"I'd like them to try it once," Wada said about Modern Warfare 2. "If they play it once, they'd realize how incorrect that label is." Just like the subtitles.
Wada wants Japanese gamers to stop discriminating against Western games
by JC Fletcher 
on Dec 8th 2009 5:00PM
258
"I'd like them to try it once," Wada said about Modern Warfare 2. "If they play it once, they'd realize how incorrect that label is." Just like the subtitles.
Reader Comments (258)
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:28PM samfish said
Not really.
FPS games in particular haven't had any significant gameplay evolutions since Quake, really. Japanese gamers tend to like their games to have an arcadey feel to them with gameplay that has a more 'snappy' feel to it.
Western games are more typically big, cinematic experiences with a lack of emphasis on gameplay.
In other words, they've had like 14 years at least to figure out that they don't like what western developers are selling. Speaking as someone who also has a general distaste for western made games, I don't see how that would be considered missing out after all this time.
Reply
FPS games in particular haven't had any significant gameplay evolutions since Quake, really. Japanese gamers tend to like their games to have an arcadey feel to them with gameplay that has a more 'snappy' feel to it.
Western games are more typically big, cinematic experiences with a lack of emphasis on gameplay.
In other words, they've had like 14 years at least to figure out that they don't like what western developers are selling. Speaking as someone who also has a general distaste for western made games, I don't see how that would be considered missing out after all this time.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:34PM (Unverified) said
"lack of emphasis on gameplay"
You are kidding me right? If anything that is the number one focus with any Western developer, gameplay.
Of course you bring up the FPS argument, but why don't we talk about rpgs, action and adventure games, puzzle games, etc... Western devs have done more to innovate in many of the different genres than most Japanese devs have.
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You are kidding me right? If anything that is the number one focus with any Western developer, gameplay.
Of course you bring up the FPS argument, but why don't we talk about rpgs, action and adventure games, puzzle games, etc... Western devs have done more to innovate in many of the different genres than most Japanese devs have.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:53PM AoE said
@samfish,
FPS is not my favorite genre either, but that's no reason to be a jackass. Here's an experiment for you: Play 1/2hr of Quake 1, then play 1/2hr of Bioshock. Then try to say with a straight face what you just said, that there has been no significant gameplay evolution in the genre. If you honestly still believe it at that point you're either insane or too much of a weeaboo to see the forest for the trees.
Also your arcadey snappy game argument is complete bullshit and you know it. Or did you forget about the popularity of dating sims, jrpgs and the like? If anything western development has been focused on twitch-action games longer and more intensely than Japan.
If you genuinely have a distaste for western games you simply haven't been exposed to enough of them, there is something great out there for every taste. And please keep in mind that EA/Activision/Ubi aren't the entirety of western development. Paradox, 1C Company, Kalypso and the like produce/publish a wide variety of games that are nothing like the offerings from the megapublishers. You'd know this if you spent time with western-developed games instead of dismissing them out of hand.
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FPS is not my favorite genre either, but that's no reason to be a jackass. Here's an experiment for you: Play 1/2hr of Quake 1, then play 1/2hr of Bioshock. Then try to say with a straight face what you just said, that there has been no significant gameplay evolution in the genre. If you honestly still believe it at that point you're either insane or too much of a weeaboo to see the forest for the trees.
Also your arcadey snappy game argument is complete bullshit and you know it. Or did you forget about the popularity of dating sims, jrpgs and the like? If anything western development has been focused on twitch-action games longer and more intensely than Japan.
If you genuinely have a distaste for western games you simply haven't been exposed to enough of them, there is something great out there for every taste. And please keep in mind that EA/Activision/Ubi aren't the entirety of western development. Paradox, 1C Company, Kalypso and the like produce/publish a wide variety of games that are nothing like the offerings from the megapublishers. You'd know this if you spent time with western-developed games instead of dismissing them out of hand.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:54PM samfish said
"If anything that is the number one focus with any Western developer, gameplay. "
Er...no. It isn't. Even western developers will admit to that in interviews that it's a weak area for them.
For western studios, gameplay is just a means to an end to tell a story usually. It's why FPSs are all so similar or why GTA still plays like awkward shit with terrible controls.
"but why don't we talk about rpgs, action and adventure games, puzzle games, etc..."
Yes, lets.
I'm sure that if you ACTUALLY wanted to discuss gameplay and gameplay mechanics (most people don't know what that is, though), for every western game you list that wasn't derivative in that department I could name 2 Japanese equivalent games.
I mean, RPGs it might be getting about equal, I'll grant, but action, adventure and puzzle? It's not even a contest.
Reply
Er...no. It isn't. Even western developers will admit to that in interviews that it's a weak area for them.
For western studios, gameplay is just a means to an end to tell a story usually. It's why FPSs are all so similar or why GTA still plays like awkward shit with terrible controls.
"but why don't we talk about rpgs, action and adventure games, puzzle games, etc..."
Yes, lets.
I'm sure that if you ACTUALLY wanted to discuss gameplay and gameplay mechanics (most people don't know what that is, though), for every western game you list that wasn't derivative in that department I could name 2 Japanese equivalent games.
I mean, RPGs it might be getting about equal, I'll grant, but action, adventure and puzzle? It's not even a contest.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:01PM (Unverified) said
"but action, adventure and puzzle? It's not even a contest."
I'm glad we agree the west is so far ahead in those genres.
Reply
I'm glad we agree the west is so far ahead in those genres.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:01PM samfish said
"Play 1/2hr of Quake 1, then play 1/2hr of Bioshock. Then try to say with a straight face what you just said, that there has been no significant gameplay evolution in the genre."
I have and I can say that with a straight face. It's the same disembodied hand for the past 16 years. Different weapons might add new gameplay mechanics, but you're still playing the same fundamental game. What has changed in FPS games over the years is presentation.
'Snappy' might not be the right word, but even dating sims and RPGs have an arcade heart about them. If I wasn't going home in 2 minutes, I'd elaborate more on that.
And saying I have a distaste for western games isn't the same as saying I don't like any of them and am close minded about them. I don't buy games based on what region they come from...but my gaming collection this gen is probably about 80:20 in favor of eastern made games.
Reply
I have and I can say that with a straight face. It's the same disembodied hand for the past 16 years. Different weapons might add new gameplay mechanics, but you're still playing the same fundamental game. What has changed in FPS games over the years is presentation.
'Snappy' might not be the right word, but even dating sims and RPGs have an arcade heart about them. If I wasn't going home in 2 minutes, I'd elaborate more on that.
And saying I have a distaste for western games isn't the same as saying I don't like any of them and am close minded about them. I don't buy games based on what region they come from...but my gaming collection this gen is probably about 80:20 in favor of eastern made games.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:03PM (Unverified) said
What? Shooters have evolved by a lot since their inception.
Play Goldeneye, then Halo 1, then play Killzone 2 and tell me nothing has changed.
Reply
Play Goldeneye, then Halo 1, then play Killzone 2 and tell me nothing has changed.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:05PM (Unverified) said
HAHA! You idiots fell for this story, Wada is just saying those to create some sort of pseudo controversy to hype MW2.
There are so many Americans that don't play JRPGs and discriminate Japanese games in general as inferior. Just read the comments on this site jeez, it's the same BS that they have there. Do you have a friend that admits that they play those extremely popular date-sims?
Give me a f*cking break, different cultures love different things. Gun culture is not that big in Japan, while hair is (just watch their variety shows). The opposite can be said here, where the predominance of bald protagonists are sickening.
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There are so many Americans that don't play JRPGs and discriminate Japanese games in general as inferior. Just read the comments on this site jeez, it's the same BS that they have there. Do you have a friend that admits that they play those extremely popular date-sims?
Give me a f*cking break, different cultures love different things. Gun culture is not that big in Japan, while hair is (just watch their variety shows). The opposite can be said here, where the predominance of bald protagonists are sickening.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:10PM (Unverified) said
Well the same could be said about Street Fighter
same moves different dressing
Reply
same moves different dressing
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:54PM LaughingTarget said
The story in Modern Warfare 2 trumps anything that's ever come out of Japan. It makes sense, has truly surprising twists, and is riveting. Name a Japanese game that does all three of those.
Then for gameplay, tell me Mirror's Edge or Assassin's Creed is weak.
Reply
Then for gameplay, tell me Mirror's Edge or Assassin's Creed is weak.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 7:03PM Vidikron said
"It's the same disembodied hand for the past 16 years."
I'm not sure where you're going with this. I mean, you could make the same argument about JRPGs.... They're the same menu driven games they've been for the past 20 years. In fact, I'd argue that FPS have evolved more than JRPGs... with the latter arguably having been passed long ago by Western RPGs.
The truth is that both cultures tend to play certain game types more than others and have genres that are either fairly stagnant or have progressed slowly for whatever reason. But I don't even think that's the main point here. The original point was that the Japanese seem to intentionally discriminate against Western games whereas Western gamers are more open to playing any game even though certain genres may still dominate.
Reply
I'm not sure where you're going with this. I mean, you could make the same argument about JRPGs.... They're the same menu driven games they've been for the past 20 years. In fact, I'd argue that FPS have evolved more than JRPGs... with the latter arguably having been passed long ago by Western RPGs.
The truth is that both cultures tend to play certain game types more than others and have genres that are either fairly stagnant or have progressed slowly for whatever reason. But I don't even think that's the main point here. The original point was that the Japanese seem to intentionally discriminate against Western games whereas Western gamers are more open to playing any game even though certain genres may still dominate.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 7:50PM Snow Leopard said
Big cinematic experiences with less of a focus on gameplay? When you say that, it instantly brings to my mind all the top Japanese developed games of the last decade and a half as well as all the precise reasons why I got tired of playing them.
Devil May Cry, MGS, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Tales of Whatever Vague Word They Want To Make Up; these are all titles filled with non-interactive cutscenes and stiff translated dialogue, that while dazzling in 1999, now seem two-dimensional in comparison to the immersion and interaction western titles offer. I want to be able to choose what my character says, customize what he looks like, and see the story play out through his eyes rather than being ripped forth unceremoniously every five minutes to continuously press the X button while cringe-inducing dialogue crawls across the screen.
Japans stuck while Western Developers are moving forward. We grew up as an industry admiring their games and have since then taken the best parts of that tradition and put our own spin on them. It's time Japanese developers and gamers learn to look elsewhere for inspiration as well.
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Devil May Cry, MGS, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Tales of Whatever Vague Word They Want To Make Up; these are all titles filled with non-interactive cutscenes and stiff translated dialogue, that while dazzling in 1999, now seem two-dimensional in comparison to the immersion and interaction western titles offer. I want to be able to choose what my character says, customize what he looks like, and see the story play out through his eyes rather than being ripped forth unceremoniously every five minutes to continuously press the X button while cringe-inducing dialogue crawls across the screen.
Japans stuck while Western Developers are moving forward. We grew up as an industry admiring their games and have since then taken the best parts of that tradition and put our own spin on them. It's time Japanese developers and gamers learn to look elsewhere for inspiration as well.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 9:04PM TwEE said
Not like I give a shit one way or the other if something is western or Japanese. I like/hate them equally, but I agree with samfish for the most part, especially when somebody suggests Bioshock as the poster child for western gaming, or deep gaming or as proof that western games are better.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 10:37PM AoE said
@samfish,
"I have and I can say that with a straight face. It's the same disembodied hand for the past 16 years. Different weapons might add new gameplay mechanics, but you're still playing the same fundamental game. What has changed in FPS games over the years is presentation."
So you honestly believe there is no difference between the AI of Quake and the AI of Bioshock? Really? There is sooo much more than AI and visual elements that have changed, I mention AI just because it's the most painfully obvious. You'd have to be a weeaboo fanboy to not see that at the very least, AI, which has a dramatic effect on single-player gameplay, has evolved dramatically in the past decade and a half or so since Quake 1 first saw the light of day. Hell, the very fact that these games can tell compelling stories in itself is a MASSIVE evolution since the days of Quake 1.
Look, you're welcome to be just as close-minded a fanboy as you'd like, it doesn't make you right however, it just makes you look like... well, like you seem to right now based on the downvotes all of your comments here have recieved... a ridiculous fanboy and a laughing-stock for it.
Reply
"I have and I can say that with a straight face. It's the same disembodied hand for the past 16 years. Different weapons might add new gameplay mechanics, but you're still playing the same fundamental game. What has changed in FPS games over the years is presentation."
So you honestly believe there is no difference between the AI of Quake and the AI of Bioshock? Really? There is sooo much more than AI and visual elements that have changed, I mention AI just because it's the most painfully obvious. You'd have to be a weeaboo fanboy to not see that at the very least, AI, which has a dramatic effect on single-player gameplay, has evolved dramatically in the past decade and a half or so since Quake 1 first saw the light of day. Hell, the very fact that these games can tell compelling stories in itself is a MASSIVE evolution since the days of Quake 1.
Look, you're welcome to be just as close-minded a fanboy as you'd like, it doesn't make you right however, it just makes you look like... well, like you seem to right now based on the downvotes all of your comments here have recieved... a ridiculous fanboy and a laughing-stock for it.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 10:41PM AoE said
@TwEE,
You have serious reading comprehension problems if you think I offered up Bioshock as, what did you call it? "the poster child for western gaming"? Seriously dude, go back and take your time reading (don't be afraid to go over a word or sentence more than once if they don't make sense to you the first time) and you'll see that I suggested it as an example of how much evolution has occurred in the FPS genre in the 13 years since Quake 1 first dropped. Make sense?
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You have serious reading comprehension problems if you think I offered up Bioshock as, what did you call it? "the poster child for western gaming"? Seriously dude, go back and take your time reading (don't be afraid to go over a word or sentence more than once if they don't make sense to you the first time) and you'll see that I suggested it as an example of how much evolution has occurred in the FPS genre in the 13 years since Quake 1 first dropped. Make sense?
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:31PM Danielnator said
Seriously, innovative or interesting games coming out of Japan are few and far in between. We're not in the 90s anymore, putting out the same crap over and over again only works for so long guys. Have fun with your repetetive JRPGs and SHMUPs.
Reply
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:06PM Hooch said
Even now, there have been people in Japan using the label youge- (literally 'Western games') with a terribly discriminatory meaning.
HEY! That's unacceptable, those Western Games are trying hard to fit into a vastly different culture, and all you Japanese spout racism! DESPICABLE!
/sarcasm
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HEY! That's unacceptable, those Western Games are trying hard to fit into a vastly different culture, and all you Japanese spout racism! DESPICABLE!
/sarcasm
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:14PM squeehunter said
Yeah, they're into different things, it's as simple as that.Take a look at what changes were made to the American version of Dragon Warrior VIII and you'll see what we value versus what they do.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:07PM karmaghost said
That's ok, they can discriminate all they want. I do it with Japanese games all the time.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:22PM BananaBoat said
What is this railfan you speak of? If you guys need me, I'll be playing bus driver.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:07PM Puertoricarious said
it's a two way street. jrpgs get a pretty bad rap sometimes due to their "japanese-ness" and lack of guns and gore. and i remember a bunch of halo fanboys whining about the anime-styling of halo legends.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:11PM (Unverified) said
Why wouldn't they complain? It looks ridiculous: crazy hair on military soldiers, crappy animation, cheesy dialogue etc... It doesn't fit with the games at all.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:15PM squeehunter said
Yeah but... that's... just what he was explaining... my brain.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:44PM TheDarkWayne said
seriously, what besides the absolute shittiest of games nowadays have bad animation?
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:46PM (Unverified) said
Wow, are you looking for a reason to complain?
He was talking about the Halo: Legends shorts, and I told him why they sucked. I wasn't talking about the game itself.
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He was talking about the Halo: Legends shorts, and I told him why they sucked. I wasn't talking about the game itself.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:02PM maveric101 said
i like anime and i like halo, and the general art style of halo legends is fine, it's just that the they draw the MJOLNIR suit funky. for instance, those things on the shoulders are drawn way too tall in the anime.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:12PM Puertoricarious said
dreaded fear, thank you for proving my point.
a lot of the criticisms that i see against japanese games tend less to worry about the actual game and how it manages to differentiate itself, and rely more on a "such and such trait is automatically a bad thing" argument, eg. all the stereotypes of japanese games/anime in these comments. it's like saying country songs are bad because they are country, or rap music is bad because its rap, or rock music is bad because it's rock. it's not ACTUALLY an argument, it's just an (unfair) view of a type that often proves ignorance of said type rather than knowledge of it, and it fails to actually give the genre a fair shake or examine the works on their own merit.
and like i said, it's a two way street, what i've said above can be said for japanese view of testosterone-infused, guns and explosions everywhere western games.
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a lot of the criticisms that i see against japanese games tend less to worry about the actual game and how it manages to differentiate itself, and rely more on a "such and such trait is automatically a bad thing" argument, eg. all the stereotypes of japanese games/anime in these comments. it's like saying country songs are bad because they are country, or rap music is bad because its rap, or rock music is bad because it's rock. it's not ACTUALLY an argument, it's just an (unfair) view of a type that often proves ignorance of said type rather than knowledge of it, and it fails to actually give the genre a fair shake or examine the works on their own merit.
and like i said, it's a two way street, what i've said above can be said for japanese view of testosterone-infused, guns and explosions everywhere western games.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:17PM (Unverified) said
@David
The problem is they are marketing Halo: Legends to people who, I don't know, PLAY HALO.
Halo has a universe, and a cannon, and I can totally see why people would be upset with the direction that Halo: Legends is going.
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The problem is they are marketing Halo: Legends to people who, I don't know, PLAY HALO.
Halo has a universe, and a cannon, and I can totally see why people would be upset with the direction that Halo: Legends is going.
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:08PM (Unverified) said
Seeing how much I rag on the japanese game industry I can't really fault them for feeling the same way about us.
Other than they're in the wrong :P
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Other than they're in the wrong :P
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 6:14PM (Unverified) said
it is a bit strange that most gamers there have not tasted the fruit of Valve and Bioware
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:16PM squeehunter said
Like they don't do that in Western games? At least the last part.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:16PM (Unverified) said
@Solace
How many people would complain about that last part?
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How many people would complain about that last part?
Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:41PM Bubbameister33 said
Throw some tentacles in the game somewhere too. I heard they like that over there.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2009 5:47PM aughscreennames said
Compared to western characters which have no hair, out of this world hulk like muscles, and a nice set of tits?
Dont act like western games dont have ridiculous stereotypes too.
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Dont act like western games dont have ridiculous stereotypes too.
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