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Reader Comments (126)

Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:12PM Apollo26 said

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How about giving Wii some good games once in a while rather than titles ending in Z's.....................
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:14PM (Unverified) said

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Why? The "good" games don't sell either, that's why Ubi and just about everyone else is moving away from Wii development (for core games at least).
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:16PM (Unverified) said

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Did you see the Wii sales for the UK in 2009? The top five Wii games were all Nintendo games. What's the point of trying anymore?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:23PM Mr Khan said

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So because their efforts suck compared to Nintendo's, they should give up?

Where does this line of logic lead? That Nintendo shouldn't try as hard, that 3rd parties should receive special help because they can't sort anything out themselves?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:24PM (Unverified) said

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If Nintendo was actually open and welcoming to third parties, it might go a long way.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:27PM Mr Khan said

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But what does that mean? That they should give them free money to put their crap on the system?

The third parties have to at least try and meet Nintendo halfway. Nintendo is willing to back up games that are worth backing up (see: Monster Hunter Tri)
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:29PM (Unverified) said

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There's your problem. Microsoft (and more recently, Sony) reach out to the third parties. Hell, Sony has Naughty Dog teaching them how to use the hardware better! Nintendo just blames the other companies.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:30PM HighFiveJesus said

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its clear what wii owners want.

in america at least, the best selling games besides nintendo's are just dance, sports active, cabellas big game hunter, (utter shit, people like the gun it comes with though) hasbro family games (i think this is the third one now, and its still selling like crazy) and games based on tv shows like deal or no deal, idol, biggest loser ect. That is from 2009, anything else still selling is older crap too. Of course anything with mario does several million but we already know that.

Modern warefare reflex is the only saving grace.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:32PM aristokrat said

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Most of the XBOX and PS3 game advertisements I've seen on TV have been funded by MS and Sony. I've only just seen the first Nintendo-funded third-party ad the other day. All these companies jumping ship is either going to force Nintendo to start encouraging third-party development (maybe like Sony, whose willingness to help developers out technically seems to be a big factor in turning around the PS3's slow start) or force them to bring out the Wii 2/HD sooner and start over from scratch.

Sony was humbled at the start of this generation, and one can only hope that Nintendo stop laughing atop its pile of money before they've completely lost their way.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:32PM Mr Khan said

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It's not charity work, though, they're helping them with games that they think will actually sell a lot. Retro Studios is helping Ubisoft with Red Steel 2, for instance, so its not an attitude exclusive to Sony and Microsoft.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:35PM Vidikron said

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It really looks like the casual market is starting to collapse under the weight of it's own huge pile of shit. I'm sure the Wii will continue to produce good sales for a select few due to the sheer size of the install base, but Nintendo will apparently need a new hook next generation... especially with the other systems adopting motion controls. But, hey, Nintendo had a great run this generation and should be able to milk the user based until the next generation.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:36PM aristokrat said

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Oh, and Khan, do you think the shareholders care why the Wii has been a moneypit? They don't want to hear "Oh, well maybe if we try this and this" when they see AC2 reach 6 million units on the HD consoles. They've given the Wii 2 years now, and I think it's entirely understandable that they'd be tired of it. The people with the money are now more likely to believe that the market just isn't there than that all these companies just haven't been doing it right.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:41PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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The fact of the matter is that its becoming a trend recently with third parties saying that Wii development is hurting their bottom line and they're better off putting more effort on the PS3 & 360. Regardless of what you think about it the trend is there and its become reality. The myth that the Wii as a console is easy to profit on is officially dead. I've been saying for a long time in that the line of thinking is without any kind of basis in reality. We are seeing 3rd party developers and publishers coming out of the wood work to say they are going to focus on making games for consoles in which the consumers will actually purchase their titles. Again, the myth that its easier to profit on Wii is officially dead. Capcom, Marvelous, Sega and Ubisoft have all said the same things recently. I'm sure others have said or will say it as well as this is far from over. The snowball effect is among us.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:41PM aristokrat said

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Khan, that's why I referenced that I've just started seeing Nintendo-funded ads, indicating that maybe Nintendo has seen the writing on the wall as well. I think it's a little disingenuous to say that they're helping games that seem good, because those are most likely the ones that need the least help (tech-wise) and more elevating those 7/10-rated games.

Awareness is definitely the biggest hurdle though, and it would make sense to me if they never ran another Wii-only TV spot, because everyone knows it exists. Instead, every future Nintendo ad should feature an upcoming game, because that might bring people's attention back.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:47PM (Unverified) said

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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:48PM Mr Khan said

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It's not a myth, though. These games generally turn a profit, even if they don't light up the sales charts.

From my understanding, at least. Some real information would help
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:51PM Mr Khan said

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Ricitiello's being disingenuous. Nintendo launched the damn Motion Plus early for third parties.

"support," just means "give us money, or we walk." It shouldn't have to be that way.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:53PM (Unverified) said

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"It's not a myth, though. These games generally turn a profit"

I keep seeing you and many other Nintendo fanboys say that, but with nothing to show to back those words up. Even as companies continue to come out 1 by 1 saying Wii development is financially pointless and they're moving on, you guys stand firm and continue to say those proof-less words.

There's no grudge against Wii with these companies. If they really were making money, they wouldn't be abandoning the system 1 by 1.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:55PM (Unverified) said

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Why shouldn't it be?

Let's say I'm a CEO of a major gaming company. My company is making a new, very innovative shooter. You want my game on your platform, but sales trends show that this style of game doesn't sell well on your console, and I'd have to spend additional money on development because it has to be severely downgraded to work on your console, and the controls have to be completely retooled.

With all these risks, am I wrong for wanting at least a little help with marketing and such?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:05PM Mr Khan said

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First, the companies aren't abandoning Wii development, merely re-thinking their strategy, which should be necessary.

Second, where are the companies saying "this specific title did not make money." Generally when these things are reported, they come from people who don't have the big picture. The only one i can think of is Marvelous, who specifically pointed out that of their 4 2009 Wii games, only one made money. Companies complain, but where are the statistics?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:11PM (Unverified) said

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I don't know where the statistics are, and I don't need to because the people who make the games and run their companies are saying it.

That's how this works. You guys are the ones who need to provide the statistics, as you don't run the company or have any idea how good/bad a game's doing. Since these people are the ones saying their Wii games are failing, I'm more inclined to believe them as they are the more credible source regarding this matter.

Now if it was just some random fanboy running around saying every core game's failing on Wii, then he would have to provide some statistics to back that up and become a credible source.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:20PM Co said

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I guess by "high quality" they mean "amount of dollars spent on shaders and textures and normal mapping" because outside of eye candy, there's pretty much three games out for PS360, and they are just carbon copied over and over and over again and released over and over under different titles and marketing. Don't kid yourselves.

Also Ironic, the fact that PS360 fanboys are getting giddy on here about their perception of the casual market crumbling at Nintendos feet, when PS3 and 360 are both just now entering said market full steam ahead with their new input devices. Don't think for a second Natal's end user will be "peeping around corners" in Modern Warfare 3 with that thing.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:22PM (Unverified) said

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Cody, that was a stupid statement. Even coming from you.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:26PM Co said

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Stupid statement........ or dead on assessment.


Tomato, tomotto I guess.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:29PM Vidikron said

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No, it was pretty much just plain stupid.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:34PM Granger said

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"there's pretty much three games out for PS360, and they are just carbon copied over and over and over again and released over and over under different titles and marketing. Don't kid yourselves"

It's just the same Cody drivel, in a new Cody post. Doesn't quite live up to the sheer stupidity as lambasting HD by calling out 640p though.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:36PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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I agree that it's one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Thats a hurr durr comment if I've ever seen one from someone feeling a little on the butt hurt side of things today.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 2:38PM (Unverified) said

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I too have to echo just how stupid of a comment that was, but it's Cody. What did everyone expect?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 3:03PM Co said

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LOL poop: I think we ALL know that if anyone is butt hurt around this place it's you. Constantly. On a daily basis.


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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 3:09PM Co said

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I must admit though, what I do love about joystiq is the sheer bias from all the different articles respective comment sections, depending on the articles theme.

Anytime a tmac post is upvoted to 3 hearts, or a Bradwart post is still visibly readable, is a true testament to this fact.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 3:14PM Granger said

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What I love about Joystiq, is that at the end of the day, no matter what console you like or dislike, no matter how often you post, no matter how many great games you consider trash, whether you prefer JRPGs or WRPGs... We can all reflect and look back, and come together, and the one thing we can all agree on is that Cody is douche, and his opinion counts for squat.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 3:18PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said

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They want to make money? Well how about announcing Splinter Cell for the PS3 considering there are 33 million of them out there worldwide.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 4:54PM Wiizer said

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"we intend to continue to refocus our development resources on mini-games for the Xbox 360 and PS3"

Seriously, Ubi's just trying to save face with its shareholders. They'll be back on the wagon when the new peripherals roll out.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 11:29PM samfish said

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"There's your problem. Microsoft (and more recently, Sony) reach out to the third parties. Hell, Sony has Naughty Dog teaching them how to use the hardware better! Nintendo just blames the other companies."

Bull. Nintendo sent Retro over to Ubisoft to help them out with both Red Steel games.
They gave High Voltage early access to Wii Speak and sent people to their studio to help get the online working in The Conduit.
There is no shortage of third party developers saying that Nintendo is helpful when asked.

Contrary to what people seem to think, Nintendo IS helpful and offers technical support when needed. They might have room for improvement yet, but to say that they're just let third parties drown in the water is a complete falsehood.

It's like Mr Khan said... these guys need to meet Nintendo half way. They're not going to fly in tech support teams for studios who are pumping out games with a budget that is likely less than $5 million dollars.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:13PM (Unverified) said

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Well this is slightly better news I guess. I'm glad Ubi's realizing their future for third party software sales is high quality core games on the HD systems. Dunno why it took them so long to figure it out, as it's been like that since the 360 launched this gen in 05.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:17PM Mr Khan said

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Read my comment below. Ubisoft has been one of the more profitable 3rd parties this generation, and i think that can be attributed to their broader approach. 3rd parties that have been stuck on PS360 (like Take Two, for instance), haven't been financially stable in a while

The only one i can think of from last year (3rd party that neglected platforms other than PS360 and came out ahead) was Namco-Bandai.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:19PM (Unverified) said

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Khan, losses don't translate as profitable in my book. EA's been trying hard to work with the Wii as well. Notice their latest financial reports?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:21PM Mr Khan said

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EA is a different case. The good Wii games they make cannot offset the poor ones, or the ones that were good games, but ill-advised (like Boom Blox 2 or Dead Space Extraction).

They haven't figured it out.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:22PM (Unverified) said

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The Wii is not profitable for hardly anyone, as all of these companies have stated...whether it's shovelware or their quality games. I'm more inclined to believe the people who actually work in these companies and see these financial reports, than the pissed off nintendo fanboys who continue to claim otherwise with no solid proof.

I'm more than happy that most of these companies are now refocusing on 360/ps3. As I said below, you can never have enough good games on the HD systems.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:25PM Mr Khan said

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Who has said flat-out that these games lost them money? Sales is a different thing in relation to either revenue or profit. Even fucking Zack and Wiki made Capcom money at the end of the day.

The people who say these things are often ill-informed anyway. The words have to come from people at the top, who actually have the whole picture.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:26PM (Unverified) said

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Well, Sega has pretty well said they didn't make any money.

Or did you think they were abandoning Wii development for the hell of it?
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:28PM Mr Khan said

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But sega didn't say they were abandoning Wii development. Did not.

And it would be stupid as hell if they did. Wii is one of the few platforms where they've made any money at all this generation. Wii is the only reason Sonic Unleashed turned a profit.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:29PM (Unverified) said

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Hardcore Wii development, sorry.

The Conduit, HotD Overkill, Madworld, these all failed.

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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:34PM Mr Khan said

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Overkill made them money, i'm pretty sure of that. MadWorld probably did too, given recent comments from Platinum. The only one i'm iffy about is The Conduit.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:34PM Dr Perry Ulysses Cox said

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tmac and Bradwart,
Please name one AAA Ubisoft-developed Wii game with high production values, and an engaging story that was supported by an aggressive advertising and marketing campaign.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:35PM (Unverified) said

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"The people who say these things are often ill-informed anyway. The words have to come from people at the top"


"CEO Yves Guillemot pledged to steer the company away from the suffering casual market. Specifically, "with a view to further reducing our exposure to the DS, we intend to continue to refocus our development resources on our major franchises and on the Xbox 360 and PS3, the two consoles which are expected to see sales growth in games for gamers in 2010,"

You can't get much higher up than CEO.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:40PM Mr Khan said

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"suffering casual market" was Mr. Ransom-Wiley's words. Certainly sales were down, revenue too most likely, but what about profit?

Remember that Take Two, for instance, was in the red the year that GTAIV launched. Huge, huge revenue, but it doesn't help their company a bit.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:40PM Vidikron said

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"Please name one AAA Ubisoft-developed Wii game with high production values, and an engaging story that was supported by an aggressive advertising and marketing campaign."

The problem with this argument is that most of crap at the top of the Wii sales charts don't have any of that either. I mean, Carnival Games sold millions and I never saw it advertised once. The casuals just seem onto first party stuff and a few other random games regardless of their quality. It's a crap shoot for everyone but Nintendo.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2010 1:41PM Vidikron said

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*The casuals just seem *to latch onto*
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