I've thoroughly enjoyed crushing the yellow turbian rebellion for the umpteenth time now!
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 1:32PM (Unverified) said

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Die dickhead!

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 1:51PM (Unverified) said

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I would have bought Fatal Inertia if it hadn't been terrible. Sadly there aren't too many futuristic racing games around any more. Someone needs to bring X-Treme G back from the dead.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:39PM kevin949 said

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fisheye mode FTW! Played that game drunk as hell on fisheye mode one time. That was a trip.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 1:53PM DBuckEye said

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I'd buy a new Tecmo Super Bowl. For consoles.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 2:29PM (Unverified) said

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The western world is craving a BG2'esque game. So my free advice to a japanese developer interested in cashing in the big dollars, would be to do a western-style CRPG in the vein of Baldur's Gate 2/Torment, but with a japanese setting.

Just hold off of the blue spikey hair, unrealisticly large eyes, cute animal companions and all the other pop-culture crap that no-one in the western world will ever accept.

Bioware built a friggin' empire on that basic design, and then abandonded it.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 2:01PM Special Agent Steve said

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I think you mean:
DIE VAGINA HEAD!

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 2:32PM zsavior said

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They need to stop focusing so hard on "pleasing" audiences and release well thought out games that made these companies the powerhouses they were. Just cause it is popular to have a certain theme in a game, examples aliens, soldiers. shooters doesn't mean that would work.

That tactic is no different than Dynasty warriors, and rehash FF games. The problem is two fold, one Japanese developers used to be fine with creating just for japan, gaming wasn't as big thus the market revolved around them. In return gamers clamored for their offerings, second problem is Japanese houses used to ACTUALLY put out games. Not videos to games that may come out sometime down the line after you feel you have done enough.

I still love the Japanese RPG and so do many others. Nobody fits their idea of what men look like but neither does anybody fit Marcus fenix. What they have to do is start putting out different ideas BEYOND handhelds, bring out actually good games that are well thought out and epic. Second they need to start creating the strange weird games that Japan was known for instead of just trying to cater to what is in with the "hardcore" gamer. Get back to making games instead of progressing franchises and they will be money all over again.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:00PM Misanthropic Gamer said

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It's because they make such terrible games. I can't name even one of their titles that I enjoyed. They develop the sort of crap that could only appeal to rabid anime fanboys with poor taste. We have them here, but the majority of them reside in Japan, hence the 8% statistic. Don't even get me started on Dynasty Warriors. It's a wonder they haven't already gone bankrupt when their flagship series has been mediocre from the outset and becomes steadily worse with every sequel.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:03PM Misanthropic Gamer said

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It's because they make such terrible games. I can't name even one of their titles that I enjoyed. They develop the sort of crap that could only appeal to rabid anime fanboys with poor taste. We have them here, but the majority of them reside in Japan, hence the 8% statistic. Don't even get me started on Dynasty Warriors. It's a wonder they haven't already gone bankrupt when their flagship series has been mediocre from the outset and becomes steadily worse with every sequel.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:05PM Gnoll said

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Why do people complain about games like Madden and Dynasty Warriors coming out with similar games all the time? Here's the thing: these companies aren't expecting you to buy every single one. Say you bought the first Dynasty Warriors and haven't played it for years. Wouldn't it be nice to revisit with the latest one? The new versions are for either the hardcore fans that don't care about them being the same or for someone who is just getting into the series. By releasing them constantly, you've constantly got everyone covered--new and old fans. Everyone needs to stop acting like these companies are ripping you off, not every individual is supposed to buy every single one, it's a great strategy for getting new people into the franchise. People are usually more interested in buying new games compared to ones that are a few years old. By releasing a new Madden or DW, you keep yourself on the shelf of new releases instead of being in the PS2 bargain bin. It's a great sales tactic that people need to stop whining about.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:08PM Jacksons said

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I'm not a big hack and slash fan. That pretty much rules out 90% of their games right there.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:10PM Gnoll said

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Uh, no? Most of their games are strategy games. Romance of the Three Kingdoms has more games than Dynasty Warriors, and that doesn't count in Kessen and Dynasty Tactics and things like Gitaroo-Man. I would say hack n slash is less than half.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 3:15PM Mr Khan said

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But when they try and focus on Western demographics as something fundamentally different, it always ends up sucking. Like the "horror game in name only" that was Resident Evil 5, or this Nier crap that Square Enix is trying to push.

Strangely, they have quite a few games that have elements that Westerners have proven to enjoy. The Crystal Bearers, for instance, seems to be an open-world game with a combat element very similar to BioShock, both of which seem to have caught on in the past over here.

Obviously we're talking about the worst offenders for making Japanese games to appeal to the Japanese. Many of their companies still make games that have great appeal across both, like Capcom (even though Capcom's been sliding into the "must appeal to westerners" mentality), and SEGA (though their docket has been diversifying), Sony's Japanese studios, and Nintendo.

Posted: Sep 19th 2009 4:24PM (Unverified) said

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I think one of the key points you're missing is that that game is bland as fuck. Bioshock did well because the environment was richly detailed and had character. Looking at Crystal Bearers and other Japanese RPG's game play makes me want to fall asleep just watching. The worlds are bland and have very little personality. Shin Megami Tensei is a notable exception to this. All Japanese developers could stand to learn a thing or two about crafting rich worlds from Atlus.

Not to mention Crystal Bearers is on the Wii which already drags down its ability to fully realize a developer's vision. And before you down vote me for speaking ill of the Wii, imagine Bioshock on the Wii. I thought so.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 5:12PM Mr Khan said

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The Crystal Bearers is quite colorful, non-bland in its own way, but that's the fun of opinions. I associate bland generally with Western games by default, stuck in their constant attempts to render a darker and more sombre version of the real world, you seem to do so with Japanese games

And no, BioShock wouldn't have been significantly worse on Wii. Wii does atmosphere quite well, when developers properly apply it. Look to Silent Hill, or Metroid Prime 3. The problem with Wii is as much developer laziness as it is hardware.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 5:23PM (Unverified) said

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It's not opinion it's fact. There are bland and completely reused textures in Crystal Bearers. I understand the vision the developer wants to go for but as far as I can see they have failed miserably. What Bioshock did well was create a world based in a past decade and put it undersea in a place away from the world. Your sickening generalizations of western game development aside, I think you'd enjoy Bioshock much more than Crystal Bearers if you truly looked at what was in front you.

Also one of the most intriguing atmospheric elements of Bioshock was the water and the undersea setting in general. I'd even go so far as to say that the idea of putting Bioshock on the Wii is laughable at best and woefully misguided at worst. Wii games should be focused on innovative control schemes (read:adding superfluous waggle effects)and on crafting engaging worlds without the aid of technology from the past 8 years (read:terribly uninviting graphics and using symbols over characters' heads instead of having them show real facial emotion).
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 7:47PM zsavior said

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You know whats Funny When Danny makes a generalization of Japanese games "it isn't opinion it is fact". When Mr Kahn gives an opinion on what he sees in western games it is a "sickening generalization of western games".

And that is why we can't have nice things. BUT before I get flamed. Lets see if I can't find some middle ground.

This is Gametrailer's review of Wet, stylized Western oriented game made by Bethesda

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-wet/56255

The next is Muramasa Demon Blade review from gametrailers made by Vanillaware

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/review-hd-muramasa-the/55698?type=flv

see how each does style and color to enhance the game, then see why calling your opinion about japanese games '"fact" and calling another persons opinion about western games a "sicken generalization" FLAWED! Enjoy
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 8:27PM Mr Khan said

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So you're yet another anti-Wii troll, then?

Line's over there, my friend. You'll have to wait your turn.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 11:07PM samfish said

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Holy cats, we might have the dumbest Wii troll on Joystiq in some number of months here.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2009 11:10PM Gaming Expert said

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I hate Japanese games cause they lack gameplay, I not an uber FPS fan either, they've focused far too much on telling stories and very little (or none at all) on game play mechanics. I now avoid Japanese games like the plague cause I can't stand the repetitive excuse for gameplay, if I want to watch a movie (AKA JRPGs) I go to blockbusters or something similar but if I want to play a game I go to EB games. A side from a few Nintendo exclusives the Japanese don't understand gameplay. I once heard the Japanese think western games are too stressful but I don't have to repeat the same fucking part 1000 times over because of "gameplay mechanics" based nearly entirely on chance. I look forward to the end of the Japanese "game" market (Nintendo can live cause they understand gameplay) and the continued rule of western games (AKA not just the USA).

Posted: Sep 20th 2009 12:55PM samfish said

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Erm...do you not know what gameplay is?
The Japanese are the ONLY ones who evolve gameplay continually. It's the western studios who are hellbent on turning games into interactive movies.
Granted, the Japanese, in particular with JRPGs (and Kojima lol), have a thing for long cut scenes... but that's irrelevant. The western studios are the ones who sacrifice and ignore gameplay mechanics in order to tell a better story.

Think about it...when was the last time there was ANY sort of significant evolution (or revolution) in a FPS? Halo and it's regenerative health and limited weapon capacity? Halo is now about 9 years old and frankly, that barely counts, IMO.

Meanwhile, the Japanese are the ones coming up with games like Viewtiful Joe, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Resident Evil 4 (and 5, I suppose..), God Hand, No More Heroes, MadWorld, Klonoa, Zelda, Mario, Okami, Pikmin...

Compare that to something like, say, GTA. GTA is another game that people deal with because they love it for the story and overall experience, in spite of it's unpolished gameplay and, in particular, controls (which is one of the most crucial elements to gameplay, I'd say).

Heck, even when western studios make games in the same genre, the difference in gameplay and gameplay mechanics are night and day.
Compare everyone's favorite platformer made by a western studio, Psychonauts to ANY Japanese platformer. Personally, I hate Psychonauts. In part because it has terrible gameplay. Heap all the praise you want on the game and I'll actually agree with you (to an extent) from looking at it from an unbiased viewpoint. But the actual act of playing Psychonauts compared to, say, Mario?
It's night and day, dude.

Or compare Beyond Good & Evil to Zelda or Okami. All good games, but, like Psychonauts, BG&E isn't exactly getting praised for things like it's combat system or gameplay. Like Psychonauts, it gets it's praise based primarily on the strength of it's story telling and immersiveness.

There are some western studios that definitely understand the importance of gameplay and gameplay mechanics. Naughty Dog, Insomniac and (maybe still) Rare. But what those studios excel at more than anything is actually taking tired and true gameplay and polishing them up to perfection and maybe putting a slightly new spin on them. They aren't exactly reinventing the wheel, though.
The Japanese are much, much more likely to do that.

The reason the Japanese put SO much more emphasis on gameplay compared to western studios is in large part because of the continuing strength of the arcade culture in Japan. Arcade games HAVE to have strong gameplay and creative mechanics because they don't have much time to tell you some stupid, epic story. They're meant to keep you playing and continually popping in ¥100 or so every few minutes. The only way to do that is if it's damn fun to just play with, almost like a toy.
Western studios, especially today, are mostly people who came up making games on PC and have only in the last few years really started to transition to consoles. It's just a completely different mindset.

So yeah...that's my thesis on gameplay. I'd REALLY like to know more why you think the Japanese ignore gameplay when that completely does not square with reality, IMO.
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Posted: Sep 20th 2009 1:43PM ShirowShirow said

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I didn't realize that the gap was so huge. Guess people in the western side are getting tired of anime-style character design. Anything that's not smeared brown and grey isn't cool enough, i guess...

Posted: Sep 20th 2009 1:51PM chrisredfield31 said

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I'm gonna get straight to the point. The reason why these games are not selling is because they are sub-par. Not fit for consumption by the masses. Yes it may appeal to a select few, but not everyone. They need to stop making shitty games like Last Remnant, Undiscovery and so on/so forth and start putting out some quality titles that people can actually play.

Posted: Sep 20th 2009 3:58PM wcarnation said

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I do love that the people complaining about Dynasty Warriors being "too much of the same" are the same people that will buy the next Call of Duty.

Try the Empires releases, Dynasty Warriors 6 and especially the Warriors Orochi series.

Koei also makes the Romance of the Three Kingdoms strategy game series, which is quite engaging.

Posted: Sep 21st 2009 1:56AM garnsr said

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I enjoyed Samurai Warriors, but haven't gotten any Koei games since. I haven't played Final Fantasy since VIII, but I've gotten all the rereleased Dragon Warrior games, which are still Enix games to me, no Square involved. I loved Japanese games, and RPGs in particular, in the 8 and 16 bit days, but have fallen off since. I don't even know how many of my PS3 games are Japanese, but I'd be surprised if it's more than 10 percent.

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