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Reader Comments (31)

Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:16PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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Bit suprised at the way Rockstar handled this, been pumping out some of the best games this gen, and yet, this is happening behind closed doors
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 8:27PM s ls said

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Rockstar hasn't done much this gen... GTAIV and 2 DLC expansions is the only notable game they released.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:16PM BrokenTriforce said

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You'd think that after making so many GTA games that the company would figure out that crime doesn't pay.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:23PM whylekat said

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Umm steal cars, drugs, money, helicopters, Subway trains, then kill cops and lose them by breaking line of site .... and it's totally forgotten. Eventually own a massion or penthouse apartment.. If life was like GTA, Crime definetly DOES pay! Except if you're in a biker gang..
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:41PM Kif said

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I don't think they anticipated a lawsuit would come in at such a low star level.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:46PM copa said

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Really? After making so many GTA games, I expected the execs to have sex with the artists, then run them over with a car, then take their money.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:54PM BrokenTriforce said

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@ copa

I doubt any of the suits have ever played a GTA game.... Which would mean that's their regular lifestyle. o_O
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Posted: Jan 16th 2010 5:03PM Unvrfd said

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Lol, one of the taglines for GTA3 was "Crime does pay" =D
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:16PM Captain Planet Planeteer Power said

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When you walked through the door it was clear to me, you're the one we abuse, who we treat like shit, 'cause you're a...ROCKSTAR
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:19PM Dextro said

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Go planet!
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:20PM Hooch said

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I question Planet's decision making skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQJrovKgrTw

Why Belfast? WHYYYY!?
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:21PM Hooch said

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Ahh Irish bashing is fun. It helps relieve the pain of being Scottish.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:24PM Hooch said

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I most definitely am not, sorry to dissapoint you.

I just feel derailing a page of comments bashing him is pointless (And yes I realise stating those opinions is ironic as it also wastes a page) and that to be honest, he's not a troll, just a very naughty boy,

And yes, I'm crazy.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:29PM Captain Planet Planeteer Power said

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@ Hooch

Because Irish chicks will do anything...





ANYTHING...





You know what I mean...

















In the butt.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:37PM MystileArmor said

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Did someone say anything about Irish girls and butt?
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:40PM Captain Planet Planeteer Power said

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Hey, my wife Rosie is Irish and while she may not be much to look at, that broad puts out.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:44PM eat it said

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captain planet...I wish that were true.
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Posted: Jan 16th 2010 1:30AM (Unverified) said

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Hooch: As an irishman, Lets take this one outside.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:18PM (Unverified) said

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I used to consider Rockstar as one of the classy studios...
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 7:22PM Kodros said

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RockStar...classy? You're talking about a studio where anytime they need a number for something, they use 69.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:18PM Hooch said

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Rockstar need to get a grip of theirselves :(
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:24PM vidguy said

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It's the smart move. They probably would have lost this case, but even if they had won their court expenses would probably have approached this figure. Done and done - hopefully they learn from it though.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:25PM (Unverified) said

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Wow. I would take my settlement and seek employment elsewhere. Maybe not a good idea all things considered ... and staying with Rockstar may be part of the agreement as well.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 6:31PM (Unverified) said

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Just because they settled doesn't mean they were guilty, though over one hundred employees all behind a lawsuit would suggest otherwise.

Will this be the subject of the Law Of The Game post this week?
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 8:24PM eudaimo said

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If the two cents of a Southern California employment lawyer is worth anything (I have worked on a number of similar class actions both in and outside the software industry, for what that's worth), here they are:

I haven't had time to peruse the Complaint in this case, but it was probably a "misclassification" case (the vast majority are). The idea is that employees are classified as salaried, but feel that they should have been hourly (and gotten overtime).

These cases are rarely about "guilt" or "innocence," particularly in California's highly complex and demanding overtime law structure. Usually, the employers and named employees just disagree on the law. (This is a class action so the fact that 100 employees get paid does not mean 100 employees filed a lawsuit. Usually, it would be brought by 1 or 2).

Settlement is not surprising:

1. These cases almost NEVER go to trial. I have never seen one go to trial in several years of practice in the region. It's not worth the money. It's not worth the risk. It just isn't done.

2. The settlement in this case might SOUND high (estimated 27k per employee, but it probably is not. Let's say 100-150 employees, making an average of $77k annually and working (on average) 100 hours of overtime a year. None of that is atypical in the computer industry. The potential exposure if those employees are "misclassified" would be very high. *Much* higher than 3 million. I'm not going to do the calculations, but let's be conservative and guess that the R* could see 8.5M in liability if it lost (not including legal fees, which could exceed 1M). Let's also say that counsel guessed that R* had a 2/3 chance of prevailing at trial (Very reasonable, but not a slam dunk).

A 3.5M settlement is sound business sense for both sides and reveals very little.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 9:10PM Benjamin Gilbert said

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First and foremost allow me to say that I absolutely appreciate you weighing in on this. While I think your points are valid (and things I considered while writing the piece), I don't necessarily agree with your conclusions.

I found the settlement more "revealing" in the sense that Rockstar has already gone through these kind of complications before. Furthermore, if the counsel were of sound belief that Rockstar hadn't misclassified workers, why not take it to trial? (Especially when there's plenty of money behind them and likely very little on the other side of the table.) It is a sound business decision for both sides, but that doesn't make the original necessity for the suit any less revealing. That's my two cents at least.
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Posted: Jan 15th 2010 11:07PM eudaimo said

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Hi Ben,
Thanks. And I appreciate your analysis as well.

I'm definitely not weighing in on any of the prior complications for R*, like R* Spouse. I will note that there is a difference between misclassifying a worker as salaried and having poor employment conditions for salaried workers (the latter is arguably worse, but is not generally illegal). But I do I recognize that the high demands of crunch time leads to an unhappy workforce, thereby leading to more lawsuits, meritorious or otherwise.

I will note also that the merit of these lawsuits tends to come down to more philosophical questions than moral ones, like: Do computer programmers use "discretion?" If so, they should be salaried and not hourly. This is a legal question that has come up time and again in case after case, but is rarely the result of a "nefarious" practice. It's just a legal disagreement.

But understand that when I say these cases almost never go to trial, I don't mean the way MOST cases "almost never" go to trial. This is a very particular beast: It's not 1 in 10 or even 1 in 100. I believe the total number to have gone to trial in California is in the single digits, but I could be wrong on that point).

As for "why not take it to trial," I'm not sure I understand your analysis. To say that R* has higher resources is to suggest that R* might credibly conclude that it should "outspend" the Plaintiff's. That is rarely a good idea. In the end, you spend a couple of million dollars to litigate aggressively, just to take a chance at winning in front of a Southern California jury (which brings its own concerns). The California Plaintiff's Bar is extremely sophisticated when it comes to W&H class actions. Most credible ones are run by very experienced plaintiff's firms who have experience in dozens of prior cases.

The settlement analysis in these cases are almost always purely mathematical. After the case is filed, most attorneys will read the Complaint and come up with a "likelihood of risk." They will then do some research: find out why the employees are classified the way they are and then interviewing some employees to find out if their duties justify the classification. Based on that investigation, the "likelihood of risk" will go up or go down. I'm oversimplifying a lot, of course, but after that it's basically Likelihood of Risk(X) Total Potential Exposure. The most common approach is to file a motion to have the case thrown out. If that fails, settle.

For that group of computer programmers, even a (relatively) low risk of loss could easily produce a settlement of that size without any real "Oh crap, we screwed up here" (which I do see from time to time).
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Posted: Jan 16th 2010 12:59AM BrokenTriforce said

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@ darkseid

tl;dr
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Posted: Jan 16th 2010 11:00AM Benjamin Gilbert said

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I should be more explicit! I meant by "Rockstar has had these complications in the past" that this case is revealing a history of Rockstar San Diego with misclassified worker claims. The existence of this case, regardless of how these cases usually run, is -- at very least in the court of public opinion -- a good indicator of the potential for this to be happening right now. There could very possibly be no correlation between this past case and the current allegations, but that doesn't make it *look* any better for Rockstar when this comes to light and they don't comment on it. Furthermore, there was a press release created after this case was settled that never got released. That strikes me as odd at very best (and kinda nefarious at worst).

The reason for me pointing out this case though was, more than the result, to point out that it's happened before. There's a precedent for misclassification claims at Rockstar (and Rockstar San Diego *specifically*) and that's telling. Word ... More
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Posted: Jan 16th 2010 3:32PM (Unverified) said

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Ben,

While I understand what you're saying, I do think you're missing the point that DR is making.

First of all the issue specific to R*SD at least at the time of the original reclass and law suit, was very much about the legal definition of how exempt is defined in California. The main points of legal definition (not real world definiton and not getting into how "the man" is trying to keep the little guy down) for an Artistic or Creative exemption the main 2 criteria include:

1. The position has the employee artistically involved in the work they do. Over simplifying this down to a black and white description, the law is asking is the person a automatron that is basically just doing exactly what they're told to do involving a set of skills but requiring little to no artistic/creative choice. So from a legal point of view the law is saying a non-exempt 'artist' (think about what that word even means) is someone that could be a person plucked off the street and then trained via x amount of instruction to then just churn out 3D objects, textures, and game elements without regard to any inherient artistitc talent.

2. There is also a minimal salary test for this as well, which I think is around $40-45K, which in the case of R*SD is pretty much a non an issue now or back in June of 2006 when the company proactively did it's reclassification (note: well ahead of any legal action). Almost all of the Artists (even the Jr ones) are making at least that as their base, and then there's OT pay on top of that. So was a non-issue then and now.

Keep in mind that at the time of the re-classification all those that were reclassed kept their current exempt salaries in full and then started getting OT on top of that. So for a studio that at the time was averaging 45 hours per week (even factoring in periods of 'crunch') this meant an almost 18% pay increase to the artist (and all the other types of roles in the studio that were also reclassed at that time - ie myself as a programmer). On top of that the management at the time (not sure if they're still there) set everyone up as "Salary non-exempt" which meant everyone got their base salary (their original at least market rate) even if they worked under 40 hours a week, but got OT for any hours over 8 in a day or 40 in a week. Personally I made out really well, since on days when needed to take off early I got paid in full, yet in the same week if I I'd potentially get OT pay while under 40 for the overall week. In my new role is actually kind of sucked to take an effective pay cut since my base rate has been reset to fall in line to market rate with the exepected OT already built in. BTW I left for personal reasons to be closer to family back in the bay area and not because I felt abused by the R*SD management of old.

Anyway, I personally hate seeing all this playing out in the press, when there are success stories for the employees and company to be shared as well. Of course the typical R* response to press stuff is just "talk to the hand", which is a shame. I wish those still there luck with RDR which I WILL buy in support of all those who I know are working very hard and putting themselves into the game. I still miss the feeling of creating something special in the games we made vs just another internal company app.


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Posted: Jan 20th 2010 12:32AM eudaimo said

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Scotty,
Thanks for your informative post. Like I said, I hadn''t read the Complaint, so your specifics were useful.

Ben, Thanks for your vigilance as well. I don't pretend to know what is going on at R*, but I just wanted to dispel any mistaken inference by readers that settling a class action (or any case, honestly) is a smoking gun. (FYI, I can't read the entirety of your last comment, Ben. There is a link for "More," but it does not work.
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