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Reader Comments (127)

Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:02PM Joeybeast said

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awww. It's so cute that Datel is trying to take on Microsoft.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:12PM (Unverified) said

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I sort of hope they win though I have my doubts. But it would mean cheaper harddrives and memory cards so I do hope they fair well.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:25PM daytripper said

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I really hope Datel wins this one. MS has become too greedy when it comes to their HDD and memory cards. If Datel wins, the consumer wins.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:28PM (Unverified) said

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You can sue someone for anything haha
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:45PM Joeybeast said

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I'm wrong to think that Datel has no chance in hell to win?

There's no way this case will go to court.

It's simply not financially feasible for Datel to sue Microsoft.

They are just doing this for publicity.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:03PM El Capitaine said

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I tend to be an Xbox fanboy -

Despite them being a greedy corporation, I generally dislike to see them lose lawsuits or have shit happen to them because then that tends to higher prices or worse content for me, the consumer.

However, in this case, I hope Datel wins. I really envy how PS3 owners can stick any 2.5" drive in their system. And I also think that Microsoft's prices on hard drives are absolutely ridiculous - I can understand a slight markup because it's proprietary, but 2x-3x the price? No way. I hope this lawsuit lowers prices...Microsoft needs to realize that nobody likes paying so much...
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:06PM Reddjoey said

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Datel has a good argument but Microsoft will of course tell them them, if they want to get the MS seal of approval on accessories they will gladly allow competition.

It's 1985 all over again! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo#Seal_of_Quality
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:11PM Fullmetal Salchemist said

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I want Datel to have a case, but I don't think the antitrust laws apply to proprietary hardware. If they did, Apple would have been sued to oblivion years ago.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:18PM Brysonial the Bison said

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Whats next sueing nintendo for not allowing homebrew on the wii and stopping a grown mans persute of happiness! OR maby even microsoft being sued for the red ring! Yeah that will be the day when that happens!
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:19PM Brysonial the Bison said

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Whats next sueing nintendo for not allowing homebrew on the wii and stopping a grown mans persute of happiness! OR maby even microsoft being sued for the red ring! Yeah that will be the day when that happens!
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:27PM Joeybeast said

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Hey Aguiluz

Guess what a patent grants the patent holder.


The same story with razor and blade.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:28PM maveric101 said

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while i would love for MS to decrease their peripheral prices, i'm not really willing to let the law bend to allow it. you see, from a legal standpoint, i think Datel should lose. MS has a monopoly on XBOX cards, not all game console memory cards. if you didn't like it maybe you should have bought a PS3 instead, which performs nearly the same functions. this is similar to cases brought by Psystar (a company selling PCs with OSX) against Apple. they claimed that Apple was being monopolistic on OSX by not allowing it on other computers. they lost. basically, you are allowed to have a monopoly on the stuff in your device/service ecosystem, but not on the market as a whole. and MS does not have any kind of monopoly on the gaming market as a whole.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:33PM Mmmmz said

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I see no legal reason for Datel to win. This isn't anti-competitive since Microsoft has a right to license and handle its hardware any way it chooses. I also don't want them to win despite loving the idea of cheaper memory and hard drives.

It's Microsoft's console and they have every right to lockout any hardware, accessories they want. It's the same reason why they have every right to lockout unlicensed code and games. No one has ever challenged that and really, most unlicensed third party accessories are a gray area as it is.

Besides, say they do win, does Microsoft still have to offer repairs for any potential damage these accessories could cause? It could easily happen if there is a defect in the manufacturing process and it happened a lot in the past. Especially during the SNES era with third party accessories creating a mess for some people.

While it still sucks that Microsoft chose to block these cards it would be a risky precedent to let these kind of lawsuits win.

If people want to gun Microsoft down, sue where it makes sense and that's price manipulation and inflation for their accessories. That would actually do more good than this Datel business...
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 8:53PM DeepFriedSushi said

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datel backwards engineered these memory cards and pretty much all the products they sell which is incredibly unlawful to begin with in the first place. its basically like counterfeiting good then selling them for profit.

Datel has always been a scummy company always profiting off stuff that either promotes or is directly linked to hacking, cheating and pirating.

Some other great products by datel:
PSP battery tool (firmware modding), Boot discs (used for pirating), pro action replay (hacking memory address), datel memory cards (hacking achievements/achievements), and xsata (360 hdd connectivity kit used for hacking in multiplayer games)
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 9:37PM tabicat said

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DeepFriedSushi: You're an idiot. There's nothing illegal or even unethical about reverse engineering.
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Posted: Nov 24th 2009 2:56AM LightSpeedy said

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a bunch of armchair lawyers here who dont know a single thing about the law

aguiluz and white kid are the biggest morons though

anticompetitive? really? do you understand microsoft can block ANY piece of 3rd party hardware or software because its their system.

whats even funnier is memory cards are not necessary to even play the games, so
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Posted: Nov 24th 2009 9:52AM alinos said

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same thing applied with the fact MS had to buyout Apple so there could be fair competition in the generalised commercial OS department
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Posted: Nov 24th 2009 4:31PM MDizzy said

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Plain and simple. Microsoft owns the 360 and dictates who can and cannot make software and hardware for it. People apply the term "monopoly" very loosely. If Datel wants to make their own console they can do whatever they want in regards to 3rd party peripherals.

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Posted: Nov 26th 2009 6:48PM Caroso said

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The only reason MS blocked Datel is because Datel's products help Piracy/cheating a lot. If this does get to court then MS will most likely tell them to make it more secure for themselves or no deal.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:05PM MowDownJoe said

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On the one hand, Datel's products are mostly used for the sake of Pirates.

On the other hand, Microsoft is a bit douchey for forcing you to buy Microsoft products to have more storage on your 360.

Hmm...
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:12PM Joeybeast said

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Yeah, but you can't sue someone for being a douche.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:14PM (Unverified) said

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However you can sue them for breach of competition laws, seeing as they now hold a monopoly on storage devices for 360, it's not fair to shut off your system to thrid party competition.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:17PM Manifest37 said

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Competition is a glorious thing, but I'm afraid Datel will just end up being bought out.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:18PM Haggard said

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Monopoly laws about consoles always confused me. If everyone has legal grounds to make products for the 360, why can't people release games for it without paying fees to Microsoft?
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:36PM (Unverified) said

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@TheBaron im not sure but i think it has something to do with it being software, so it gets its on set of rules.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:37PM (Unverified) said

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@TheBaron but that doesnt matter, you pay to put your games on, so its not like they're closing it off to everyone like they are with these memory units
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 8:19PM RodrigoCard said

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The official X360 HDD is EASILY HACKABLE...
You can even use the Official Transfer Cable ;-)
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 8:56PM DeepFriedSushi said

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the thing is its because the datel memory cars use removable memory thats where the problem lies. if they had the meomry card in an enclosure ms probably wouldnt have had a problem with it. but these memory cards people are using specifically for the purpose of hacking game saves and achievements into their profile.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 8:58PM DeepFriedSushi said

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oh and they're not trying to be douches, they are trying to protect the integrity of xbox live and the achievements system.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:05PM spin cycle said

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Go Datel. Vendor lockout is bullcrap, and the DMCA shouldn't be used to allow it to happen.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:19PM R Planteer said

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The DMCA doesnt apply to this case in anyway. This is an antitrust/anti-competitive practice suit.

The DMCA is mostly about copyright laws, and punishing people who break and/or bypass copyright protection. It is viewed by many as actually being a bad thing. The DMCA is why its illegal to copy a copy-protected DVD, even if you are just making a backup for personal use.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 6:59PM spin cycle said

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The DMCA is how companies like MS keep Datel off their platforms. Same as with 3rd party printer ink cartridges. That's not what it should be for.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 7:12PM R Planteer said

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I will say it again, as a person who has a degree in network security and has taken classes about this topic.

The DMCA is not related to this lawsuit. MS is not using it to enforce this update that lets only their units work. MS is using the "its my damn invention I'll do whatever the fuck I want with it" clause.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 7:36PM spin cycle said

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I will say it again. I'm not talking about this lawsuit. I'm talking about how MS keeps people off their platform, and how other companies do it. This lawsuit is about whether MS is right to do so.

MS is enforcing their vendor lock-out through cryptographic methods with it is impossible (or at least difficult) to break and illegal to work around through various methods like replay attacks. Thus the DMCA is in play here.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 7:52PM R Planteer said

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Your earlier statement seems to clash with your later one, but Ill drop it for you.

I disagree. If I created a complex piece of equipment, I would want to control who was allowed to make devices that accessed and worked with that piece of equipment as well. You wouldnt want to create a new screwdriver (lets call it the ScrewU 3000) and all of a sudden a company you have never heard of started selling a new handle "only for the ScrewU 3000", wouldn't that upset you a little bit? Someone you dont know profiting off of your invention without your consent?
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 9:59PM R Planteer said

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Oh, dont misunderstand me johnny. I want Datel to win, because I want cheaper accessories for my Xbox 360. They are overpriced, there is no doubt.

However, if I was in charge of MS this would be my move too. And if the suits in charge of Datel and MS were to swap positions, both would do what the other is doing, because its smart business.

Dont try to put human morality into this. The only reason anyone here wants Datel to win is because it could save them money. Nothing else.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:06PM xSFx said

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I'm an Xbox 360 fanboy, and this is a good thing.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:44PM Jenks said

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I loved my Xbox and my 360, but my glasses aren't so green tinted that I think their storage, accessories, and xbox live prices aren't ridiculous.

I hope Datel wins, and that it has much bigger implications than these memory cards.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:07PM (Unverified) said

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I really don't know how I feel about this. Yes, Datel's products are used for illicit purposes on many occasions, but I don't like the idea of Microsoft rendering accessories useless....

I guess I'm siding with Datel. For now.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:18PM Haggard said

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But they're not exploiting the franchise enough, right?
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:32PM AoE said

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"Yes, Datel's products are used for illicit purposes on many occasions,"

Why does this even matter to you unless you own stock in MS/EA/etc.? I can understand it mattering to Datel and to MS... but why would it matter to you what other people do? I guess I just don't understand why some non-pirates moralize so much about piracy; do tell?

That said, although I am certain that MS is unfortunately in the right on this one and will win... I hope Datel has a shot since as many others have mentioned, MS prices for storage media is way out of line.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:35PM (Unverified) said

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Well, Piracy is the cause for not only higher prices, but for the current state of the PC gaming platform, among other things.

Plus, I don't like Gamerscore cheaters.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 7:44PM (Unverified) said

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@ Darth Bradwart, The Dark Lord of the Sith-ATDF Co-Founder

"Plus, I don't like Gamerscore cheaters."

YOU CAN CHEAT WITHOUT THIS!

Dismantle HDD/buy Xport (by Datel) - connect to PC & add any content you want.

Sure it could take a little longer (unless you have Xport) - but mods & gamerscore boosting is not being stopped by this.
That is what Microsoft want people to believe.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:10PM embassy said

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If I remember correctly, didn't MS just lock-out all *un-licensed* 3rd party memory units? I'm pretty sure Mad Catz has some units floating around.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:13PM kenny goo said

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Nope. The only hard drives and memory units that can be used for game content are officially licensed Microsoft products sold at hundreds of percent higher then their production value and comparable market value. See: anti-competitive business practices, which in this case classifies as vendor lockout.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:54PM (Unverified) said

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Hack hard drives still work tho..
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 9:32PM Unclear asdf said

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Mad Catz's products are licensed by Microsoft. Unofficial, but still licensed.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:10PM Mazrael said

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I think it's better to keep all the memory official. Just maybe MS need to just release bigger memory cards,if it's £30 for the MS 512mb, but around £10 for 4gb usb or pro stick duo, that's pretty steep really, why not an MS 4gb for £15-20??
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:10PM kenny goo said

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I hope this at least does *something*. If they don't win the case, get Microsoft to change things, or get some money for damages, I hope they can at least light a fire under their ass to make some progress with their anti-competitive proprietary bull shit.

I'm sick and fucking tired of having to buy Microsoft only wireless headsets, Wi-Fi adapters, wireless controllers, hard drives, and memory cards. It's really getting fucking ridiculous at this point. One of the reasons I feel my PS3 is just an overall superior piece of technology is its openness with all this stuff. Bluetooth headsets, built in Wi-Fi, third party wireless controllers, swappable laptop hard drives, and USB storage device make gaming so much less of a chore.

This isn't 1999, it's 2009. Get with the fucking program already.
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Posted: Nov 23rd 2009 5:14PM OptimumEDGE said

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QFT. It costs MS probably less than $5 to make a measly 512mb card. I honestly think they don't want to deal with the competition.
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