Muramasa publisher: UK retailers avoiding original IP
by JC Fletcher 
{ Oct 22nd 2009 at 12:30PM } 
He claims that the issue is not with the game itself, but retailers' over-reliance on safer, existing intellectual property. "If it is not first-party, a sequel or supported by a multi-million pound advertising spend, they are just not interested." Defries lamented that Muramasa could find its way into stores -- when it's traded in.
Defries pondered in his letter whether the seemingly growing emphasis on franchises represents a "dumbing-down of the medium" that results in consumers having "little or no exposure to a rich and different gaming experience." Of course, retailers (and publishers) have preferred the sure thing for as long as there have been sequels, but actually not being able to market your game, especially one as interesting as Muramasa, seems especially frustrating.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Jerk Face @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:37PM
It's more than frustrating; it's complete bullshit. And Muramasa is a really cool game. That is a crying shame.
Porker @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:40PM
This game is very good. A shame about this story.
That is all.
shethblade @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:41PM
Somehow, I'm not surprised, but it is a sad tale. There's always online stocks, but retail gets increasingly dumb for all sorts of electronic media and hardware these days; it's rather depressing.
Though, admittedly, Muramasa IS kind of a cult hit. They conceded a chance of anything more when they decided dubbing the adaptation was a waste of time.
Mike @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:42PM
If DeFries is right, then that's quite a disturbing trend, and in my opinion, it's exactly the opposite of what the industry needs right now. But in hard economic times, I guess they're just trying to protect themselves by only selling games they think are sure-fire winners.
Jeff Smith @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:43PM
As a local game store owner, I can understand where they're coming from.
This is one of my favorite games to come out this year, and yet I can't even sell one copy of it. It's a shame what sells nowadays when there are real gems getting looked over.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:43PM
What the real shame is and this isn't intended as bashing the Wii, and that is to not release games like this for the Wii. These types of games are wasted on the console. What they should have done is release this game as a downloadable title for the PS360, where people who actually play these types of games will buy it. It's a hardcore game and although the wii does have some high quality hardcore titles (Metroid), their sales are absolutely lacking
copa @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:48PM
I agree completely. Dead Space: Extraction is not an original IP, but it sold very, very poorly through retail because that is not the kind of game the Wii retail audience is looking for.
If Rising Star Games does not have the budget to support marketing and distributing through retail, then they should be using digital distribution to reduce costs and reach their target audience.
Mr Khan @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:58PM
You two are on two totally different ends of the spectrum with that. Dead Space Extraction failed in early sales because it's too expensive. The game is simply too short for what they're offering, especially since a multiplat owner can right now buy the original game for half the price they're asking for extraction, if they haven't already
Muramasa is worth the asking price, from what i've heard (unless you're the kind that thinks 2D games just aren't worth it period). The issue there is the fact that it is otherwise hopelessly niche, but its production values are a little too great to really look at XBLA/PSN status. Wii is really their only option in this regard: something that's too niche to play on PS360 retail, but too heavy to play on PS360 downloadable
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:59PM
I just don't understand why these companies continue to invest in these type of games on the wii. The Wii has a huge user base, but companies don't realise that the majority of the userbase are more than happy to play wii sports et al for the lifetime of the console
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:01PM
Don't agree at all Khan. That game could easily work on the PS3 or 360. I mean isn't the 360 for example now allowing full downloads of 360 games?! Even if you were to ignore that fact, the game could work as an episodic game
Mr Khan @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:05PM
But you don't need to grab the majority of the userbase. you just need to turn a profit, and for many of these kinds of projects, Wii is the only place you can do that, turn out a full, retail-sized experience with minimal risk.
The differences in profit margins make for vastly different expectations. That's why EA can look at the original Dead Space and brand it "underperforming" at 1.5 million copies sold across the two platforms, while Suda 51 can dance with glee at No More Heroes' achievement of around 400k or so on Wii
Dopple Boppler @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:07PM
The problem with that is doing sprites in HD; it's why Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix or whatever it's called is pretty much the only remake on the HD consoles with HD sprites, and why games like the new Rocket Knight have to be done in 3-D. To be frank, I think they've made more money off the game thus far selling it at retail on the Wii than if they had gone the digital distribution route for the PS3 and 360, if HD sprites had been the case.
As for Dead Space Extraction, I think there's a lot of reasons for the sales being the way they are thus far, not the least of which being that it's a rail shooter. Which speaks nothing of the quality of it, obviously, since I've heard it's quite good, but I don't see how it would have sold any better on the 360 or PS3, to be frank. Granted, Umbrella Chronicles and House of the Dead have sold moderately well if I recall correctly, but I'm willing to bet their immediate sales were pretty abysmal as well.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:10PM
No more Heroes would have doubled if not tripled that as a multiplatform release on the other 2 consoles. I'm sure that the companies want to turn a profit, but when you consider the wii's install base, surely you must agree that 400K sales is pathetic
TwEE @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:28PM
"No more Heroes would have doubled if not tripled that as a multiplatform release on the other 2 consoles. I'm sure that the companies want to turn a profit, but when you consider the wii's install base, surely you must agree that 400K sales is pathetic"
How much did Suda 51's last game sell on the ps2? Go look it up. With he ps2's huge install base it must have been double if not triple that of no more heroes right?
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:41PM
I don't know what Suda 51's first game sold on the PS2 and even if it sold less, it doesn't change the fact that releasing hardcore games on the wii is a waste of time. For every hardcore game that sells 400k, there is considerably more games of this type that sell far less
guttertalk @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:45PM
I had to go to 4 different Best Buys before I found it. Why? Because it's a "niche game."
Putting it on the 360 or PS3 wouldn't have changed that fact or that the stores wouldn't carry it.
If people who play the game would buy it on the 360, liamario, they'd buy it on the Wii, too. And while MS is releasing full games through Games on Demand, they're older games, not new ones.
liamario, you're making this about the Wii when the issue is the stores. For them to carry only the established IPs or the heavily advertised blockbusters is a problem for anyone regardless of platform.
The fact that Muramasa sold what it did with almost no advertising and with limited to no shelf space is actually somewhat impressive.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:52PM
The game is a niche title. No matter what marketing the game was given, the sales incease would have been insignificant. The reality is, the game is exceptionally niche and games of that type will never be successful on the wii. They will never be up to the standards of something like Super Mario Galaxy in terms of sales. If you even take metroid, which is a nintendo IP, why didn't nintendo advertise that game? Because they knew that it wouldn't sell as well as a casual game.
TwEE @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:58PM
"The reality is, the game is exceptionally niche and games of that type will never be successful ANYWHERE."
There I fixed that for ya.
If Suda's last game on the ps2 with its over 100 million install base didn't come close to 400k, why would you expect the ps3 or 360 to? I don't get it, why blame the wii for low sales of a suda game when the fact is that having this game on the wii brought it more success than suda has ever had in the past.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:03PM
Let's be fair, you are using one title. But we all know that the majority of hardcore titles are destined for failure on the wii, regardless of advertising. Next you'll be telling me that if MW2 was released on the ii, it would garner as much sales as the other 2 consoles
guttertalk @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:19PM
Okay, since you're using a hard number of 400,000 as failure, let's consider some similar 360 failures:
Command and Conquer 3 (~500,000)
Red Alert 3 (~300,000)
Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II (~300,000)
Blue Dragon (~530,000)
Tales of Vesperia (~420,000)
Eternal Sonata (240,000)
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:22PM
I never once said 400k was a failure.
guttertalk @ Oct 22nd 2009 3:00PM
"you must agree that 400K sales is pathetic"
I'm sorry. I didn't realize that you consider "pathetic" successful.
guttertalk @ Oct 22nd 2009 3:03PM
"you must agree that 400K sales is pathetic"
I'm sorry. I didn't realize you consider "pathetic" successful.
But, fine, we'll play that. Those hardcore games I listed have "pathetic" sales on the hardcore 360.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 3:03PM
"when you consider the wii's install base, surely you must agree that 400K sales is pathetic"
That's what I said and the way you have put it is a complete twist of my words.
guttertalk @ Oct 22nd 2009 3:27PM
I knew you'd go that route. How in the world did I "twist" your words? By leaving out the Wii install base remark? Really? That makes all the difference?
So, you're saying is that 400,000 sales for a 360 games, considering ITS install base, is not pathetic?
Otherwise,what's the meaningful distinction you think you're making?
Considering that a large percentage of Wi''s owners are casual, that 400,000 sales for a Wii hardcore game the hardly seems any different than for the same sales for a 360 hardcore title. In fact, given the numbers of casual gamers that some assume for the Wii, the 400,000 is impressive.
liamario @ Oct 22nd 2009 3:49PM
You are contradicting yourself. One second you're saying the wii is a hardcore console and the next you are saying that it is mainly for casual gamers. It's one or the other. You knew I'd go down that route?! The route of hard truths. The truth is, relative to the ridiculous amount of sales of the console, 400k is absolutely pathetic. The fact of the matter is and you can continue to protect the wii all you want, making games like muramasa for the wii is a wasted oppurtunity. No amount of advertising is going to change that. You continue to stick to the same arguement, but have never addressed the point that a game like MW2 on the wii would not sell as well as on the 360 or PS3. The Wii is aimed at the casual gamer and thus hardcore games are destined to continue to under perform on it. Even if you look at multiplatform games, the wii barely gets a mention both in terms of articles and or sales.
bm @ Oct 23rd 2009 6:50AM
Since everybody else has already made good points that you just blow off, I'll just add: wow liamario, you're a complete tool.
BIacked Out @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:45PM
Erm next article: "Japanese retailers avoid everything foreign".
I really hate the Japanlove sometimes. Coming from an avid RPG player and Manga reader lol.
Jose [Steam & PSN: Assmar] @ Oct 22nd 2009 12:54PM
Perhaps they should have called it "Odin Sphere 2: The Re-Sidescrollening."
Storm Eagle [Resident Capcom Megafan] @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:01PM
Sometimes there are just too many games coming out, and it sucks because I don't get to play all the ones that I really like to try and I have to go with the bigger hits.
Muramusa looks like a game I would really enjoy playing, even though it's not the type of game I typically play. Although, I have to make the tough choice of where my many goes, and most of the time, these titles lose out.
For those players who thrive on these kind of offerings though, it's hard to think what they would do if these type of games were never even made available to them.
Wardo @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:05PM
I hear you Storm Eagle, same with me. There were a lot of games I wanted to buy this year (including Muramasa) but I found myself out of time and out of money. I promised myself I'd pick it up sometime in the future though.
Zsavior @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:06PM
As long as gamers refuse to support a game and rather support consoles, games are going to start having less and less original ideas and IPs and more about media hyped genre games and sequels. I hardly play my WII or my xbox360 but I bought both systems because at the time I saw games that I wanted to play and thought it was worth the money to own.
That being sad what I see most times are people going "don't make for this system or that system because it is just a waste of time" obviously the game was put on that system because they may not have had the money or resource to put it on another. The developers are believing that gamers will pick up a system to play good games, I believe that time has come on gone with gamers, as prices have become higher.
The thing is we have seen symptoms like this before. 1983 gaming crash in America, retailers didn't have or stopped making room for game titles, companies flooding the market place with video games that were poor just to try and make an easy buck. Companies spending outrageous amount on games and not getting the profit back thus going under. The exact reasons aren't the same but the symptoms are there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983
Dante G @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:09PM
They should have called it: "Muramasa 3: The Demon Blade".
On a more serious side, I find it hard to justify 50 bucks for Muramasa when there's New Super Mario Bros. Wii coming out very soon... and it's ten bucks cheaper.
coyotej @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:59PM
Uh, but they're completely different styles of games. If you have a specific budget for gaming, I understand. But the games are totally different experiences. New SMB Wii for me will probably be about the co-op.
Dante G @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:22PM
Yeah, they're very different kinds of games, but since I don't have enough time to play both, given the choice I would go with NSMB Wii. And that's what retailers must be thinking too, they're all going to be stocking the Mario game cause it will most likely sell like hot cakes, Muramasa not so much, so it will probably be $30 in a couple of months.
Abriael @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:30PM
It's pretty simple. if you want to sell and market your core game, don't develop it for the wii just because it's cheap.
Spend more in developing a true core game for a core console (or both), and you'll market it easily and potentially sell very well.
Spend less in developing the game on a console that has an userbase composed by a massive majority of casual gamers that won't care crap about your game, and you won't sell squat, and the retailers won't be too eager to even put your game on the shelves.
I'd say it's not rocket science which of the two options is better.
Core developers should stay away from the wii until Nintendo markets the console as a toy for dumb kids (just look at all the wii commercials on TV, they make any core gamer cringe in shame at the thought "are the ones that watch this commercial really envisioning me like this?").
Here in italy the latest "testimonial" of the wii is a TV starlette that since her debut plays the role of the "dumb as a bucket of rocks" airhead girl. Now, maybe she isn't as dumb as she plays, but she gives the impression that the average wii gamer is an idiot. And there are similar cases basically in every country.
How can anyone expect to really sell non overhyped core gamers on a console marketed in that abysmal way is seriously beyond me. As much as I appreciated the game, I don't feel any sympathy for them, they make the wrong choice at the very beginning and they're now paying the price for it.
Abriael @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:33PM
Here is an example of the commercials i'm talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPRtYHYUZsg
Unfortunately It won't convey properly just how stupid she sounds to non-italian-speakers, but I'd say it can give an idea of what I mean.
The Good Soldier Svejk @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:34PM
I'm all for what this guy is saying, but here's a bit of advice.
Don't release your super niche hardcore as fuck side scrolling 2D beat-emup in the midst of the Christmas period when every inch of shelf space is like gold to retailers.
TwEE @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:36PM
Sweet lord the whole casual/hardcore crap is back in full force today. What a bunch of bull.
Abriael @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:43PM
Unfortunately for developers wanting to develop games for cheap on an underpowered machine, it's not bull. It's a matter of marketing.
Target is the very basic concept of marketing. If you release a product aimed for a certain target, but dependant on a platform that's aimed to a different target, and you can't rely on external factors like an extremely popular franchise to ramp up your sales, you failed at identifying your target and you will fail at selling your product. It's that simple.
The target of this game matches only a negligible fraction of the target (and as such, of the installed base) of thw Wii, and for that reasons retailers don't want to use shelf space for it, because they know it won't sell. Again, it's that simple.
Can't sell a ferrari in a bicycle shop.
TwEE @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:00PM
Here is the thing though, I don't believe in the whole hardcore casual divide, and people that do believe are retarded.
Markusdragon @ Oct 22nd 2009 5:51PM
There's more of a niche/mainstream divide, really, and what's mainstream is dictated entirely by fashion and advertising. It's a sad state of affairs, but it's pretty much what happens in every entertainment industry.
Of course, the snobbery is even worse than the actual divide. What a great way to encourage people to buy less mainstream games; tell them that they're sheep who don't deserve video games. Yeesh.
Nigeria: Charmy Bee DF @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:40PM
Assuming the retailers Rising Star are referring to are Game, it's subsidiaries, and the massive supermarkets, I'm sure those vendors have looked at the performance of Little Kings Story, as well as other Rising Star efforts, as an indicator to Muramasa's potential at retail. LKS was heavily discounted about a week after it hit stores: my guess is about 30-40%. Recently I saw several copies in the bargain DVD bin of my local Sainsbury. Some crappy Rob Schneider film was covering up the king, a great shame.
Rising Star are awesome though, and I hope the reluctance of brick and mortar stores won't dissuade them from bringing over these niche titles.
Geist @ Oct 22nd 2009 1:55PM
Really? I want to go where you are, everywhere I look her (Ottawa), it's still 50 bucks.
Lurkero @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:01PM
They might not sell it, but I bet the UK Gamestops will accept it used and have it on shelves the next day.
Orchard Pear @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:04PM
Excellent.
Hopefully it will continue to bomb in every territory it's released in, and they'll release a 360/PS3 port to recoup their losses, which is where it should have been released in the first place.
Geist @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:06PM
You are an incredible asshole.
esposch @ Oct 22nd 2009 5:15PM
A PS3 port would make sense, but the 360 market would laugh at this game, and I'm sure the 360's D-pad would make it even worse than a 480i/p-only Wii version (especially for the 73% of us that still have SDTV's).
Actually, if piracy wasn't raping the PSP into oblivion, a port there would make sense too. And it would sell like hotcakes...
Protodude @ Oct 22nd 2009 8:45PM
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1146/wat1251500867951.jpg
LFF @ Oct 22nd 2009 2:06PM
It's terrible in the UK. They only stock and promote the big games like CoD and Guitar Hero, or shovelware for the Wii and DS. All the fresh and original games are ignored and then nobody knows about these games. It's sort of breeding a population of consumers who just buy into FPS and Racing games and think games like Katamari sound stupid.
I find it lucky if I can even find the likes of Disgaea in any shops over here.