PixelJunk creator disappointed by cheap gamers

by Andrew Yoon on Jan 16th 2010 8:16AM

Q-Games' Dylan Cuthbert doesn't like you, cheap gamer. When quizzed by Develop, the PixelJunk creator described one thing that disappointed him most about the industry: gamers that refuse to open up their wallets. "Gamers complaining about our games being too expensive at 10 dollars. I'm not sure this is an industry problem, but it seems ridiculous that people complain about that price point." Cuthbert seems particularly sensitive about this issue, noting the rampant piracy of PixelJunk Monsters Deluxe on PSP earlier this year.

The naysayers seem few and far apart, though. PixelJunk Shooter went on to become the second best-selling game on PSN in December. Some members of the Joystiq community have even suggested the game is worth "more than $10." Obviously, the studio is doing well enough with its PSN endeavors, as Cuthbert confirms that "more PixelJunk is definitely in the pipeline." With PixelJunk Dungeons and presumably PixelJunk Shooter Encore in the works, the indie studio clearly has a lot to work on at the moment.

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Tags: dylan-cuthbert, pixeljunk, pixeljunk-shooter, q-games

Reader Comments (147)

It seems as if the newest starving artist is the independent videogame developer... scorning the people who he designs his games for... who just don't understand his art enough to shell out what he thinks is a worthy price.

We all work hard in our jobs, stop telling me how to spend the money that I earn.

Amen brother!

$10 is too high for point of access whim buying. They need to implement Whim Week (TM) where 'premium' $10 dollar games are on 'sale' for $3 with bundles at $5. With deals like that, who could pass them up. It's also been shown that these type of sales have long lasting beneficial results. Meaning it prints money.

Gamers hear of the sale, and check out and buy the game long after the sale has ended. The vendor gets the money from people that would buy it anyway at its normal pricepoint, yet attracts sales from people that are "cheap" as well as full price late commers.

They can repeat this ad nauseum resulting in an increase in revenue through the synergy of free advertisement through discount sales, word of mouth about quality titles, hype surrounding the event and the nil cost (amongst other things) of running the event.

So yeah, clearly for some, $10 is waay too high. Myself included. Call me a cheap bastich all you like, but at some point (pricepoint) I'm going to have to limit my spending so that I can afford larger and higher priced B and A tier titles. $3 for something clearly 'worth' $5-10? Sure, I'm in.

$10 for a game like Shooter isn't too much. But it is if there's no demo so I can at least try it first.

Personally, $10 is just about right for me when it is a QUALITY title like the ones that PixelJunk puts out (don't bitch at me Dylan; I paid for that golden shoehorn in your drawer!). That said, I never go higher than $10 because for that kind of money, I expect something I can hold in my hand.

Don't you wag your tongue at me Dylan! Who do you think put that golden shoehorn in your home anyway?! Anyway, $10 is reasonable for a quality downloadable title like PixelJunk puts out. That said, personally I don't like to go any higher than $10 for something unless I can hold it in my hand. Besides sex I mean...

PixelJunk Shooter is pretty short. Though it's my favourite PSN game ever.

no offence to anyone but the game was good but worth 10 bucks maybe. I have monsters and eden and I spent hours on them unlike shooter. I played shooter FOR 1 DAY and beat it. And then this guy says we're too cheap there is a recession going on ass. dude we're your customers it's not smart to say shit like that. Because I'm likely to not buy another pixeljunk game I don't buy games from assholes. And another thing I have always seen pixeljunk doing very well on PSN but I guess the hundreds of thousands of digital copies sold just wasn't good enough.

It definitely deserves it's price tag... but there's better games out there now, i'd rather buy a bunch of good retail games and spend my gaming time with them.... also, if you just want to not take gaming too seriously with a few DL games... the wii actually has a pretty solid lineup for wiiware... so it is good for something

Maybe if they came out with a demo I might think able buying it.

Why are they complaining?? They one of the top PSN downloads of 09.. Piracy is gonna happen on any system no matter the format. Didn't someone explain that to these guys when they got into the videogame industry??

It was a great buy for $10

Considering how often I hear people complain at my anime club when they get a FREE door prize, it's not that surprising that people would complain about a $10 price point. It *is* disappointing, though.

I'd also guess that roughly the same percentage of people complain about $10 games as about $60 games. It's just that, with $60 games, the complain doesn't sound as unjustified.

Maybe I am just simply not interested in the pixeljunk games. Tower defense isn't my thing, Eden bored me and was just plain dumb (IMO), and Shooter didn't really show anything that exciting in the trailers I saw. I have spent $15 on arcade/ psn games, but they have to appeal to me and have replay value as they hold no monetary value after you buy them. Plus there is very little coverage on PSN / Arcade games, and when the game gets released the consumer has little to no idea what the game is about. Therefore the lack of a demo REALLY hurts your chances of me buying your game, since I know little to nothing about it.

Consumers are willing to pay $60 for games because they KNOW what the game is about, and they think they will like it. Asking a consumer to blindly give you $15 for something they know little about is a much harder task. I see no screenshots or preview trailers on PSN to sway my wallet. If you want to see those things you have to go online to research it! Make it easier for consumers to find out what your game is about! So I think the responsibility is on the devs and publishers to get their games out there and PROVE THEIR WORTH! Not just complain and call gamers cheap! I too am wary to buy at the $15 price point, It's not the gamers fault. The consumers you call cheap are the very same ones shelling out 4 times the cost of your game to go pick up a different title. So i don't think it is a matter of gamers being cheap and rather we do not like A: No resale value on downloadable games (this makes it a gamble because if we buy it and we don't like it, we're stuck with the game and out $15) and B: The consumer is generally left in the dark about the content they are about to buy. Save for a little description, and a possible screen cap.

So don't blame gamers! Rather go take some business classes and learn how to market your downloadable titles to a wary consumer base.

P.S. I don't think berating your fanbase is going to move more copies of your game Dylan.

The game's been amply promoted on sites such as Gamespot, IGN and the blogs. There's videos and reviews and lots of hype. There's no reason for it to need to be on PSN. I can certainly understand if individual gamers have tastes elsewhere, though.

That is exactly my point, it is promoted but you have to seek it out. If they put up a trailer or a demo or some screenshots on the PSN it would be much easier to sell. Yes, I have heard the hype about this game, but pixeljunk has fanboys. I want an unbiased first hand opinion. BTW this is the only gaming site I frequent, I don't go to IGN, or gamespot, or whatever else you kiddies are going to these days. This is my one stop shop.

If PixelJunk wants to start selling more games they should do 2 things:

Release a demo of their games the same week of release or a week before.

And the most important thing they could possibly do is start selling codes/cards at GameStop, Target, Wal-Mart and so on. People are more willing in my experience to impulse buy something like that than actively seek it out. PixelJunk Shooter is a high quality title for sure, and I'm sure if they started stocking some 3x6 or 8 inch pamphlet style cards with screenshots, descriptions and reviews just like a traditional game sans the box and disc, their sales would probably double or triple.

Also, it simply does not help at all that the Playstation Network does not have screenshots or even a decent description for, well, anything.

If there wasn't gamesharing on PSN, I would have probably paid $10.

Gee. That's an easy response actually. We as gamers, (those of us that are wise gamers) are going to spend on a game what we think its worth. If a game looks like someone could have developed it on their PC in 3-days time. We're going to pay a lot of money for it, in a world where the dollar is seeming worth much more when our hours at our jobs are being cut back because "the economy is bad." The game development I've described is much like the inde developer making something for Xbox LIVE. You get the idea. $10 mind you, is 1/6 the price of a full blown $70 million dollar game vs an arcade style game that can't cost nearly that much.

We're not cheap. WE'RE NOT CHEAP! I'll say it one more time. WEEEEE ARRRRE NOOOOOOT CHEEEEEEAAAAAP! We're selective. We carefully look at what there is, especially when a demo is available which are few and far between on PSN for games, and then we tell ourselves. For the amount of work we see has been put into this game, is it really worth it too me for 1/6 the cost of a PlayStation 3 game? Then we decide. Think about and it'll make sense.

PixelJunk Shooter was a boring game. Boring boring boring boring. I wanted to take a nap, that's how boring it was.

#u@k U Dylan Cuthbert!!! U dont pay my bills bitch!!! And ur games look like sh!t too!!!!!!!

I was thinking about this recently, with a spare $70 to spend, what would give me the maximum enjoyment? what would I not get bored with in two months and return to? $10 seemed very attractive (6-7 games? that could work). So I listed games that I was interested in.

As I thought about each game though, I could get near alternatives for free online. The ones I can't I just wouldn't get much of an emotional reaction out of. 10 OK games for $100 isn't nearly as satisfying as 1 or 2 great games you'll remember forever.

It's not the price point. It's the emotion we get when we're thinking about your game. No problem buying Flower and Flow, but will never buy Linger in Shadows, even for $1.50.

Hey, isn't Dylan Cuthbert that guy who worked on the very first Star Fox ga-- oh my god it is mr. cuthbert i love you so much i bought all your pixeljunk games except racers wow that one was bad sorry man luv u tho

All I know is that Bionic Command: rearmed, Trine, and Battlefield 1943 were good online purchases (maybe less so for 1943 but I still haven't played it that much and so haven't gotten tired of the maps at all).

Elefunk was good too.

Gravity Crash looks promising, but alot of the other stuff I picked up just didn't pique my interest after 15-20 minutes. That's probably why people are complaining about the price tags.

If your interested in Gravity Crash check out Gravitron 2 on steam. It's a lot better in my opinion, and it came first. It's half the price and has a killer soundtrack

@CaramelZappa - "This is because more and more developers are giving us better, bigger games at lower prices. That's what competition is. That isn't an "underlying issue", that's how every industry works. "

I disagree with this - one problem is that the publishers, after making their money back perfectly well at full price for their AAA games, then dump them into the low-price range market, flooding it. They don't need to do it as they have made their money back easily already (for the majority of them), but they do it because they can to maximise short-term profits. The thing is, by doing that they are also throttling their future prospects because a huge no. of people have learnt to simply wait for that price drop now. This has the affect of lowering the perceived value of games, bit by bit. This is why I say it is an industry mistake/problem, not a consumer one, the industry has done it to itself.

Now interestingly, Nintendo never do this price dropping thing, and look at how well they are doing.

I do wonder if the constant Steam Sales and 2nd hand market are gonna come back and bite the industry in the butt.

a few years ago, if a game like Armoured Princess was 75% off at $9.99 I'd have jumped on it.... but after the new year steam sales, even games at $5.99 are looking pricey, and I'm tempted to just wait a few months until it's $5.99, or $3.99, or $0.99, or pay what you want.

That's not to say it isn't worth $9.99, or even $30... I'm sure it is. But everything is in competition for that money.... and a new indie game at $9.99 has to compete with 6 month old retail games at $9.99 and even older games like stalker at $2.99.

You have an interesting point, but I still think that the price drops are relevant and like I said, it happens in every industry. I don't think it should be any different in video games. Price drops are good for the consumer and as many have already said the lack of price drops in the digital space (at least on consoles) is keeping many people from buying older digital-only games.

You're right, there are people that wait for price drops. But there are also plenty of people that buy games at full price on day one, both in full retail games and digital games. There are plenty of full retail $60 games that sell in the millions in the first week, so saying the perceived value of games is going down doesn't make sense to me. I really think it all has to do with competition. It's a huge market with a lot of games and gamers only have so much time to play.

And I think the reason Nintendo has been able to keep the prices of their first party titles is because of lack of competition. They have no real rivals. The PS3 and 360 titles exist in almost a completely different "hardcore" market, and there is no developer that makes games on par with Nintendo standards of quality on the wii. Wii only owners don't really have a lot of choice when it comes to AAA games, so Nintendo gets to keep their prices high. I think this is bad and it slows down the market. Meanwhile, both Sony and Microsoft are lowering the prices of their best titles down to $20-30 in order to compete with each other, and that means two things. Gamers get to play games they couldn't afford, and new games have to deliver something that's worth the $40 price increase over the old "platinum hits". Both of these things help move the industry forward.

I understand as an "indie" developer you wish more gamers could throw money your way, but it's a big industry with a lot of competition. What you see as bad for your pocketbook I believe is really good for innovation and progress for the industry as a whole.

I realize you don't comment here often but for future reference, to reply to a comment that has no "reply" button, click the reply button on the first post of the thread, in this case your post.

For what its worth Dylan I've bought all your PJ games except Racers. They're all so damn hard though!

I'll spend $10+ on a game I know I'll enjoy.

But if it's $5 I'll buy it just on the off-chance I might like it.

The "It's only $10!!" argument doesn't really hold up. Cos that $10 can be used for something that's $50, or for something that is needed. And frankly there are SO MANY GAMES OUT THERE that I want to play, that I don't have time for all of them.

$10 really isn't $10 though. I have to buy a $20(+tax) card just to get a $10 game and MAYBE some cheap DLC. I hate Sony's double taxation.

That's not sony. That's whatever retailer you are buying it from and is stealing your money. Best buy, toys r us, target, and amazon all don't charge tax on psn cards, and I've never seen one that does. I guarantee they are not paying in the tax they are charging you.

You can slo buy $10 worth of credit on PSN using a credit card. As Mietha CAG said there is no tax on buying PSN cards.

I got more out of $40 for a used copy of Batman: Arkham Asylum than I would have from three $15 games on PSN. But even if I'd gotten it new and paid $60, It'd have been more worth it than four downloadable games at $15.

What these developers and publishers don't realize is that, yes, $15 is only a fourth the price of most retail games, but when it has only about 10% as much content, it's really not a better deal.

Never blame your main source of income. Sounds like PixelJunk is getting cocky. People will pay for good games, and their own sales numbers show that. It's the typical cycle of somebody that became popular and turned cocky. Next thing we know, PixelJunk games prices increase, and sales number go down, and they do the same whining again.

Well, maybe if they had EVER made a game worth playing, they would sell more. Pixeljunk=shit IMO

For me, I don't think $10 is too much for a game. However, the reason I don't buy any are because I can't sell it when I am done. I would rather go to a game store and pay $20 for a used game, then when I am done sell it back. I can't believe people who buy DLC over and over that just sits there when they are done.

Cry me a river.

Seriously, $10 is a weird price. I had no problem paying $3-$4 for Flower, that genuinely felt like "candy money". $10--while clearly much cheaper than $60--does not feel like candy money. However, with a $60 game, there are some pretty well established expectations: 12-20 hours (at least) of high quality gameplay + multiplayer, or if it's more RPG-ish, 40+ hours of stuffs.

Nobody knows what to expect from a $10 game. I've bought $10 games that were less fun than Flower. And as some (who I tangled with earlier) may recall, I'm not exactly a huge advocate for Flower....but I just said it: it's better than many other $9.99 games on PSN.

IMO, the happiest PSN purchase I have made has been Wipeout HD, which cost twice as much as things priced at $9.99, but also delivered me a more reliable dosage of gaming awesomeness.

Another problem with $10 is it often means low-budget shooters. We can usually buy better, old-school shooters for less. Just pop in the Wii virtual arcade (or PS3/360 equivalent...or MAME). If you want to charge me $10, make something fresh. I realize a lot of people liked Pixeljunk's shooter, but seriously, I already own Ikaruga... the most perfect shooter evar... So where's the draw?

Uh, Ikaruga and PJ shooter are COMPLETELY different types of games. Just because they both have things you shoot does not put them anywhere near the same category.

i'd buy them. if i had a ps3.

maybe they should try a PC release? I hear pc gamers inhale stuff like pixeljunk.

If it could run on my netbook? Hell yea.

second

Gamers aren't cheap. Some just don't feel justified in paying $10 - $15 dollars for what often amounts to glorified browser games and tech demos.

"If you're in the entertainment business and you make money your a sell out... sell out" (echoing)

This is what I don't understand about developers. They always seem surprised at 1) piracy and 2) people don't like to part with their money. Yea, $10 may seem like a no-brainer to the guy that made the game, but when I'm sitting on my couch looking at the PS Store, I'm a little more thrifty. Mainly because once I spend my money, that's it. There's no trade-ins or anything.

And we've been complaining about prices on XBLA games for quite a while now. Seems interesting that it's just now creeping onto the PSN.

Before PSN, I would rent (or demo) a game before spending $60 for it. The same thing applies for downloadable PSN titles now.

Just because it's $10 doesn't make it any less annoying (or make you feel less "taken") when you discover the game sucks within the first 5 minutes.

I wouldn't pay $10 for PJ Monsters, but only because I don't like Tower Defense games... not because I think $10 is too much.

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PixelJunk creator disappointed by cheap gamers

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