Xbox's Greenberg questions demand for at-home 3D

by Ben Gilbert on Jan 13th 2010 2:27PM

Over the course of this year's CES, it was easy to get swept up in the fervor around 3D technology. Not Microsoft's Xbox team lead Aaron Greenberg though -- in speaking with G4TV, Greenberg said he thinks "there's a lot of challenges about 3D in the living room." To Greenberg, it's not a question of technology (or lack thereof) that's holding back 3D, it's the home environment. "I don't know about you, but when I play games or watch TV, I've got my phone, I've got all kinds of things going on. I get up, I get down, I'm looking outside at the weather and it's ... I'm not in a dark theater, wearing glasses, staring at a screen. I think it's just a different environment."

This isn't to say Microsoft isn't flexible when it comes to consumer demand -- quite the contrary! "As consumer interest for 3D grows, we'll grow with it," Greenberg admitted. "I think right now we're unsure what level of interest there is from consumers to really want a 3D experience in the living room."

Currently, only a handful of games ( Avatar, Invicible Tiger, and upcoming XBLA racer Scrap Metal, to name a few) support 3D on Microsoft's console. "If it becomes really important and people want to do more with it, we're absolutely happy to support it," Greenberg assured. Of course, with plenty of resources currently invested in the development and launch of Project Natal and its motion-based technology, Microsoft certainly has incentive to keep interest in 3D at arm's length.

Source

Tags: 3d, 3d-games, 3dtv, aaron-greenberg, avatar, business, ces, ces-2010, microsoft, project-natal, scrap-metal, xbla, Xbox-360

Reader Comments (131)

3d tv is shovelware since its inception. let it go devs just need to focus on quality titles instead of wasting valuable time on unnecessary and often cumbersome technology.

Your arguments sound nice and all, but become irrelevant when you take into consideration just how fuckin' well Blu-Rays are selling.

i love how somebody makes some claim in these comments but then posts no evidence to back it up (aka a link). somebody then calls them out on it and proceeds to do the exact same thing. hey guys hd dvd is coming back. (see i can do it too)......

Oh so you're associating bluray with 3d tv now. Ok i see your claiming that bluray's slowly increasing popularity can justify that 3d IS an awesome idea??? Can we really expect a holodeck in our living rooms very soon??? I dont think so. What im saying is that there are far more important things to discuss and improve on rather than focus on new shit that isnt practical at the time being.

Because 3-D movies will require double the space a 2-D movie uses. So... yes. A Blu-Ray does relate to 3-D movies/gaming.

Of course they're not pushing it. 3D is going to be a selling point for the PS3, not the 360.

So, since consumer interest in Blu-ray is growing, what's your plan for that, Greenberg?

I should mention he's probably right about the disadvantages of in home 3D. Especially the convenience factor.

Blu-Ray popularity isn't growing the way it should be. The people who truly cared about the format wars drew their lines in the sand and got burned out on the whole thing 3 years ago.

The rest of the people don't need it, don't want it, or just don't have the money. Streaming services will leap-frog Blu-ray in the long run.

3D TV is a joke. It will never take off anytime soon, especially when it requires glasses to view. It's just not practical.

"Blu-Ray popularity isn't growing the way it should be."

Link?

Really, Marty? Is that why Blu-ray's adoption rate is higher in it's life cycle than DVD was at the same point?

@Marty: The reason you don't hear about Blu-ray in the same way as before (IE: Blu-ray is the future!!1!) is because it has established itself as a regular format. As for 3D, I don't care and I probably never will.

isn't Blu ray format out-pacing DVD's previous adoption rate?

And considering the lack of real broadband adoption in the US, I don't think streaming will be widely accepted for some time to come.

@Brad: Well, I think if someone has a Blu-ray player with an HDTV They are more than likely to have some kind of decent broadband connection.

It varies.

I'm probably one of the few pumped for 3-D technology in the home. It won't be for everything I watch but with ESPN launching a 3-D channel as well as other big stations (History, A&E etc) it's only a matter of time before it becomes more mainstream and practical. I love watching movies in 3-D in the theatre and I'd love to play some games, blu-rays and the ocassional sporting event in 3-D as well. I don't mind the little glasses but its not something I'd want all the time. It just depends on the cost of 3-D tv's (3-d tech without glasses is already in existence and will not come to retail for a few years) and maybe it'll something where I buy a new monitor instead oa big screen TV but I can say for sure that (for me) 3-D is something important to me. Before I watched some of the bigger movies in 3-D (avatar for example) I wasn't sure but just like switching from SD to HD, DVD to BD and 2-D to 3-D it's something that enhances my viewing experience.

I'm probably in the minority and thats OK but I know it's something I'm interested in and will be procuring at some point in the next two years. Imagine combining true 3-D with head tracking technology for gaming ... thats the future right there. Immersion to another level.

[banned]

Digital movie streaming adoption rate is higher than that of blu-ray. It's only a matter time.

"BD Live"

Is part of Blu-ray itself, you moron.

Give it time. Remember all the idiots who said "DVD? Meh, I don't need fancy picture and stuff. I'll stick with VHS."

Yeah, that really worked out, didn't it?

[banned]

Since when is adding value bad? Therefore, by your definition, Microsoft's been scrambling to add 'value' to the 360 to stop people from realizing how much of a better value the PS3 is?

"Digital movie streaming adoption rate is higher than that of blu-ray. It's only a matter time."

Link?

(Im starting to wonder if they even exist)

@Scottish Prik

Link for proof please.
___

If Blu-Ray has a higher adoption rate than DVD in the same point in its lifespan how can anyone question its legitimacy as a viable long term platform? All the fanboys that ragged on the PSP GO doing a double back now when it comes to Blu-Ray because the 360 won't have it and can only stream? Me thinks yes.

For example, I have an HD cable subscription that has maybe 50 channels and over 400 SD channels. 95% of time is spent in the 50 HD channels because I can't watch anything in SD anymore. It's just flat out terrible and unpleasent on the eye. The only times I watch SD is like if an MMA event is on Versus or Spike because those aren't in HD in my area. Try watching a football or hoops game in SD then switch over to HD ... C'Mon Man. It's night and day.

Oh good, I thought I was the only one who found SD almost unbearable anymore.

Johhny,

I didn't know that ESPN was launching a 3D channel. That is awesome. I think that sports was what brought HD to its mainstream usage (no one can argue that HD makes watching a game that much better*), and it seems like it would get even better in 3D. Now I might just have to go and find myself a 3D-capable TV. But where will I find the extra money?

*My girlfriend refuses to watch hockey in anything other than HD at this point, because she can't find the puck otherwise. A major step forward in the popularity of hockey, I assume.

http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/01/29/netflix-blu-ray-adoption-slower-internet-movie-streaming-adoption

Wait...you got data from ONE source. And Netflix is renting. That hardly represents the market of people BUYING Blu-ray movies. Add in the premium Netflix throws onto Blu-ray movies...your source has NO credibility. At all.

@ Johnny, my wife looked at me like I was crazy when spent 3 grand on an HDTV. Now even she feels the same way and will not watch anything on SD if she doesn't have too.

The only people that knock Blu Ray, HD, 3D, and anything else that comes out is people who don't have it and have to say something negative about it just to justify.

He asked for a link he got one. Rentals? sales? Big difference, suure. Premium charge $1.00....ya, credibility is out the window : /. You're barely worth the time.

3D could become quite relevant in the future, but its nowhere near there now, and i think it's a foolish venture for the industry to go off chasing 3D gaming when they still have to get a proper handle on HD gaming (where are the 60 fps 1080p games?), to speak nothing of other technologies the industry has implemented, but not perfected, in the wild chase to find new shiny things.

@ScottishPrik

Actually you're wrong, there is a BIG difference between renting (Netflix/your source) and buying/owning.

Yeah you're right. Rental sales are much more significant than that of buying/owning. Providing a much better example for comparing blu-ray and movie streaming adoption rates.

@ ScottishPrik

It probably is (especially with Netflix's case). But, digital distribution doesn't have to lie in just streaming, it can be downloading to keep like with Steam. You should of compared a service like that (download/stream with concept of ownership) with the sales of Blu-Ray for a better example.

Comparing two formats with a direct time-cycle approach is ludicrous. Even at the most basic level, it's not a fair comparison, simply because there are more people in the world now than there were back when DVD was introduced.

The success of the format will be determined by whether or not it replaces DVD in the long term, and whether or not it can stand against other distribution models, like streaming / digital.

@ Marty

IMO, I feel that Digital will never replace Physical. I hope it doesn't :( If anything (with the physical and digital case) they should co-exist. People will always want something they can physically possess so I don't think it'll ever go away. I don't get why everyone says one will HAVE to succeed/replace the other, why can't we just have both?

You guys aren't very good salesmen for Blu-Ray ;) it reminds me of the part in Devil's Advocate when they're talking about Free will: "It's like butterfly wings: once touched, they never get off the ground."

I personally don't want to have SD unbearable to watch because that's still how most things are viewable... and I'm cheap... there, I said it.

I'm one of those guys that can't watch anything on SD anymore. Sometimes even my HD channels isn't good enough. For me, blu-ray is they to go, so far I got 109 blu-ray movies/tv shows. There's so many more blu-rays released that I'm looking into, not to mention some that hasn't been released yet like Indiana Jones 1-3 and Jurassic Park 1-3 to name a few.

I don't have anything against Digital Download, as long they keep doing the physical format, because I rather own a disc than have a Digital copy.

As for Greenberg's comment, I think if MS was planing on release a few titles in 3D, I'm sure he would said something completely different. He knows if Sony wants, they can release a few titles in 3D this year, not the same thing can be said for MS.

http://gizmodo.com/5445905/blu+rayitunesdvd-combo-movie-packs-prove-dvd-is-still-king

I'm as skeptical about 3D as the next guy, perhaps more.

But remember back when MS poo-pooed 1080p because they didn't have it and then reverse course once they did get it?

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3152866

This article seems to indicate MS doesn't have 3D capability (at least not yet) and thus they are trying to convince people they didn't want it anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to have 1080p on my consoles and it is a big deal, but if there's one thing the Wii has shown it's that in the end most people don't care all that much.

they have it tho....at least SOME form as there are a few 3D games on 360 now....

Also like to add that not including 1080p until later was a smart move. 1080p wasn't doing a lot for Sony when the PS3 launched and it wasn't selling nearly as well as the Wii or 360, but including it in the later 360 models as demand for it increased made a lot of sense. When the 360 launched HDTV adoption was fairly low and the number of those tv's that had 1080p was ridiculously low. They'll probably do the same thing with 3D and wait until it's popular before implementing it, but can you blame them? Why throw away money on tech that isn't going to make them money?

Microsoft's formula is:

Xbox's questions demand for .

Saying it was smart not to include 1080p is revisionist history. Thats like saying it was smart to sell the 360 without HDDVD as the internal standard for games. If that would have happened I'd bet that HD DVD would have won the format war and MS would be sitting on the creme de la creme home entertainment device. Not having a HDD in each console or including wi-fi in the box were also mistakes in my opinion.

The only reason Greenberg is saying this is because they don't have a high definition 3-D standard. Period. I'm sure MS said that motion controls were gimmicky before they announced Natal as well. It's what he does ... a PR goon who is supposed to pimp his product and rag doll all the others.

The only problem Sony had from the start was the price. We've seen once the price starting dropping the PS3 started selling to more people.

@ Caramel, supposedly every PS3 can do 3D right now out of the box (probably some sort of firmware update is required) how is that wasting money on tech?

This seems to be a case of either your machine can support it or not... It's looking like MS can't fully support it (because it does't begin with Natal) so they are going to downplay it.

That's the thing though, unlike the PS3, the 360 was always a game console first. If they had included HD-DVD from the start the console would have cost more and come out later for seemingly no real impact on game quality. The launch games for the 360 would suffer from the same loading times and possibly HDD installs that early PS3 games needed, and gamers didn't want that.

Though I do agree that the Arcade unit wasn't/isn't the greatest of ideas, since it holds game development back somewhat. Especially coming from the original xbox that had an HDD in every unit.

And 1080p is still kind of iffy in it's practicality. On the PS3 it's necessary for Blu-Ray movies, but all the high profile AAA games like Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 still only render at 720p. From a pure gaming perspective, the console supporting 1080p has almost no significance right now. Sure, some PSN and XBLA games like Portal and Flower support 1080p, but the numbers are still too few for it to be that big of a deal.

You can bash microsofts PR all you want for not being fully supportive of newer tech, but at least they're being honest about their priorities and capabilities. For sony to have talked and talked about how great 1080p gaming would be, and then 3 years later have no AAA games running in 1080p, well that's slimy PR speak at its worst, in my opinion.

1080p wasn't added to later 360 models, it was added through a firmware update. All models got support for it. At which point MS started advertising they had it and stopped saying you didn't want it.

what Greenburg basically said was "its a good idea, and we should have thought of it earlier. but since we didn't, were going to be skeptical until we have it."

well the xbla game legend of han tao also supports 3d and it was not very popular so i dont think people are really craving those 3d games i know i don't

1080P is not important! HD-DVD is where it's at! Streaming is the future, who needs disks! Motion controls are a fad! 3dD shpeedy!!!

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Xbox's Greenberg questions demand for at-home 3D

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