Say what you will about MMO market dominator Blizzard Entertainment, but it truly cares about the well-being of its competitors. In a recent interview with gaming magazine PC Zone, Blizzard's Shane Dabiri offered some helpful advice for his fellow MMO developers: "There are a lot of people that try to emulate World of Warcraft - and as flattering as that is our end it's definitely not the right move."
Dabiri posits that the MMORPG-playing community -- particularly those who've already sunk months into WoW -- want "to try something completely new and different" in their online games. This is terrible, terrible news for Snowstorm Interactive, whose fantasy-themed MMO Planet of ConflictMaking is due out next month. Time for some originality, guys. Ooh, we know! A superhero game! No, wait, a space simulator! Better yet, an interactive forum for sexual deviants! Brilliant!
Reader Comments (39)
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:34PM Otimus said
With these kind of games, it pretty much doesn't matter how much better the game is, how different the game is, how much cheaper the game is, what the game offers, any of that.
Most people are just going to go to WoW.
In a ways, sort of, it's kind of like how people go to iPods for MP3 players. Or Kleenex for sneezin' tissue. Though kleenex is a better sneezin' tissue than the iPod is an MP3 player.
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Most people are just going to go to WoW.
In a ways, sort of, it's kind of like how people go to iPods for MP3 players. Or Kleenex for sneezin' tissue. Though kleenex is a better sneezin' tissue than the iPod is an MP3 player.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:44PM DevilSei said
Yeah, alganon is a bloody brilliant example of WoW-clones. Its sad too, when its fellow a-lettered game, Allods, is a much better product, and is F2P to boot.
What I am happy about though, is F2P MMOs aiming to provide content and polish close to WoW, without the monthly fee. Specially when they add their own twists upon it.
Reply
What I am happy about though, is F2P MMOs aiming to provide content and polish close to WoW, without the monthly fee. Specially when they add their own twists upon it.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:38PM Shadowbender said
You don't mess with Blizzard. Blizzard messes with you!
Then again, Activision is filled with a bunch of woossies that crave one thing: money. But, Blizzard is a bit different, I guess.
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Then again, Activision is filled with a bunch of woossies that crave one thing: money. But, Blizzard is a bit different, I guess.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:52PM (Unverified) said
All businesses crave money, some hide it more than other.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist" springs to mind
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"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didnt exist" springs to mind
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:57PM Shadowbender said
Good point. Everyone craves money. But in all honesty, have you ever seen a company so greedy as to not care about what they put on the market as Activision?
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:44PM sonicspike41 said
Well there is Ubisoft and the Petz/Imagine games, and EA dumbing down sports games for the Wii.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:39PM BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam said
Hey, you know... the game industry would be better off with less clones, period.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:39PM shadowhowl1900 said
it will come to like this
"man i hate WoW....oh look a new MMORPG, lets play that now"
2 days later
"why the hell did i play that game? WoW so much better"
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"man i hate WoW....oh look a new MMORPG, lets play that now"
2 days later
"why the hell did i play that game? WoW so much better"
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:42PM Xoonaka said
I think originality has little to do with it, it's all about personal investment. WoW captured most the market by being very "casual" for its time, and by the time their competitors caught up, too many people had vested interest in WoW.
I still think it's going to take a huge IP to knock WoW down, but more than that it's going to take a game that makes you think back on WoW and remember how hoorrrrible it was (whether it was or not isn't really the issue, the perception is all that matters).
Don't know how you accomplish that, but Conan had a good start for me. Full audio was the primary reason, there. Problem was, it didn't continue, so after a while I remembered the GOOD parts of WoW, and switched back.
It's a hard line to walk. Here's to hoping SWTOR can do it!
Reply
I still think it's going to take a huge IP to knock WoW down, but more than that it's going to take a game that makes you think back on WoW and remember how hoorrrrible it was (whether it was or not isn't really the issue, the perception is all that matters).
Don't know how you accomplish that, but Conan had a good start for me. Full audio was the primary reason, there. Problem was, it didn't continue, so after a while I remembered the GOOD parts of WoW, and switched back.
It's a hard line to walk. Here's to hoping SWTOR can do it!
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:53PM (Unverified) said
TOR is potentially the only title that can do it.
Reply
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:56PM (Unverified) said
Well skill based systems have their own faults. Personally, I liked StarWars Galaxies skills system the most. You could only max 2 professions at most I think and you could always forget a profession and change it up.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:47PM Shagittarius said
Shadowbane was the best MMO to date. End of story!
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 6:50PM ch3burashka said
The past couple years have essentially proved Mr. Blizzard's statement.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:07PM LaughingTarget said
This is true. Unlike single player games that have solid endings, people quit playing a MMO when they get bored of it. Clones only work when the player wants more but
finished the current game. Since MMOs don't end, copying something to sell to a community that got tired of it is foolish.
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finished the current game. Since MMOs don't end, copying something to sell to a community that got tired of it is foolish.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:24PM Scuffles said
It just always urks me that people in general seem to think that somehow WOW was the first MMORPG and from it spawned all other MMORPG games and therefore all other MMORPG are inferior ....
sorry to say WOW wasn't the first MMORPG, It however did do a good job of picking and choosing what did and didn't work in other MMORPG that came before it and conglomeration all of that into a rather nice game along with adding a bit of its own seasonings here and there. I don't want to blow your minds but they weren't even the first fantasy adventure RPG, I know I know its a shock, just sit down and try to catch your breath.
WOW did bring a few new things with it to the table, but I hardly think any other game looking at WOW and saying hey that feature works we should use something similar, much in the way that WOW itself looked over the market and picked features that worked from other games, should be written off as a knockoff.
ZOMG a game with Elves, WOW CLONE WOW CLONE !!!!!!
People do want something different, something interesting and new but they also crave something familiar, its a nice and rather agitating paradox to dance around.
personally I think part of it is that a lot of the people who instantly claim clone have significant time and money already invested in WOW and feel the need to fanatically defend their game by attempting to belittle the competition at even the slightest provocation by any game that might steal even an infinitesimal market share away from WOW.
Then again WOW is on what its third expansion ? if general MMO progression follows suit its about out of steam, Generally your get between three to five expansions on an mmo before its put out to pasture and die a slow slow death while the developers move on with its replacement. So they might have a right to fearfully lash out at anything that resembles competition. I will however agree that the world defiantly doesn't need any more Silkroad Clones.
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sorry to say WOW wasn't the first MMORPG, It however did do a good job of picking and choosing what did and didn't work in other MMORPG that came before it and conglomeration all of that into a rather nice game along with adding a bit of its own seasonings here and there. I don't want to blow your minds but they weren't even the first fantasy adventure RPG, I know I know its a shock, just sit down and try to catch your breath.
WOW did bring a few new things with it to the table, but I hardly think any other game looking at WOW and saying hey that feature works we should use something similar, much in the way that WOW itself looked over the market and picked features that worked from other games, should be written off as a knockoff.
ZOMG a game with Elves, WOW CLONE WOW CLONE !!!!!!
People do want something different, something interesting and new but they also crave something familiar, its a nice and rather agitating paradox to dance around.
personally I think part of it is that a lot of the people who instantly claim clone have significant time and money already invested in WOW and feel the need to fanatically defend their game by attempting to belittle the competition at even the slightest provocation by any game that might steal even an infinitesimal market share away from WOW.
Then again WOW is on what its third expansion ? if general MMO progression follows suit its about out of steam, Generally your get between three to five expansions on an mmo before its put out to pasture and die a slow slow death while the developers move on with its replacement. So they might have a right to fearfully lash out at anything that resembles competition. I will however agree that the world defiantly doesn't need any more Silkroad Clones.
Posted: Dec 1st 2009 12:54AM D dogg said
"if general MMO progression follows suit its about out of steam, Generally your get between three to five expansions on an mmo before its put out to pasture and die a slow slow death while the developers move on with its replacement."
Honestly - The first REAL mass MMO I recall was Everquest. That was what, 1997? We are slightly over 11 years of MMO's so I'm not sure if we can say, "Generally your get... move on with its replacement."
Sony itself replaced EQ with EQ2. What other MMO's got canceled for a sequel? And actually, EQ isn't put out to pasture... it's still going, isn't it?
But then again, you can't blame developers, can you? Imagine if Valve were still creating Half-Life episodes today while HL2 were out. Modders, sure, they don't expect paychecks and health benefits to support a family from their modding (generally speaking of course).
So it IS a natural progression mainly because of technology.
The one thing World of Warcraft has going for it though is the artistic design alone holds up well even for earlier zones done for earlier technologies.
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Honestly - The first REAL mass MMO I recall was Everquest. That was what, 1997? We are slightly over 11 years of MMO's so I'm not sure if we can say, "Generally your get... move on with its replacement."
Sony itself replaced EQ with EQ2. What other MMO's got canceled for a sequel? And actually, EQ isn't put out to pasture... it's still going, isn't it?
But then again, you can't blame developers, can you? Imagine if Valve were still creating Half-Life episodes today while HL2 were out. Modders, sure, they don't expect paychecks and health benefits to support a family from their modding (generally speaking of course).
So it IS a natural progression mainly because of technology.
The one thing World of Warcraft has going for it though is the artistic design alone holds up well even for earlier zones done for earlier technologies.
Posted: Dec 1st 2009 4:17AM Vorbis said
I remember when WoW came out and everyone was calling it a clone, it really did steal everything from other games, it just did it well and thats why its become so big.
Kind of sad, pre-WoW there was a new fantasy MMO released every few months, now all we have is WoW and those sick of it have to look for something different.
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Kind of sad, pre-WoW there was a new fantasy MMO released every few months, now all we have is WoW and those sick of it have to look for something different.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:25PM BrianH said
i think that it is obvious, that unless some new player enters the market with radical new ideas that blizzard will own the majority of the online market.
even if it isn't wow, they already know so much from it that there next MMO is just as easily going to be a success.
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even if it isn't wow, they already know so much from it that there next MMO is just as easily going to be a success.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:38PM User Formerly Known as Dave said
I played WoW long enough to realize it was the same old grind you find in any MMO game.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:47PM Rawrmander said
Two minutes? That's how long a run I gave the free trial before realizing I just got back from work.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2009 7:48PM dogmaticatheist said
I find it interesting what lengths players of non-WoW MMO's will go to defend their chosen time waster. It doesn't matter if (LOTOR,AoC,Vanguard,Warhammer,etc) has some features that WoW doesn't, it's a clone, and a poor one at that.
In any case, the first MMO without fetch quests will have my money. And BioWare has stated that TOR will not have them, so it looks like I'm on board.
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In any case, the first MMO without fetch quests will have my money. And BioWare has stated that TOR will not have them, so it looks like I'm on board.
Posted: Nov 30th 2009 10:41PM Nadril said
You really need to just accept the fact that the idea of quests is just something that will not go away from a majority of MMO releases. It's not that they are a "WoW clone" but they are just an MMO that is in that same sort of style. Just like WW2 shooters might inherently be the "same" or even fighting games MMOs do tend to stick to a few different types. You might have a 2D or 3D fighter, for example, both which generally have their own sort of style one would expect from it.
I'm not going to argue that the industry hasn't made many attempts to move away from the current MMO mold. I do think that a lot of developers, as well, don't really understand what makes WoW a success (I'm not talking about anything marketing related here at all, but simply how all of the features work together) and will try and emulate that same structure but with various differences that just don't work out in the long run.
I wouldn't mind for developers to innovate a bit, and I'm even talking beyond just going back to a skill-based model and call it innovation. It's not that a class system is a bad idea (It's great because often in a skill based game you go after certain features to make you like a certain class) but some developers seem to think that "cloning" a 10 year old game is somehow more acceptable. I do think that MMO developers will start to look at more reasons why an MMO is fun to play instead of looking at what people are doing.
MMOs have sort of gotten me disappointed as of recently though. I'm sort of waiting for the Aion "Visions" update to see if it is as good of an update as the trailer suggests, but currently I'm MMO-less.
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I'm not going to argue that the industry hasn't made many attempts to move away from the current MMO mold. I do think that a lot of developers, as well, don't really understand what makes WoW a success (I'm not talking about anything marketing related here at all, but simply how all of the features work together) and will try and emulate that same structure but with various differences that just don't work out in the long run.
I wouldn't mind for developers to innovate a bit, and I'm even talking beyond just going back to a skill-based model and call it innovation. It's not that a class system is a bad idea (It's great because often in a skill based game you go after certain features to make you like a certain class) but some developers seem to think that "cloning" a 10 year old game is somehow more acceptable. I do think that MMO developers will start to look at more reasons why an MMO is fun to play instead of looking at what people are doing.
MMOs have sort of gotten me disappointed as of recently though. I'm sort of waiting for the Aion "Visions" update to see if it is as good of an update as the trailer suggests, but currently I'm MMO-less.
Posted: Dec 1st 2009 12:16AM dogmaticatheist said
Nadril:
I'm not against the idea of quests, I'm against the "fetch" quests. i.e.
- Get me 10 wolf ears
- Kill 10 bears
etc, etc. ad nauseum.
I'm MMO-less as well. I've tried many of them. The fantasy MMO's are all "me too" WoW clones, and the ones set in other genres are very WoW-like, but are not as polished and lack a lot of content.
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I'm not against the idea of quests, I'm against the "fetch" quests. i.e.
- Get me 10 wolf ears
- Kill 10 bears
etc, etc. ad nauseum.
I'm MMO-less as well. I've tried many of them. The fantasy MMO's are all "me too" WoW clones, and the ones set in other genres are very WoW-like, but are not as polished and lack a lot of content.
Posted: Dec 1st 2009 4:07AM ParasiteEvil said
I hear Planet of ConflictMaking already has two expansions lined up.
Planet of ConflictMaking: The Flaming Jihad
and
Planet of ConflictMaking: Anger of the Undead Ruler
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Planet of ConflictMaking: The Flaming Jihad
and
Planet of ConflictMaking: Anger of the Undead Ruler
Posted: Dec 1st 2009 10:10AM Misfit Toy said
I still say Lord of the Rings Online is underappreciated. While it did take some conventions of WoW, lets face it...Lord of the Rings was around before Warcraft. So naturally its going to be high fantasy based. But it still adds new ideas to the genre. Which, ironically enough, Blizzard has then incorporated into THEIR game.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2009 11:28AM (Unverified) said
WoW was one in a long line of fantasy MMOs a few years ago. I was an avid EQ player and a there was a new flavor of the week, many copying EQs format. WoW was was proclaimed to be the EQ killer and another denounced it as the newest fad.
WoW was the game that finally usurped EQ. It's no doubt a great game and it addressed the issues people had with EQ and was well made. I still believe EQ and EQ2 are better games, but that is my preference. I could never get a good group of players to hang with in EQ2, but I still feel it is the best MMO I've ever played.
My point is, WoW will have players for years to come. The time investment and nostalgia will keep players (like me) only have 1 good MMO life in them. I can't ever dedicate 300+ days played to a game again.
What it is going to take for WoW to be dethroned is a new game that pulls the casuals out of WoW and brings in the future MMOers first. WoW's graphics being stylized helps them from being so dated, but eventually they will be. I'm really we'd see SOE take some lessons from WoW on a technical standpoint and release EQ3.
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WoW was the game that finally usurped EQ. It's no doubt a great game and it addressed the issues people had with EQ and was well made. I still believe EQ and EQ2 are better games, but that is my preference. I could never get a good group of players to hang with in EQ2, but I still feel it is the best MMO I've ever played.
My point is, WoW will have players for years to come. The time investment and nostalgia will keep players (like me) only have 1 good MMO life in them. I can't ever dedicate 300+ days played to a game again.
What it is going to take for WoW to be dethroned is a new game that pulls the casuals out of WoW and brings in the future MMOers first. WoW's graphics being stylized helps them from being so dated, but eventually they will be. I'm really we'd see SOE take some lessons from WoW on a technical standpoint and release EQ3.
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