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Reader Comments (148)

Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:02PM d889 said

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any judge would laugh in all of their faces if this ever went anywhere
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:10PM ch3burashka said

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And every grammar nazi is achin' to take a red pen to your post. Seriously dude, God created punctuation and capitalization for a reason.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:15PM (Unverified) said

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*Nazi

Sorry...I had to.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:39PM R Planteer said

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@CH3BURASHKA
1. Your name is typed in full capital letters, which is bad form.
2. Starting a sentence with the word "and" will also get you marked down on a college level paper, as it is extremely improper form in either APA or MLA format.
3. As previously noted, "Nazi" is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
4. "Achin'" is a pointless abbreviation as you are simply replacing a "g" for an apostrophe. Most word processors don’t even accept it as a valid abbreviation. Try to use that on a formal paper and you will lose points as well.
5. You're a douche. This is the Internet. Many people don’t use fully correct grammar/punctuation. Get over it, his was in better form than many people on this website.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 10:23PM Dragod said

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Protip: Punctuation was a product of humans.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 10:49PM Tiptup300 said

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I love the main part how they are supposed to sell live subscriptions when people don't even lose their subscription when banned.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 2:33AM Extinction said

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Hard to use the subscription when your system just got banned
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 10:50AM Rocketboy said

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Well, starting a sentence with 'And' may not be the best form, but it is generally accepted as proper English. Only professors who are grammar Nazis will mark you down for this, if it's done in the correct context.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 2:43PM Duke said

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Dear asshats,

Please stop spamming us with unrelated "issues" and bogus deals.

Thank you.

ps - R deserves a slow clap from us!
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:05PM WiredKnight said

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It was the modders' decision to mod their xboxes, breaching the EULA. It was their decision to take the risk by spending money on something that could be shut down at any moment.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:07PM WiredKnight said

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Oh. To clarify, Microsoft doesn't owe them shit.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:28PM Ghen said

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You're just reading the summary and making your opinion known with curse words without knowing why the lawsuit exists.

Yes, absolutely, microsoft has the right to ban consoles. The lawsuit is not about that at all.
The lawsuit first states there should be a refund of XBL pro-rated by month. This is a dumb point because you can still use live.
The second point is much more interesting and well worth going to court for. Microsoft, when banning the xbox from XBL (the only EULA agreed upon by the user), actually went one step further and broke functional portions of the customer purchased hardware. Notably the hard drive installation feature and the media streaming feature.

So to me, this case is about a customers complete right to modify hardware that they purchased and not lose out-of-the-box functionality because the parent company doesn't want them to modify their hardware. The media streaming portion being the most cruel and thoughtless because I have no idea how that even pertains to xbox live or even video games in their entirety.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:52PM simbadogg said

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not on my watch beyotch, S that D....shut it down, DEAL BREAKER

so MS timed the banning to make more money? might be a little sneaky, like the firm is trying to insinuate...but either way its a good kick in the nuts for those people out there pirating games. support devs ya jackoffs, buy the damn game
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:01PM (Unverified) said

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Of course the customer has a right to do whatever they want to the hardware.



Just don't expect to use it on Microsoft's service. It's their rule, and they have the right to set the rules to use their service. You can still play games while banned though, so it's no big deal. Besides, wouldn't a "smart" hacker have a 2nd 360 to use when they want to play a game online legitimately?
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:09PM Ghen said

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tmac: yeah, most hackers do end up having a second unhacked xbox for the extra goodies you get for pre-ordering, or all the plastic instruments / controller mods that are popular these last few years.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:26PM WiredKnight said

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...and you're just making ill-conceived assumptions that I don't really know what's going on here. Thanks.

The first part of your little reply was exactly what I was addressing. It's pretty ridiculous for users who have violated the terms and conditions to expect to be punished in a way that is convenient for them (i.e. before they paid for Live).

And as tmac noted, it's not illegal at all to modify the hardware, but since "reverse-engineering" is part of nearly any software/hardware license agreement, they have every right to deny modders access to XBL services.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:30PM WiredKnight said

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Also, I think pretty much any information that is sent over either the internet or a network is considered part of XBL. So even though it has nothing to do with games, the media streaming that you mentioned is still considered to be under the XBL service umbrella.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:31PM WiredKnight said

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On second thought, I wonder if that includes system-link, since there's often such a large distinction between that and XBL. Anyone know if banned consoles can still play over system-link?
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:33PM Ghen said

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media center streaming has absolutely nothing to do with xbox live and can be completed on a console with no xbox live membership.

System Link still works fine, and some hackers are using systems like Kai or XBC to use system link over the internet.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:51PM SDHusker said

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The problem with your argument Ghen is that Xbox Live is NOT out-of-box functionality. You must purchase it separately. So blocking a console from accessing that non-out-of-box functionality is different than say banning the consoles from playing games or periphs that come in box with the console.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:57PM WiredKnight said

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Hm. Alright then.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:59PM Teus said

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@ghen

Heres the thing you had to agree to the terms of service before you can go on LIVE and it was quite explicit on what will happen should you violate the terms of that agreement.. and microsoft doesnt have to refund them anything.. the person broke the rules and got what they deserved
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 9:46PM Ghen said

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ryan: No one wants a refund except the lawyer. All the hackers are good about it. The only real problem is Microsoft taking away functionality that was there before live and doesn't require live to be active and doesn't connect to live in any way.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 9:40AM (Unverified) said

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What none of you guys seem to understand, sure Piracy is illegal, and banning is alright.
But when they ban a console, they disable HDD installs,
they corrupt all the game saves all the gamertags and everything else on the HD, I understand the GT when being switched to prevent achievement swapping, but gamesaves? Really?

They also disable media center functionality which has NOTHING to do with XBL..
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:06PM DVDA said

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Consoles are banned, not live accounts. Why is this not made clear by Joystiq?
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 8:08PM Hedgeson said

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I don't know if they changed it, but the title says 'to ban consoles'
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:08PM (Unverified) said

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i spoofed and swapped my drive cause it stopped reading discs and was out of warranty. Why should i get banned from live for this?

Surely illegal.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:11PM (Unverified) said

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The word is 'spoofed'.

How are they to tell you didn't install a drive without the lockouts on it?

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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:13PM Ozymandias said

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There's an unspoken agreement that says you just tell them it red rings after an hour or so of gameplay. They don't test it that long and just replace it with a refurb.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:24PM WiredKnight said

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While I'm sure that's worked for some people that they won't test it that long, they can also check the error logs, which will clearly show whether or not the system has ever displayed the RRoD.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:33PM Edge of Blade said

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You keep using that word... "Illegal". I'm not sure you know what it means.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:54PM Ozymandias said

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@Wired

Yeah, that's why you usually block the vents with a towel until it overheats during gameplay. Forces a Red Ring.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 8:07PM WiredKnight said

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Ah yes. The good ol' towel trick. Don't forget to put a couple toothpicks in the vents to keep the fans from spinning.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 10:39PM Vcize said

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I don't think the 360 keeps any error logs. Before MS decided to also extend the warranty for video and e74 issues, I know countless people with those issues that called and said their console RROD'd after an hour and they all got theirs replaced no problem.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:08PM (Unverified) said

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A Microsoft EDD decision I fully support.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 9:48PM AlphakirA said

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Do you literally go through every topic and individual post and respond to everything?
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:09PM mrmobius said

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I'd actually consider it intelligent of Microsoft to wait until a time when a lot more modders will want Xbox Live for gaming, and ban them at that time. They are within their rights to ban those who break the EULA T&C so they may as well make a little money from those who they legally ban first of all.

If you modded your console, you knew the risks.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 7:57PM DarknessBear said

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But, but DUDE! Don't you think it is messed up that the poor modders had to pay $50! $50!!! Right before getting banned? They haven't had to pay a cent until this, why should they start now!?

I hope with the money Microsoft made from those Xbox Live subscriptions, they divide it up amongst all the companies that all these idiot modders stole from.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 8:23PM HighFiveJesus said

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"Microsoft personally waited for a time when many people -- modders in this case -- would be purchasing Live subscriptions for popular games -- money that probably wouldn't be refunded after a ban"

That is pretty dirty too. Granted, its legal, but dirty.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 9:53PM KinseySS said

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The other argument is, Why would they put the man power to continuously ban people over a an amount of time when they know a whole ton of people are going to go get MW2 illegally and ban them all at once at that time and use little man power to do so.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 7:31AM Unvrfd said

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If you modded your console, don't go on Live. Shit, I thought avoiding Internet connection was common sense for pirates.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 9:53AM TRTX said

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Is it me...or does the timing of the bannings actually make a lot more sense then people want it to?

Think about it for a second. If you have just purchased a new Live account in order to play some AAA title online, then of course it will look like MS is banning people just after the purchase.

Because they can't ban somebody's console for violating the terms of XBL if the console isn't on XBL to violate the terms. So if 1000 people with modded consoles all stupidly sign up for XBL at the same time because some big title came out...then of course MS will have ban all 1000 of them in one huge group since their existance was just made known.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 3:08PM Duke said

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T, that is some pretty solid logic. Nice!
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:10PM Jacksons said

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You broke the rules and got caught. Just own up to it and move on.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:13PM Ezio Auditore da Firenze said

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Good riddance to anyone banned for modding their console.

Less trash to deal with on Live.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 6:43PM Ghen said

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The proportion of idiots to intelligence is about the same in the modding community as it is on XBL. So unfortunately the ratio hasn't decreased.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 9:59PM AlphakirA said

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Not that I disagree with you about the trash that's on Live, but do you really think it was the 14 year old southern racist kids that were modding their consoles? I'm doubting it.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 10:06PM iamnotafish said

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I would say that the percentage among modders is even less. Modders have to have some semblance of technical experience to either mod their console to acquire the games. However, any douchebag 12 year old with daddy's credit card can buy a game, get onto Live and teabag you till the cows come home.

However, that is based purely on conjecture and not on evidence.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2009 3:14PM Boomzilla said

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@ alph
"Southern racist kids?"
Nice stereotype asshole.
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Posted: Nov 22nd 2009 5:15PM Ozymandias said

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Microsoft is fully within their rights to moderate xbox live. Just as the console owners are free to modify their own consoles. It's all just a cat and mouse game. The only people doing anything wrong are the people who distribute pirated games.
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