Rumor: Activision pulls Wolfenstein in Germany over swastika use

Well, when you are labeled as the greatest genocidal culture in human history, you would be a little antsy to reject relics of said events too.

I don’t recall the Nazis ever dropping a nuke…

I'd say the union jack has darker history.

Dropping a nuke has nothing to do with genocide, dipshit. The firebombing of Dresden killed more people than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined, so regardless what you may think inside your uninformed little bubble, dropping a nuke isn't the worst-case scenario for killing people that you'd like to think it is.

I don't recall the nuke specifically targeting specific ethnic minorities in a terrifyingly well-organized death camp system either (no, the Japanese don't count as an ethnic minority in Japan). Argue the ethics of Hiroshima and Nagasaki all you want, they weren't anywhere near the level of evil seen in the Holocaust.

Congrats John Drinkwater, you've become "Dip Shit of the Day", what an honor!

I hope you never have to even imagine what the people went through in Germany, France, and Poland. If you can even slightly compare that to the nukes in Japan, you truly deserve this title. Heck, change it to "the Year". There ya go, that suits you.

"Well, when you are labeled as the greatest genocidal culture in human history, you would be a little antsy to reject relics of said events too."
It is interesting how little people know about history nowadays. Nazi's concentration camps lasted like what, 7 years at most. Well guess what, in the USSR since its beginnings people were dying in the Siberian concentration camps for more than 40 years, talk about genocide. No fair trial and no way out.

@+SAM+: Yes. That is why they are known for their piss and shit porn movies.

Right.

@Everyone else trying to use the Nuke argument: It's easy for you to sit at your cozy computer and criticize actions that took place over 60 years ago, well before your time, in conditions you have never even been close to being in or understanding. So do everyone a favour and shut the fuck up.

@Konstantin

If a lot of people simply *think* you instigated the worst genocide in history (the holocaust), that's really all that matters.

Oftentimes, spin has more weight that fact regardless of truth.

John Drinkwater @ Sep 23rd 2009 10:17AM
"I don’t recall the Nazis ever dropping a nuke…"

There it is - the dumbest historical comment I have read in years. You sir are a total moron if you think the bombs came close to what the Nazi regime did. The bombs were also estimated to have saved countless lives by preventing the need for a total invasion, which would have devastated that country far beyond those two cities.

Also, Konstantin, you are right - what happened under the Soviet regime was far worse in amount of people killed, but the Russian people are not regarded as "the greatest genocidal culture in human history" as it was put. Their people were largely separated in blame from the Kremlin, which for better or worse was not how the world looked at Germany after the 2nd WW. (Don't assume people know nothing of history just because they didn't raise an off topic fact.)

I like how some of you act as if dropping the Nuke...(even though Japan was about to surrender) was an OK action.

Sure it isn't genocide, but completely destroying thousands of lives. (radiation slowly killed many)

Neither action is justified or will ever be moral, so stop acting like one doesn't matter because of the other.

+1 Konstantin. You took the words right out of my mouth.

calling the nazis the greatest genocidal culture is the most stupid thing ive heard in my whole life, what about the british?? enslaving Africa, Asia and whipping off all the american cultures?? same with the spaniards and so on, what about modern america? what about the new holocaust thanks to israel? or all the other dictatorships sponsored by, yes....Us the taxpayers!! its funny how what is obvious for the rest of the world, its not su much for the rest of us.

How are nukes any worse than years of trench warfare? Because they killed people faster, put our troops in no danger and hastened surrender? Wouldn't that make them a MORE humane solution?

Ah, but we brits didn't kill all the other races - we just enslaved them and put them to work making us rich.

I wish Joystiq had a trophy or cheevo system akin to the PS3 or 360. Or a negatrophy/negacheevo equivalent.

I'd like to award Drinkwater with the biggest negacheevo possible for being a complete moron, and award Duke a totally sickdiddle cheevo for calling him out on it. While I may disagree with you about the efficacy of dropping of a nuke, personally feeling it was one of the more despicable things done in world history (maybe we'll never know for sure), certainly a comparative statement declaring that what the Nazis did was a lesser evil by them simply not doing so is so, so, so remarkably brain-dead that it can't be properly expressed in words

I mean good lawd it almost came off as 'oh hey the Nazis weren't *that* bad'

Oh what I would give to have a magic monocle that let me know who was trollin and who was a genuine crank.

Don't forget that Truman regretted ever having to make that decision for the rest of his life, while the (remaining) Nazi leaders only felt bad because the Nuremberg court was taking them down.

It's easy to say dropping the nuke was bad, but thinking about Truman's position makes it a harder call: continue the insanely bloody island-hopping strategy, eventually moving in to mainland Japan and having to fight all the civilians too since losing to an enemy and forsaking your emperor/god meant a complete loss of honor, or maybe attempting to stop the war short by unleashing the most devastating weapon ever developed. Either way, a lot of people are going to die. Not an envious position at all.

First I argued against someone who said and believed that the KKK was not a terrorist organization. This day and age it's not prominent but in the many years after its inception it most definitely worked on terrorizing minorities. I subsequently won the argument and the class clapped for me. Secondly, I read Drinkwater's comment and realized his jackassery. Thirdly, I think he's the same idiot from before. Finally, he's an idiot jackass.

Avan has a point.

There have been numerous other cultures that have committed genocides, just because the Holocaust was one of the most recent and documented does not mean it was the worse. I am not, by any means, trying to deny the horror of the Holocaust nor am I uneducated about it. I have studied the Holocaust multiple times in my History classes, I have seen films and documentaries about it, and I have even been to a Holocaust museum.

The British have enslaved Africans (even though they were sold by their own kind, it wouldn't have happened if nobody asked), they invaded (colonized is the politically correct term) India, took away the school system, forced farmers to grow cash crops, and of course, the Indians were discriminated against. How about the Opium Wars with China? They sold opium to the Chinese in defiance of Chinese laws, engaged in war with China two times, and they eventually got Hong Kong. You cannot deny the negative and positive effects of British "colonization".

How about the way Australians treated the Aboriginals? Their rights were denied, they were discriminated against. They were treated like Native Americans in the US. Both the Aborigines and the Native American livelihoods were reduced to a bare minimum.

How about the Japanese and what they did to most of Asia? The Nanjing Massacre is perhaps one of the most prominent examples of Japanese aggression. They also invaded the Philippines, Korea, and other parts of Asia.

I'm not trying to belittle anything, nor am I trying to glorify anything. I'm just trying to prove Avan's point a little. Calling the Nazis/Germans the "greatest genocidal culture" (Nazis aren't even a culture) is a stretch, when there have been other aggressive cultures/countries also.

The discussion wasn't based on them actually being the greatest genocidal culture in human history it was on them feeling labeled as that by many people, right or wrong.

Everyone with any historical education knows there were other atrocities, many of which are worse, but that hardy has any implications in a discussion as to the swastika being used and why the Germans do not want it to be portrayed.

You guys are working overtime to show you know history more than others when it really isn't fitting into the topic.

@Duke - I was suprised to see Avans comment downvoted at the time, so I had to get my point across somehow. I understand that I typed a lot, but at least I got my point made.

dropping the second Nuke so shortly after the first is the thing that was wrong they did not give them enough time for a complete surrender

they moved the date up 2 days earlier to avoid bad weather

i mean comeon at that point japan had no defence against it

if they truely believed that a second demonstartion was needed to provide a surrender at that they hadnt just had a fluke explosion the first time they could have chosen a non populated area to blow up, the mushroom cloud is distinctive enough to say ok look they got the shit to destroy us

although were lucky that japan surrended cos if america had just kept nuking them wed be in the shit now

I wonder how many of you are americans... The nuke you dropped may not have had the "level of evil" of what the nazi regime did but it's not like it wasn't genocidal.

What did dead rising Have to do with Natzis?

Haven't you ever heard of Nazi Zombies, whylekat?!

Don't mind him. Dead Rising was a completely different case...

Uhm, why would that be a completely different case?

Same case of censorship that we get all the time. It's allowed to use Nazi symbols in even the worst low budget movies here because they are considered "art" whilst games simply aren't accepted. German politicians have publicly compared FPS Games with drugs and child pornography.

Should've added the *sarcasm* tags...

Well, they were burned.

So were PEOPLE.

"Excuse me herr librarian, where is the Zyklon B section?"

===
http://tgip.wordpress.com

ha!

oops i can't spell.

It's probably because of a missed swastika on a poster in the Hospital. Can't provide more context, since I haven't played the game.

Hope this link works...

http://www.schnittberichte.com/www/SBs/5982811/haken.jpg

If that is truly the reason, then wow, you have to squint to even see it.

Protip, art is completely subjective.

Not when the climax of your work is to kill nazi zombies.

DON'T FEED THE TROLL

Don't expect Wolfenstein Reboot #2 to be earning any special place in the hallowed halls of master pieces.

$10 bargain bin, that's more fitting.

It depends on your definition of what art is. I view it as simply any form of creative medium. If some blue squares of cloth or a bed with some rubbish on it count as art, then surely a series of trillions of zeroes and ones that work together to create an interactive experience for the user can be counted as one too.

Of course, it doesn't necessarily make it good art. *cough* wolfenstein

But then take a look at something where the creative intentions are astonishing like Portal or Braid, or even something like Gran Turismo or Halo where the process of playing the game has been streamlined and near-perfected by the design team - surely even if something is 'intellectually' bankrupt, that doesn't necessarily mean that the effort to make it enjoyable for the user was devoid of an artistic talent of a sort.

So if I was in PR, I'd say the user's mind is the canvas and your gameplay mechanics are the paint.