Microsoft says it's 'well within legal rights' to ban consoles
by Richard Mitchell 
{ Nov 22nd 2009 at 5:00PM } 
It was reported earlier this month that the law firm AlbingtonIP is "investigating" the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Microsoft over the bans. The firm argues that timing of the bans -- shortly after the release of Halo 3: ODST and just prior to the launch of Modern Warfare 2 -- was designed to get as much money from Xbox Live subscriptions as possible. In other words, the firm believes that Microsoft personally waited for a time when many people -- modders in this case -- would be purchasing Live subscriptions for popular games -- money that probably wouldn't be refunded after a ban.
Joystiq's Law of the Game columnist, Mark Methenitis, classified the suit as a likely "cash grab," explaining that anyone savvy enough to mod an Xbox would know to stay well away from Xbox Live. We might add that major releases, like ODST and Modern Warfare 2, are the biggest targets for piracy, and likely correspond with rises in illegal downloads. And that just might have something to do with the timing of the bans in question.
[Via Kotaku]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
d889 @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:02PM
any judge would laugh in all of their faces if this ever went anywhere
CH3BURASHKA @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:10PM
And every grammar nazi is achin' to take a red pen to your post. Seriously dude, God created punctuation and capitalization for a reason.
Darth Bradwart, The Dark Lord of the Sith-ATDF Co-Founder @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:15PM
*Nazi
Sorry...I had to.
R (Planeteers | Power of Penile Pulse) @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:39PM
@CH3BURASHKA
1. Your name is typed in full capital letters, which is bad form.
2. Starting a sentence with the word "and" will also get you marked down on a college level paper, as it is extremely improper form in either APA or MLA format.
3. As previously noted, "Nazi" is a proper noun and should be capitalized.
4. "Achin'" is a pointless abbreviation as you are simply replacing a "g" for an apostrophe. Most word processors don’t even accept it as a valid abbreviation. Try to use that on a formal paper and you will lose points as well.
5. You're a douche. This is the Internet. Many people don’t use fully correct grammar/punctuation. Get over it, his was in better form than many people on this website.
Dragod @ Nov 22nd 2009 10:23PM
Protip: Punctuation was a product of humans.
Tiptup300 @ Nov 22nd 2009 10:49PM
I love the main part how they are supposed to sell live subscriptions when people don't even lose their subscription when banned.
Extinction @ Nov 23rd 2009 2:33AM
Hard to use the subscription when your system just got banned
Rocketboy @ Nov 23rd 2009 10:50AM
Well, starting a sentence with 'And' may not be the best form, but it is generally accepted as proper English. Only professors who are grammar Nazis will mark you down for this, if it's done in the correct context.
Duke @ Nov 23rd 2009 2:43PM
Dear asshats,
Please stop spamming us with unrelated "issues" and bogus deals.
Thank you.
ps - R deserves a slow clap from us!
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:05PM
It was the modders' decision to mod their xboxes, breaching the EULA. It was their decision to take the risk by spending money on something that could be shut down at any moment.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:07PM
Oh. To clarify, Microsoft doesn't owe them shit.
Ghen @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:28PM
You're just reading the summary and making your opinion known with curse words without knowing why the lawsuit exists.
Yes, absolutely, microsoft has the right to ban consoles. The lawsuit is not about that at all.
The lawsuit first states there should be a refund of XBL pro-rated by month. This is a dumb point because you can still use live.
The second point is much more interesting and well worth going to court for. Microsoft, when banning the xbox from XBL (the only EULA agreed upon by the user), actually went one step further and broke functional portions of the customer purchased hardware. Notably the hard drive installation feature and the media streaming feature.
So to me, this case is about a customers complete right to modify hardware that they purchased and not lose out-of-the-box functionality because the parent company doesn't want them to modify their hardware. The media streaming portion being the most cruel and thoughtless because I have no idea how that even pertains to xbox live or even video games in their entirety.
SimbaDogg @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:52PM
not on my watch beyotch, S that D....shut it down, DEAL BREAKER
so MS timed the banning to make more money? might be a little sneaky, like the firm is trying to insinuate...but either way its a good kick in the nuts for those people out there pirating games. support devs ya jackoffs, buy the damn game
tmacairjordan87 @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:01PM
Of course the customer has a right to do whatever they want to the hardware.
Just don't expect to use it on Microsoft's service. It's their rule, and they have the right to set the rules to use their service. You can still play games while banned though, so it's no big deal. Besides, wouldn't a "smart" hacker have a 2nd 360 to use when they want to play a game online legitimately?
Ghen @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:09PM
tmac: yeah, most hackers do end up having a second unhacked xbox for the extra goodies you get for pre-ordering, or all the plastic instruments / controller mods that are popular these last few years.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:26PM
...and you're just making ill-conceived assumptions that I don't really know what's going on here. Thanks.
The first part of your little reply was exactly what I was addressing. It's pretty ridiculous for users who have violated the terms and conditions to expect to be punished in a way that is convenient for them (i.e. before they paid for Live).
And as tmac noted, it's not illegal at all to modify the hardware, but since "reverse-engineering" is part of nearly any software/hardware license agreement, they have every right to deny modders access to XBL services.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:30PM
Also, I think pretty much any information that is sent over either the internet or a network is considered part of XBL. So even though it has nothing to do with games, the media streaming that you mentioned is still considered to be under the XBL service umbrella.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:31PM
On second thought, I wonder if that includes system-link, since there's often such a large distinction between that and XBL. Anyone know if banned consoles can still play over system-link?
Ghen @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:33PM
media center streaming has absolutely nothing to do with xbox live and can be completed on a console with no xbox live membership.
System Link still works fine, and some hackers are using systems like Kai or XBC to use system link over the internet.
Ryne Higgins @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:51PM
The problem with your argument Ghen is that Xbox Live is NOT out-of-box functionality. You must purchase it separately. So blocking a console from accessing that non-out-of-box functionality is different than say banning the consoles from playing games or periphs that come in box with the console.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:57PM
Hm. Alright then.
ryan @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:59PM
@ghen
Heres the thing you had to agree to the terms of service before you can go on LIVE and it was quite explicit on what will happen should you violate the terms of that agreement.. and microsoft doesnt have to refund them anything.. the person broke the rules and got what they deserved
Ghen @ Nov 22nd 2009 9:46PM
ryan: No one wants a refund except the lawyer. All the hackers are good about it. The only real problem is Microsoft taking away functionality that was there before live and doesn't require live to be active and doesn't connect to live in any way.
doeboynmek12 @ Nov 23rd 2009 9:40AM
What none of you guys seem to understand, sure Piracy is illegal, and banning is alright.
But when they ban a console, they disable HDD installs,
they corrupt all the game saves all the gamertags and everything else on the HD, I understand the GT when being switched to prevent achievement swapping, but gamesaves? Really?
They also disable media center functionality which has NOTHING to do with XBL..
DVDA @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:06PM
Consoles are banned, not live accounts. Why is this not made clear by Joystiq?
Hedgeson @ Nov 22nd 2009 8:08PM
I don't know if they changed it, but the title says 'to ban consoles'
Oorang @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:08PM
i spoofed and swapped my drive cause it stopped reading discs and was out of warranty. Why should i get banned from live for this?
Surely illegal.
Darth Bradwart, The Dark Lord of the Sith-ATDF Co-Founder @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:11PM
The word is 'spoofed'.
How are they to tell you didn't install a drive without the lockouts on it?
Wii60 @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:13PM
There's an unspoken agreement that says you just tell them it red rings after an hour or so of gameplay. They don't test it that long and just replace it with a refurb.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:24PM
While I'm sure that's worked for some people that they won't test it that long, they can also check the error logs, which will clearly show whether or not the system has ever displayed the RRoD.
Edge @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:33PM
You keep using that word... "Illegal". I'm not sure you know what it means.
Wii60 @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:54PM
@Wired
Yeah, that's why you usually block the vents with a towel until it overheats during gameplay. Forces a Red Ring.
WiredKnight: Keeper of Threads @ Nov 22nd 2009 8:07PM
Ah yes. The good ol' towel trick. Don't forget to put a couple toothpicks in the vents to keep the fans from spinning.
Vcize @ Nov 22nd 2009 10:39PM
I don't think the 360 keeps any error logs. Before MS decided to also extend the warranty for video and e74 issues, I know countless people with those issues that called and said their console RROD'd after an hour and they all got theirs replaced no problem.
Darth Bradwart, The Dark Lord of the Sith-ATDF Co-Founder @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:08PM
A Microsoft EDD decision I fully support.
AlphakirA @ Nov 22nd 2009 9:48PM
Do you literally go through every topic and individual post and respond to everything?
Mr Mobius - the wandering artist @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:09PM
I'd actually consider it intelligent of Microsoft to wait until a time when a lot more modders will want Xbox Live for gaming, and ban them at that time. They are within their rights to ban those who break the EULA T&C so they may as well make a little money from those who they legally ban first of all.
If you modded your console, you knew the risks.
DarkNessBear @ Nov 22nd 2009 7:57PM
But, but DUDE! Don't you think it is messed up that the poor modders had to pay $50! $50!!! Right before getting banned? They haven't had to pay a cent until this, why should they start now!?
I hope with the money Microsoft made from those Xbox Live subscriptions, they divide it up amongst all the companies that all these idiot modders stole from.
HighFiveJesus @ Nov 22nd 2009 8:23PM
"Microsoft personally waited for a time when many people -- modders in this case -- would be purchasing Live subscriptions for popular games -- money that probably wouldn't be refunded after a ban"
That is pretty dirty too. Granted, its legal, but dirty.
Kinsey @ Nov 22nd 2009 9:53PM
The other argument is, Why would they put the man power to continuously ban people over a an amount of time when they know a whole ton of people are going to go get MW2 illegally and ban them all at once at that time and use little man power to do so.
Meh @ Nov 23rd 2009 7:31AM
If you modded your console, don't go on Live. Shit, I thought avoiding Internet connection was common sense for pirates.
T @ Nov 23rd 2009 9:53AM
Is it me...or does the timing of the bannings actually make a lot more sense then people want it to?
Think about it for a second. If you have just purchased a new Live account in order to play some AAA title online, then of course it will look like MS is banning people just after the purchase.
Because they can't ban somebody's console for violating the terms of XBL if the console isn't on XBL to violate the terms. So if 1000 people with modded consoles all stupidly sign up for XBL at the same time because some big title came out...then of course MS will have ban all 1000 of them in one huge group since their existance was just made known.
Duke @ Nov 23rd 2009 3:08PM
T, that is some pretty solid logic. Nice!
Jacksons @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:10PM
You broke the rules and got caught. Just own up to it and move on.
Orchard Pear @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:13PM
Good riddance to anyone banned for modding their console.
Less trash to deal with on Live.
Ghen @ Nov 22nd 2009 6:43PM
The proportion of idiots to intelligence is about the same in the modding community as it is on XBL. So unfortunately the ratio hasn't decreased.
AlphakirA @ Nov 22nd 2009 9:59PM
Not that I disagree with you about the trash that's on Live, but do you really think it was the 14 year old southern racist kids that were modding their consoles? I'm doubting it.
iamnotafish @ Nov 22nd 2009 10:06PM
I would say that the percentage among modders is even less. Modders have to have some semblance of technical experience to either mod their console to acquire the games. However, any douchebag 12 year old with daddy's credit card can buy a game, get onto Live and teabag you till the cows come home.
However, that is based purely on conjecture and not on evidence.
Silencio @ Nov 24th 2009 3:14PM
@ alph
"Southern racist kids?"
Nice stereotype asshole.
Wii60 @ Nov 22nd 2009 5:15PM
Microsoft is fully within their rights to moderate xbox live. Just as the console owners are free to modify their own consoles. It's all just a cat and mouse game. The only people doing anything wrong are the people who distribute pirated games.