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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:25PM (Unverified) said

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Not releasing it to half your customer base probably didn't help either.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:29PM (Unverified) said

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And here we go, another thread full of ps3 fanboys whining about how it's not on ps3.

You even have a 360, why do you care?
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:31PM (Unverified) said

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Not a fanboy comment, a fact. Exclusives aren't the way of the future. When you spend that much money developing the actual game ($110M), and add more for big DLC, it's not good business to limit it to one platform (no matter how big the check was).
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:33PM sonicspike41 said

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And here we go, another thread with tmac bitching about people he thinks are PS3 fanboys.

Tmac, if the game releases on two consoles the dlc should as well. You'd probably be the first to bitch if you bought the game for 360 and later they announced PS3 only DLC that interested you.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:34PM (Unverified) said

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When you're working with $400+ million in profit, anything you do is pretty much good business. They got an extra $50 million from MS and from what I remember seeing just barely broke over that, so if anyone made a bad move it was MS.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:35PM (Unverified) said

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But who is to say that PS3 owners wouldn't have purchased more than 50 million dollars worth of DLC?
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:40PM (Unverified) said

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Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't have. Sony obviously didn't feel like you wanted it that bad, so get mad at them for not even trying to get it. I know they can't win a bidding war, but they didn't even give an effort.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:41PM (Unverified) said

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Looking at sales figures, approximlately 7.4 million people bought GTA IV for 360, compared to 6 million for the PS3. But I'd bet that the numbers would have been closer (or even reversed) if the DLC hadn't been exclusive. The multi-system owners likely bought the version with the DLC.

Either way, that's at least six million customers Rockstar ignored.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:44PM (Unverified) said

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Tmac, Sony doesn't have that kind of money like Microsoft. They can't just drop fifty million at the drop of a hat. Even Tretton admitted that (and made fun of it, with "I love their money. They've got more money than God.").

It's not about spending the most, it's about 'spending clever'.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:46PM AoE said

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It was a great move for MS, it got fence-sitters to buy 360s. I personally know at least 2 formerly hardcore PS2 fanboys who now game on the Xbox 360 and don't own PS3s purely because they loved GTA so much that they didn't want to miss out on the extra content.

Of course, GTA IV isn't the only game they've bought for the 360, so MS I am sure is happy with the way things worked out, I doubt my friends are the only two people who arrived at 360 ownership this way.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:47PM (Unverified) said

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I know they can't win a bidding war with MS, I just said that. The problem was they didn't even pretend like they were trying. You'd be surprised how many people you can fool if you at least act like you want your buyers to have something great.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:53PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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Sprinkles......I thought you said you weren't trolling anymore dude...well THATS trolling....and its going to get you banned yet again....
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:04PM MystileArmor said

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If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and shits like a duck, it's probably a duck.
Sprinkles = Sprinkles
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:07PM deathxrebirth said

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tmac, how was he whining? You're such a god damn troll it makes me sick.

I am not whining, I OWN a 360, I have played Ballad of Gay Tony (but not lost and the damned). It does not change the fact that GTA4 sold 6 million on PS3. 6 million potential customers.

Even if only HALF of the customer base bought both DLC, that would still be far more money than they made on the incentive to keep it exclusive.

Throw in the fact that Xbox piracy is rampant and PS3 is still unhackable.

Dude, it is simple logic and simple math. If you equate that to whining, than you have a little troll problem. You must be a very pleasant person to be around in real life.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:08PM (Unverified) said

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Perhaps some people fell off the fence in Microsoft's side of the yard, but not everyone.

I bought a PS3 because I was heavily invested in the PS2 and PS1 platforms that I wanted to continue to play all my old games and the new stuff coming out with the convenience of doing it in one machine, so the choice was clear to me.

But their decision to me has weakened my brand loyalty. I was pretty fucking hardcore about GTA, owning every title except GTA(1) and the London 1969 title (pre-GTA III).

But thanks to the exclusivity to Microsoft, I don't feel as loyal to the GTA brand. Half of it is the shitty ass driving (aka trying to be more "realistic" when the reason I loved GTA was because it was "over the top") and the other half was the fact that my console of choice was being ignored due to an exclusivity agreement with the competitor.

It's business and I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that I felt left out in the cold on the platform that the franchise really took off on anyways. Doesn't matter, though, I wouldn't buy the DLC even if it came to the PS3. I listened to a bunch of Gloria Gaynor and got over it.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:12PM RKN said

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It's hilarious how whatever Sprinkles calls other people, it manifests itself as exactly that, a lying, racist, hypocritical piece of shit as it calls me. Wonderful.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:22PM laser beams said

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i don't even know what TakeTwo is whining about- it's not like they lost money on this DLC. it was funded by Microsoft. but if i was microsoft i'd be a little pissed that my investment didn't really pay off. Take Two should be thankful that they made enough money off of GTA4 to keep them afloat through the rest of 2008 and the first part of 2009. the extra $50 million dollars was easy money, icing on the cake- as there is no way that they spent even half of that money on the development of these 2 crappy expansions.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:50PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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yea laser you are right....sill them for wanting to MAKE money instead of just barely breaking even on a product...
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 10:35PM Ordeith said

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If they were true fans they would have known where the content was and purchased accordingly.
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Posted: Dec 18th 2009 1:04AM Skor said

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I hope that that "half of your customer base" thing included us PC people.
Sh_t is bananas.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 11:39PM (Unverified) said

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@deathxrebirth

the ps3 is not unhackable. no piece of hardware is unhackable, and saying so only demonstrates ignorance. i would hardly say xbox 360 piracy is rampant just because you can do it. piracy has nothing to do with console exclusives, it's still essentially a non-issue to developers except on pc.

microsoft built a better relationship with t2/rockstar, period. it could be money, but i doubt it's just that. remember when gta was ps2 first, everything else later? developers want to develop for the popular console from the manufacturer that's easy to work with.

sony has exclusives, nintendo has exclusives, and microsoft has exclusives. get over it.

sure you have a bigger potential audience with a multiplatform strategy, but an exclusive strategy for certain titles can be an advantage. making an exclusive game means you'll get funding and/or marketing support from the console maker. multiplatform means you need more development time, more man hours, and for many releases it's not worth it - just release the game on the most popular platform.

everyone knew from the beginning that xbox 360 would sell more. it was always cheaper until just a while ago. you should have expected things like this. lost and the damned sucked. ballad of gay tony is good, but it's not like it adds more to the map or anything. less than 10% of my gta play time is spent on the story. it's not a big deal.
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Posted: Dec 18th 2009 12:42AM deathxrebirth said

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@ak47

What you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no up votes, and may God have mercy on your soul.

-principal
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Posted: Dec 18th 2009 2:37AM That Burning Sensation said

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If Rockstar puts Microsoft before gamers again, I will not only NOT buy GTA5 new, I will buy it used from Gamestop. I will enjoy it and Rockstar wouldn't have made a dime from me.
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Posted: Dec 18th 2009 11:32AM likedamaster said

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"Not releasing it to half your customer base probably didn't help either."

This might be a logical argument but T2 obviously had no choice, the content is exclusive and paid for by Microsoft.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:26PM (Unverified) said

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Yeah, they released it when most people traded the game in already. I do think it was a smart decision to put them on a disk without the need of the original game for the reason stated above.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:47PM AoE said

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Do most people trade in games? Out of a dozen or so gamers I know, I can think of all of one who trades in games with any regularity, and only 2 others, myself included, who have traded in games at all. Most people I know prefer to keep a library of games they've played so they can revisit them again or at least show off the collection...
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:57PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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I don't trade in games...my brother does with his sports titles sometimes...

I just dont see the point....its really not worth it...I pay $40-60 for a game and you want to give me $15? FUCK YOU....

I was pissed when I gave my lil brother all my PS2 games and PS2 back in 2007 and he traded damn near all the games for bullshit....100+ games just GONE....
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:00PM (Unverified) said

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Go to your local Gamestop, and you will see many GTA4. And yes, many people do trade in, or Gamestop would never be a viable business.

There are also other means of trading such as the internet (Goozex, CAG, etc...) I traded GTA4 using Goozex.

Just because your circle of friends don't trade in, doesn't mean millions of others don't.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:03PM (Unverified) said

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Goozex's values are usually alright. I usually keep a game unless I hate it. If I hate it, I'll sell it on eBay and cut out the middleman.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 11:00PM AoE said

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@Demoman Fear (Anger management),

I was asking a genuine question, there was no call to be a snarky ass in your reply.

Anyhow, yes I have been in a gamestop before and I realize that there are millions of gamers who trade in games. HOWEVER, you will correct me if I am wrong, but there are well over 100 million current-gen consoles in the wild. You can have several million gamers trading in games and still be in a relative minority. If for example only 10% of those console owners trade in games, you've got 10 million who do that; but 10% isn't a majority or anywhere near it.

Please don't feel the need to reply as it's clear your evidence is just as anecdotal as mine. But if anyone else out there has some hard numbers on this, I would be extremely curious to know. Hell, I'd be curious even for a poll on Joystiq regarding the subject.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:29PM (Unverified) said

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Yeah it was late but who cares it didn't stop me from enjoying TBGT.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:53PM TheMainProtagonist said

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Agreed. It's not like the game felt outdated or anything at all.

I downloaded the episodes off XBL and thoroughly enjoyed both of them. They might not have sold well, but that doesn't take away the fact that they were both excellent.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:30PM sonicspike41 said

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Seems like a double edged sword type situation.

Release it too early and people feel ripped off. Spend time making it and release it too late, and people stop caring.

If they can't start working on it before they release the game, there's always the chance they will have long development times and lose sales.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:32PM (Unverified) said

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I agree, releasing them a year later, and even more was a mistake. I was way to busy with other New games to go back and find this game and play again.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:34PM Crockett said

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There's DLC for GTA IV?!????!!!1!!?!?!! ;)
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:36PM willooi said

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Definitely late to the party, a delay in which the flaws of the game - contrary to those perfect scores - were fully realised.

I had great fun with GTA IV at the time of its release but now when I go back to it the cover system, movement, and driving just gets annoying. Shame. It just feels rushed now.

I hope Red Dead Redemption lives up to how good it looks
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:37PM (Unverified) said

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alienating half the customer base will also do that.
besides they were/are on top of the genre so its nice for them to get a sobering taste of reality and be taken down a notch.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:39PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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its their own faults.....at least they got SOME money off of MS but as for it paying off? from all their talk about it you would think it wasn't worth it....I mean its been a year and a half since GTA4 came out....why would you THINK DLC for a game that old would do shit? like seriously....

lesson learned....

now next go around release the add-ons on all platforms simultaneously, AND do it before the end of the first year of release.....that is sure to maximize the profits
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:44PM (Unverified) said

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Back then, DLC wasn't normally worked on until after release which is part of the reason why it took lost and damned so long to get here. Now though, because of Bethesda and other companies, most people factor DLC into the development process so it arrives quicker. That's why Mass Effect 2 will most likely recieve lots of DLC, at least compared to 1.

But when they do that, morons complain that they're witholding content to charge extra for. So they really can't win either way.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:50PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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well if they don't TALK about DLC before the game comes out then they wouldn't have to worry about that problem...thats where a lot of the flak comes from....

I mean SURE games that have multiplayer components are pretty much a given to have some sort of DLC, no need in bitching about that as you should already expect it.....then single player campaign games that get DLC isn't worth bitching about anyways if you liked the game, I mean I LOVE Assassins Creed 2 and will gratefully pay another $15 to get another 3-5 hours of story...the people that say its taking away vital parts of the story are bitching for no reason as its more of ADDING to the story.....if it were vital I'm fairly certain that it would be there from the jump.....
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:57PM Cheesus Crust said

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It DID sell 7.5Mil on 360, and is a pretty huge title, so I would say they weren't that late. However... Even though the dlc was awesome( I got the expansion disk), most of my friends(and me) bought the game for the PS3, and R* screwed us 6Mil over. I'm sure the sales would have doubled if they were released on PS3. Maybe some day the game AND the expansions will ship on one disk for PS3, thanks to bluray. One can hope right?
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:00PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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I got it on PS3 as well and have been meaning to gamefly the disc to play the expansions on 360....I'm glad they released it on a disc cause that at least gives those of us with the PS3 version and a 360 a chance to play it and save money in the process.....I mean after I beat the little bit the story has to offer in those I have no more need for the DLC, so renting it saves me money...
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Posted: Dec 18th 2009 2:21PM (Unverified) said

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I can hardly read any of these comments.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:43PM Maulok said

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Agreed that not striking while the iron was hot was a problem, but the content was almost a complete sequel. Two factors could have helped:
1) better multiplayer would have kept the core game owners attention during the long periods between DLC
2) not alienate almost half of the owners by going console exclusive
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 8:55PM (Unverified) said

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"the GTA 4 hype machine had worn off. "

That and making them DLCs Xbox exclusive...
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:08PM Jack Tretton said

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"[W]e'd have to agree that timing played an issue; the GTA 4 hype machine had worn off."

The hype for GTA IV vaporized a month after it came out. We all put in our 30-40 hours then went in search of the next big thing. Have a look at any gamer's unplayed pile and you know what I mean.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:09PM Pure Black World Tendency said

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Thanks for that link to the 2006 article, joystiq. A document of high historical value, no doubt, it lead me to these three conclusions:

1. In 2006, 99% of joystiq comments were anti-PS3.
2. All users who were active then have since been banned or died of natural causes.
3. The word LOLERSKATES was all the rage back in 2006.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:49PM (Unverified) said

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Well now 99% of the comments are from PS3 fanboys. Not much better at all.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 11:19PM Pure Black World Tendency said

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I'd say its about 50-50, and opinions are a bit more balanced. I guess more people have both consoles now.
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Posted: Dec 17th 2009 9:11PM RKN said

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I'll bet the PC matters very little to Rockstar (and most developers), but I will pay the $40 for both episodes to come to the PC version, thanks!
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