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Reader Comments (32)

Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:06PM (Unverified) said

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Good article. It's not something you think about often. If I bought a piece of crap, I usually groaned and tried to sell it to some other fool. I never would have thought about returning it.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:42PM (Unverified) said

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Isn't that strange to think about, I'm not going to throw around analogies, but when something doesn't work as intended, in any form, why aren't they held responsible?

Don't even get me started on patches....not everyone in america has internet
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:12PM (Unverified) said

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So I can get my money back for Two Worlds?
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:43PM Gaming Expert said

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Hey Two Worlds was actually fun, though I'll admit the voice acting was probably the worst I've ever heard but I don't play games for the voice acting.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 5:45AM Snowblind said

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PERCHANCE!

I'd say the game had some good ideas, but it had horrible story, characters, voice work, animation, dialogue.. and for the most part the universe and lore read like bad fanfiction.

I mean, the name of the world is "Antaloor".
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:16PM kojo87 said

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this isn't exactly related but this article reminds me of a law i learned from my friends lawyer mom. there is no legally binding contract for any purchase made by a minor. so if you are under 18 you can return anything you bought at any time. the first thing i thought of when i heard this was video games. you could essentially "rent" as many games as you wanted for as long as you wanted as long as you had enough money for an upfront "deposit" that would be entirely refunded when you returned it. sure there are some ethics issues attached to this but for you cold-hearted 15 year olds out there that want to screw with your local Gamestop, this might be valuable information.

disclaimer: you might want to double check this before you do it but my source is credible to my knowledge
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:38PM vidguy said

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While it is technically correct that a person under the age of majority (usually 18) cannot enter into a binding contract, there are a number of things preventing your scenario from playing out.

A minor can ratify a contract by continuing to use a product for a reasonable time. If you don't return the product within a short period of time, you are bound by the sale.

The purpose of protecting minors from binding contracts is to prevent them from harmful obligations that the law presumes they cannot understand. I don't think any modern judge would believe that a 15 year old doesn't understand that he is bound to the sale of a video game after his purchase is made. It would be a tough sale to say that, absent some mental deficiency, and no appellate court would recognize the argument as it would set a bad policy precedent (i.e. allowing anyone under the age of 18 to return purchased products for full price).

Anyway, it won't work.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 1:02AM kojo87 said

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thank you. i kinda figured a legal loop-hole this glaring couldn't exist but i was just relaying what i had heard from what i believed to be a credible source.

see kids this is why you double check your facts.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:16PM Crusty Magic said

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Great article.

Could you imagine if you could still get away with returning games at the store because of a fault in the programming?

I would have returned Gears of War 2 the week after I bought it because of the fuck fest multiplayer.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:24PM Wiizer said

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This article makes me think of those games released with online functionality not completely working properly (Castle Crashers for the 360). What kind of timeframe could one put on the fixing of these issues before it leads to claims of 'damages' or 'warranty'?

Also, how has Microsoft been able to avoid lawsuits with so many RRoD's floating around? I mean, I know they do exchanges, but how do they appease individuals that are on their 4th, 5th replacement?

Has no one been successful in mounting a case against them in these circumstances (even though it seems as a major breach in expressed warranty if they are not able to provide a viable replacement)?
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:44PM That Burning Sensation said

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to me it is about 'intent'. The whole ODST error issue is not the same at RROD. That was Microsoft intentionally pushing unfinished product to beat the compitition and that was an ethical violation of consumer trust. This was an unintentional problem that isn't as wide spread that could be easly remedied probably by an update.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 9:01AM Daverator said

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The thing is, if they replace a product, (as with RROD) then they have lived up to their warranty.

Both implied and Express warranties usually accept replacement as a valid option for a faulty unit (as long as the replacement works).

I think patches would also fall under some variation of replacement, as they effectively replace part of the broken code in your software.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:25PM That Burning Sensation said

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Why is this subject so damn complicated!? If many people purchase the same game and it doesn't play, (ta da!) the product broken. Now we've got to get all philosophical about it. What does the word "product" really mean? What do you mean the word "is"? Give me a break. If my new car's steering wheel just falls off after making a left turn then its broke and if it happens to a few people then there is something wrong. I don't think the company would get a site to waste time and space debated if a steering wheel falling off REAALLY means the WHOLE car is broken.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:41PM vidguy said

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I'd like to see you read the UCC (that's the Uniform Commercial Code for the layman) and tell me sales contracts aren't complicated. Most law schools have an entire course on one small aspect of the UCC, titled Sales.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:27PM Ryuk said

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really a great article. you guys should do op-eds.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:29PM That Burning Sensation said

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Really, Some one spent the entire day finding a way to link a faulty Halo ODST game code to a faulty Playstation product. I guess they've invented a new game "Six degrees of blaming Playstation".
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:33PM DeepFriedSushi said

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oh no... lets not even utter a single word of negativity towards sony. stop being naive ps1, ps2 had their share of problems.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:34PM (Unverified) said

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No one has said it's the game code. They've said it's the older 360 drives. Could be a compression error, a pressing error, or any number of things.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:39PM That Burning Sensation said

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I've heard it was something in the code, but who knows. My point being is that if a game ceases to work through no fault of the user then the product is broken. If it was a fundemental flaw that was always there then the product is still broken. What this article does is argue over symantecs.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:58PM wormania said

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Law is nothing but semantics. The sooner you learn this the sooner a lot of things in life will make much more sense.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 12:19AM vidguy said

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Example: I wrote a 15-page trial brief on whether my client "repaired" or "reconstructed" a microphone when he replaced the windscreen. I'm currently writing another trial brief on whether a parrot can qualify as a service animal (like a seeing eye dog) under the Fair Housing Act.

Semantics makes me money.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 1:10PM aristokrat said

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Woah, a parrot as a service animal? "Turn left, squawk!"

Please tell me your arguing for its inclusion.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 2:25PM vidguy said

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Yep. My client has an anger management issue and the parrot talks to him to calm him down. It says "calm down, Charlie. Don't worry about it, Charlie." I'm arguing that he should get to keep the parrot in his apartment despite the no-pet policy. FYI, though, I'm still in law school so this is a completely fictional scenario. I really don't think it would be a winning argument in real life.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:29PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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I want to know what Mr. Methenitis has to say about the possible implications of that rumor about Microsoft buying EA. In terms of what some people on that thread claimed would be a monopoly.

As usual very informative article. I still miss the Philosony articles from Kylie Prymus ... whatever.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 1:11PM (Unverified) said

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Aww, someone remembers me!

[Shameless Plug]

I've started a blog at optimusprymus.blogspot.com. It's been on hiatus for the past few months but it's starting back up again. Come say hi!
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 2:07PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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Awesome!

Of course I'll come by and say hi!

Reading your entries was the best part of what used to be PS3 Fanboy. You kind of remind me of my friend Benny who is a professor of economics at one of (if not THE) oldest colleges in the state of FL ... glad to know you are back and blogging again.
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Posted: Sep 29th 2009 11:40PM (Unverified) said

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Clever title but at first I thought it read LabiaODST and that was kind of disturbing.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 12:59AM GuineaRabbit343 said

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Microsoft? Actually being held liable for their mistakes? That'll be the day.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 3:12AM manaknights said

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I really enjoy reading these articles. I just want to point out a small error. You place blame on bug squarely on the sole of the QA department which is not usually the case. With the amount of man hours put into games especially AAA titles most bugs that make the game unplayable, even more so in the case of ones encountered by a normal player, are found and reported by the QA department. The call whether they get fixed is not in there hands. It usually falls into the producers hands. They make those decisions based on a number of factors like how often it happens, what are the use cases(based on how often and how hard it is to get it how many people will see it), and difficulty to fix. After having worked in QA for quite a while it makes me sad how people tend to throw all the blame onto them without thought that there is an entire team responsible for said game.
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 11:14AM Danthok said

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Speaking of Legacy of Kain, when is the next one going to be developed?
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 12:54PM cylet said

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so.. is halo odst gonna get fixed?
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Posted: Sep 30th 2009 3:56PM sqlrob said

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Is patching a valid excuse in the console realm? A sizeable proportion don't hook their consoles to the network. Plus, if the patch is ever taken offline for any reason, it's a coaster. Also, how do caps and pay per MB providers impact this? You're paying another charge to get the product as advertised.

Oh, and which Legacy of Kain? I've played most of them and never ran into that issue.
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