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Reader Comments (26)

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:27PM (Unverified) said

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There are some real gems in the Indie section, but they get little to no press. And Microsoft doesn't really advertise they HAVE an Indie section.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:52PM (Unverified) said

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I have an idea Bradwart. Maybe if you change your name and profile picture no one will realize that you are you. You can start a new life. Clean slate. Think about it.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:55PM Granger said

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Are we really back to this?

True, inoffensive, and relevant, yet still downvoted. You're all a bunch of hypocrites.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:38PM wcarnation said

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Quick, say some shitty meme that's ages old to get them up votes!
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Posted: Jan 19th 2010 12:39AM Stevetrop Man of Mystery said

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All your base are belong to us?
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Posted: Jan 19th 2010 1:03AM Cap Morgan said

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I'll give you that they don't get the press, but they're hardly inaccessible.

In my perfect world they'd launch a channel to highlight the more memorable games. I don't know if it's a failure of just MS or if IGN should step in but the lack of coverage goes well beyond just XBL. Hell why doesn't Joystiq at least check them out (demo at the least)

The biggest highlight I've seen was for I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1N IT!!!1, leaving the average user to think this was the first (and only) game worthwhile on the indie game scene.

Maybe it's a chicken and the egg scenario but while MS isn't doing enough, neither are any of the major websites.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2010 3:19AM DomoBraden said

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As a person knee-deep into development on a XBLA Indie game, I truly would like to see a bit more exposure given to the various titles. Roughly 9/10 of the people I know that own 360s never even knew that such a thing existed. It's not as though they are hidden, but they have virtually no representation in terms of being highlighted. On Joystiq, IGN, and Kotaku, I can think of no more than five titles that have ever gotten any coverage, and even then it is typically only in passing mention at best. To be fair, it's not solely the fault of any one party, and as of late the service has been getting a bit more attention from media outlets, (as has Microsoft lack of capitalizing upon it).

It would be nice if some of the more popular sites had some sort of dedicated section or feature to cover them -- one willing to overview them both for what they are, and what they are not. Some are merely stepping-stones for novice developers giving his/her first shot, some are by hobbyists of varying degrees of talent with no interest outside of having their project seen, and others still are young upstarts just trying to get their foot in the water in what is quickly becoming a very crowded sea. Each one of these projects has had a considerable amount of time put into them, and each are deserving of recognition in their own right, with consideration taken into where they came from and what they're intended to be.

I'm not trying to claim that every game on the service is a winner, far from it, but the selection thus far is slim enough that it shouldn't be an unthinkable undertaking to give some level of coverage for the majority of them. Even a weekly spotlight would suffice. This is not the App Store, where there is such an incredible amount of rubbish to sift through that to even acknowledge each project by name alone would be some sort of superhuman accomplishment.

It is there that the real problem presents itself. For all the innovation of the App Store, its popularity has hurt it just as much as it has helped it, (at least in terms of the individual apps). The more popular it gets, the more overcrowded it becomes, and it's becoming increasingly more and more unlikely for an obscure AAA title to gain the attention it needs to rise to the top of the barrel. It's a double-edged sword really.

Maybe Microsoft's lack of promotion is actually giving the Indie games more exposure in the long run than if it were to suddenly become front-page news. Still, wishful thinking prevents me from hoping for anything less than a solid middle-ground between the two services. If such a thing is possible, I can only cross my fingers and wait for the day that such a feat might be attainable.
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Posted: Jan 19th 2010 1:16PM ytilanigiroon said

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The whole point of the XNA (in my opinion) is to get back to grass roots. Make your game, promote it yourself. Titles like "I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1N IT!!!1" and Pixel, et al are recognized because they're good. Spit and polish on top of code won't get it done though... Just like breaking into the music industry, you have to know somebody. Or, at least know somebody who knows somebody.

There are (not literally) millions of Rocket Fart's on XBL, and a very few gems. It's not Microsoft's fault for not pumping up the community, it should be doing it all on its own.
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:29PM NutMan said

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The Indie Games service has a lot of awesome games on it now and I urge everyone to go check them out. All the Arkedo stuff, especially Jump is awesome. I just like looking at the graphics for jump.

Other good titles are Miner Dig Deep and You Will Die.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 2:41PM armageddon said

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In The Pit, Armor Valley, Weapon of Choice, Kodu are really good too, and Super Cow is good for little kids.
I personally download a few demos from the indie games channel once every week or so looking for a new gem (and they are there).
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Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:30PM (Unverified) said

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With a little marketing and promotion, the good games will always rise to the top.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:42PM pibs said

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I just bought Head Shot 2 yesterday, pretty fun indie game for 80msp. If only MS would allow them to add achievements, all of their games would sell like hotcakes. Cheevos are like crack for GS whores.

I am going to checkout Pixel now and see if I like it.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:46PM falcomadol said

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I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1N IT!!!1 was made by the same guy who made Dishwasher: Dead Samurai. Explains why they're both awesome, and feature the undead.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 10:50PM (Unverified) said

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I know ONE thing that the indie section could really use: Better cover art.

Some of those games may be real "gems" but for the love of God that box art is terrible.

(is it called box art if there is no box?)

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:17PM Red Son Rising said

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Z0MB1ES is a gem, Dishwasher is not. i bought Z0MB1ES after 5 min with the demo, you couldnt pay me to play Dishwasher with someone else's 360.

im glad microsoft has an indie games program but the whole thing needs some more direction and a heavy dose of quality

it hurts the service that every game is so hit or miss: when i finally stumble across something good im jaded from all the crap i had to wade thru

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:18PM Premature ejaculation man said

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They could also make it available in more countries...That could help it too...

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:18PM Double J said

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Arkedo made a couple of the DS's most overlooked gems in Big Bang Mini and Nervous Brickdown. I love those games. That's all I have to contribute.

Posted: Jan 18th 2010 11:29PM (Unverified) said

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I bought Pixel. I love it! I want the T-shirt!

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 12:43AM Stevetrop Man of Mystery said

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I like the indie section because it brings back my childhood memories to games. A time when I just picked up a controller and gamed. No on going story or purpose but just to game itself. With all genres of games that touch all the types of games I used to play its a nice trip down memory lane.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 12:53AM Cap Morgan said

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As a programmer I've done my share of dabbling with XNA. It's a great environment. The problem is people rush to push their games out without polish. Few have the financial backing to really make it as good as a XBLA game but some of the games could have really made some money with a little more time.

Avatar drop comes to mind. Had he put in some networking code to make it so a bunch of us could just drop in and pummel our avatars, I'd have spent a buck, as well as all my friends. A great idea but needs just that last bit of umph to make the sale.

And for the record, no I don't have any games out on the market. I have some ideas I think are good but time and money are somethings I don't have.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 4:39AM Giroro said

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PIXEL crouching is the cutest sprite ever made.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 8:45AM Tuxy79 said

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MS truly treats these services as 'pet projects'. One minute it's in the lime-light the next it's left burried under it's own OS.

Indie games would be perfect to nurture inspiring talent to graduate to XBL and then full-blown MS owned IPs. Lord knows MS needs exclusives, and developers to create compelling content for the platform.

But alas, we have to sit through a year of Natal hyperboyle, and virtual arcades.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 12:08PM BootlegZani said

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I also have only bought Pixel. It looked too good to pass up.

Posted: Jan 19th 2010 1:18PM (Unverified) said

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It's not Microsoft's job to promote indie games. It's the indie's publisher's job to do so. Capcom, EA, Konami, Bethesda Softworks, and Ubisoft aren't promoted by Microsoft, they are promoted by their own expansive marketing efforts. XBL is simply a venue. Its the virtual equivalent to renting a storefront in the mall. Whatever fees an indie dev pays Micorosoft, is simply for the convenience of being on XBL.

Too many very smart Indie devs believe that game promo is a "if you build it, they will come" thing. But it more like "If you build it, promote the heck out of it, they will come." This is why every lead in a indie dev team needs learn marketing. If they can't they need put aside some money to hire a marketeer.

People work hard for their money and only buy from people they know. People "get to know you or your company" through your marketing efforts. So if you don't effectively market yourself, you are invisible to the consumer. And it doesn't matter how mind-blowing your game is. Your game could be the next GTA, but If consumers aren't familar with your brand they won't buy. This why even the biggest companies marketing budgets are either half, the same, or beat their dev costs. Marketing is the strongest part of getting a game sold.

I know many indies complain that they don't have millions of dollars to devote to marketing like the big guys. But here's the thing, social marketing has turned that myth on its head. Indie devs should have a twitter, facebook, blog, and a static website devoted to their latest game. They need enter in game dev competitions. And make contacts with game journalists as well people from Microsoft XBL marketing or other big devs companies. Nowadays, getting a contact is as easy as finding a journalist or project's lead blog/twitter/facebook and complimenting them on how smart/witty/edgy they are. Or getting a booth at major game conventions and game dev conferences. Make your booth interesting and eye-catching, turn the charm on to every person who passes your booth, and hand out cool swag. It might suck for someone who isn't very social. But if you want your game company to succeed, it's a must.

If you have successfully market your game and it starts selling like crazy on XBL. No doubt Mircosoft will notice you and contact you, then they will began to get you a better position on XBL.

Posted: Jan 20th 2010 12:48PM Yoshi1080 said

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"Of course, the problem with the App Store success analogy is evident: For every Rocket Fart there is at least one I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES!!!1N IT!!!1."

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or did you want to say that Rocket Fart is superior to I made ... ?

Posted: Jan 21st 2010 7:41PM RadiantViper said

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I've only bought Miner Dig Deep, simple but fun and I've probably played it for a few hours at least (it's only 80 points). I wish they had achievements but there are some fun games on there.

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