Australian Christian Lobby argues against R18+ rating

by David Hinkle on Feb 10th 2010 5:00AM

We've been following this story for quite some time now. Australia is currently debating a new R18+ rating, which would allow more mature games to be released in the country uncensored. The established maximum rating of MA 15+ has been a pain for both the gamers and those producing the games. Now there's a paper that citizens can weigh in on and retailer EB Games is the latest to support the new, more mature classification. Caught up? Good.

In addition to the roadblock of the Australian Attorney General, it would seem the R18+ rating now has another hurdle to overcome: The Australian Christian Lobby and its head, Jim Wallace. In an interview with GameSpot, Wallace equates violent video games to his time spent in the SAS, comparing soldiers' use of simulation exercises and routines as a way to break their "natural reluctance" to kill an enemy. By making these games more lifelike, he thinks the average citizen will be less hesitant to perform these violent acts outside the confines of their television screens and computer monitors, something he says isn't "in the individual's interest, and it's not in the community's interest."

Wallace also had some choice words for the ongoing public feedback phase of the proposed R18+ rating. He says "the only people who are going to be into this are the games people" -- y'know, the people affected by all of this.

[Via Game Politics]

Source

Tags: australian-classification-board, censorship, oflc, r18

Reader Comments (94)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmNb3xJFzkc

crap...

Is that Austin Powers?

http://www.screenhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/austin-powers-shagadelic.jpg

It's really shocking to see a place like Australia that you'd think is so progressive and smart turn out to be quite protectionist and restrictive. All the arguments these people have been making have been steeped in "we know what's best for you" rhetoric. That attitude is appalling in a free society.

Progressive governments usually take more control of the lives of their people. Hence the reason, more restrictions.

Well, in America, it's mostly conservatives are pushing for anti-video game laws and other religion-inspired laws.

Hillary Clinton says hi!

Yeah, because in America, Christian groups never oppose or complain about anything do they?

"Wallace equates violent video games to his time spent in the SAS, comparing soldiers' use of simulation exercises and routines as a way to break their "natural reluctance" to kill an enemy."
So is he saying that the entire population are incredibly gullible and manipulatable and do whatever hey are told whenever they are told? Or is he saying everyone else is so far beneath him in intelligence that only he can see the difference between reality and SAS training?
Sounds like the beginnings of a dictatorship regime to me.

I'm going into risky territory here, but if everyone remembers correctly, Australia used to be an island full of psychopathic convict murderers from England. Surely a few more won't hurt.

Do you put "natural reluctance" in quotes because you don't believe in it, or because yours is so far gone you wouldn't know?
*eyes joystiq suspiciously*

One of the stereotypes that these people have is that video games are for kids, thus, violent video games should be restricted from them.

Except the vast majority of video game sales are to people in their 20s and 30s, at least in America. But I suspect these people who rail against them don't have any interest in trying to find the truth, they're probably far more concerned with using fear as political power.

A more peaceful place? Really?

I'm back boys after reading this level of stupid I had to respond.

"You can't argue with the fact that the world as a whole, due to various forms of media, has been desensitized to alot of violence nowadays. For example, look at society decades ago, and you never used to see the kinds of things we see on TV now. People acted differently and morals were much more enforced. I'm not saying things were perfect or anything, but generally it was a much more 'peaceful' place, at least in the media."

http://www.google.com/search?q=the+red+summer+1919&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

http://www.google.com/search?q=black+wall+street+a+black+holocaust+in+america&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Where were the videogames then?

FYI

most if not all of these participants in this orgy of violence were CHRISTIANS. Kids, families....all participating in this orgy of killing and torture like it was a family picnic.

Keep your can of stupid away please. Know your HISTORY before spouting off.

MORANS you IS

IMO, Christians or any of the big three monotheistic beLIEfs have NO BUSINESS talking about morals with their history of violence, rape, plunder, destruction, torture....etc.

I don't give me this BS that Stalin or Mao were atheists, they wanted to be worshipped as GODS themseves. So the people worshipped them as Gods just like right now with the Dear Leader in N. Korea.

If a group of people committed heinous crimes under the name of Christianity, that has nothing to do with me or the current state of the religion. In my study of the bible, I am not getting the vibe that I should rape and pillage.

Christian kids and families engaging in an orgy of torture. Really? Maybe try knowing your current history before spouting off?

Debating religion with 12 year old "atheists" on a gaming forum is fruitless, but sometimes the hate speech gets to me.

Yes families participated in the orgy of 1919. I can list many specifics if I must but I assume YOU are capable of researching for yourself. Don't take my word for it, FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF!!!!

Hate speech?

I posted facts nothing more nothing less.

Just the facts ma'am

If you want to practice hate speech then the Bible is the best place to look.

Hell if you want to see it at work, then a church is the best place to go. After all, the Bible is literally a handbook for small mindedness and oppression.

LEARN the American history your (mostly from Texas) history books DON'T tell you.

http://mtwsfh.blogspot.com/

Before you go off thinking that I am UNAmerican or whatever, know that I am an American and I want this nation to be the nation it CAN be, we have a long way to go but in principle this can and Gods willing WILL be a great nation.

Pretending that this nation did NOT do these things is not going to make it go away. We must own up to the past or we will never be able to create the OPEN, KIND, TOLERANT future that most of us want and crave for ALL of humanity.

Come together....right now, over me.

Imagine no religion, no hell below us, up above only sky....

So your logic instructs you to condemn an entire religion because of the actions of a few? Give tolerance a try and maybe open your eyes to reality a bit. Christians have just as much right to discuss morals as anyone else. Considering morality in US society was derived from Christianity, which if followed correctly does not allow for genocide or violence to be committed under it's guidelines, I'd say your average Christian would know a thing or two about morality in today's context.

For what it's worth, the notion that exposure to violent media leads to violent behavior is dubious at best and has never been proven. I'd also balk at the notion that things used to be more peaceful (and politicians were honest and kids respected their elders, right?).

However, the stance that children should not be exposed to violent media is pretty much universal among sane people. The question is, how do we achieve it? By force or through influence and education? Australia's current method is like using a sledgehammer to crack an egg.

jquad,

I am not condemning an entire religion because of a few things. Yes I have a big problem with organized religion past, present, or future. I have this problem because I have seen and continue to see the harm that it does.

Now spirituality I have NO problem with. You can believe or not believe in whatever God or Gods you want, but do you have to worship old men in robes to do it? Why do they know more about your God than you? Why should they? Jesus (if he ever existed) was a PROGRESSIVE fighting against the established organized religion of his time. Yet now Jesus is used to defend ignorance, hate, bigotry...etc etc. Kinda ironic yes?

Here is a question I have for you (please do not take it as an insult or an attack)

Why do you base and spend so much of your time reading and following a book of stories written by ignorant goat herders who herded their goats in the desert?

Goats eat grass so if they were not smart enough to NOT herd these goats in the desert why are they smart enough to know what lies out there in the Universe? Why is it they have the answer to the MOST asked 2 part question off human existance? (why are we here, how did we get here?)

If they were not smart enough to know that the Earth is round, is part of a solar system, is part of a galaxy, is part of a group of galaxies, is part of a Universe of unimaginable size, then how were they smart enough to know about God or Gods?

I would really appreciate anything you have to say, I love discussing these topics, it helps me to better understand other ideas and thoughts of my fellow humans.

RAmen

I'll bite.

I'm not sure what you are referring when you mention worshiping old men in robes. And yes, Jesus or whatever else some crazy person can think up will be used to defend just about anything. It is called free will. However, the majority of Christians would find that to be a horrible act of self deceit. It sounds like I would also be against your notion of organized religion. IMO, the best way to go is the study the Bible with an eager heart and enjoy fellowship in a Bible based church. I've never understood why anyone feels the need to belong to a particular denomination outside of family heritage.

I read and study the Bible because of the truth and plain advice it offers. I went to it with an open-mind and God touched my heart.

You are right in assuming that the authors of the Bible were often simple folk, not unlike you and me. God chose them, and through him they were made great. The knowledge contained in the Bible is not wrought from human intelligence, it is divine knowledge.

My concern is not with those that question God's existence, but those that condemn and slander those that do.

Spouting off? Whoa mang, I think you just took spouting off to a whole notha level. All the cAPS LOcK and crAZY, doesn't really go to help your cause. I mean, seriously, Christians know that their history is bad, it's the hope of what is actually said in the religion that keeps them going. The hope that they don't have to be like the ones in those link you posted. That's why the guy who posted the response that you inadequately referenced even posted what he posted, he hopes for a better tomorrow. He hopes for the day when people will actually own their beliefs about not being violent and loving everyone. That's also why he believes that he can play video games and still be a Christian. He wasn't supporting Jim Wallace, he was actually chastising him just like you were with half truths and good intentions; although with less caps. As gamers, we should try to be as together as possible, man. We can educate each other, that's totally cool, but let's not hate the people who are on our own side.

R+18 FTW! Down with the fundamentalists!

Sounds to me like he made a good argument for banning the SAS/Military, not 18+ video games.

What is this guy saying? That God doesn't like us to think for ourselves?

"the only people who are going to be into this are the games people"

WTF does that even mean!?

"The only people that will be affected are the people who will be affected." Is basically what that quote is saying.

This guy admits that he has no interest in the bill because it affects him, he just wants to push his ideas onto other people. I'd say its even worse than the gay marriage debate considering how benign videogames are in overall society.

"GS AU: Who should choose which content Australian adults view?

JW: We have a system which obviously passes that responsibility to the Office of Film and Literature Classification"

How did the interviewer keep from bursting out laughing at this boneheaded response? Who decides what adults can view? How about adults choose for themselves? This is exactly why the concept of separate church and state is so important. You do NOT want crazy religious zealots like this one deciding what you can and can't watch. Kudos to the interviewer for bringing out this idiot's true motives with such a great question.

Amen.

Also, to deny Jesus existed is to rebuke history. It is undeniable. Of course, it can never be "proven" that he was the Messiah, so you can have a field day with that

The debate rages on about the historical Jesus and if he existed or not. It is NOT a proven historical fact that he did. Factually there is more evidence that he did not exist verses evidence that he did. The Romans were meticulous record keepers yet they make hardly ANY mention of Jesus if any at all. How is this possible if he was so important? During the time of Jesus's debatable existence, there were many different agitators of Roman society at least 16 that I am aware of, yet none of them went by the name Jesus.

The 1st stories about the life of Jesus were written down almost 70 years after his supposed death. Since most lifetimes in those days were barely 30 years almost 3 generations had passed by the time anything was written down. And you know and I know that word of mouth cannot maintain the same story, it has been proven time and time again with a simple experiment where you give the 1st person a bit of information and by the time it gets to the last person it has evolved into something almost completely different from the original statement. So it is impossible to say that accurate information about Jesus's life was obtained nearly 70 years later.

Doubt is the basis of all scientific knowledge.
Doubt is the enemy of ALL organized religion.

There is more evidence Jesus existed than Julius Caesar, among other notables. History has corroborated scripture in many instances. Contrarianism is a dangerous game lest you lose yourself.

Why is this debate happening here? This is Joystiq, not Jesustiq... ok that doesn't sound good...

Dear Australian Christian Lobby Group,

Thank you for continuing to perpetuate the long standing stereotype of the ignorant christian, where would we be without your superb "insight". You may equate SAS simulations to Video Games, but if you gave me a gun and told me to shoot someone after playing any violent video game, i would put the gun down slowly and walk away very quickly.

Shooting someone in real life, is not easier because i held a controller in my hand, nor would it be any less damaging to my psyche, im pretty sure i would go catatonic if i was made to shoot someone's brains out from a metre while doing it in a game is much easier, not that i go around in game shooting people in the head from up close, i just dont swing that way.

I agree with your opinion that we shouldnt have an R18 rating, because when it comes down to it, the only people effected by it are the children, and who really cares about removing mature content from children... wait, aren't christian groups the ones screaming THINK OF THE CHILDREN.

Dear Christian Lobby Group, Thank you for not thinking of the children?

The people of Australia should have an R18+ rating. Every animal in Australia wants to kill you! They're not gonna hesitate, but you will! They need violent games to train themselves for the hundreds of poisonous wildlife!

He looks like Colombian president Alvaro Uribe

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/dcblog/Alvaro%20Uribe.jpg

So he was part of the SAS and received training to break down his natural reluctance to kill other humans.

So then, outside of targets involved in sanctioned military actions, how many people has _he_ murdered because of this training?

Right because the bible is MA +15 and whenever I read it I have to fight the urge to crucify the son of God.

Update: Australia is the worst first world country.

The only people not opposed to this are the non games people.

New United States? When was I not able to buy L4D2 in it's proper awesomeness?

He makes some respectable points, but as usual I do think it's wrong to block free speech. The fact that these games would be restricted in their sales should (theoretically) be enough. It would be more productive to rally for tight control on the sales of R18+ titles.

But hey, feel free to continue your cavalcade of fanatical anti-religious comments that have absolutely nothing to do with this case, guys. Prove to characters like this what reasonable, tolerant people we gamers are.

Also, for better or worse, I think very few, if any games have made much of an attempt to capture the true horror that most sane people experience when actually killing another human being.

So the people who support the government's point of view get a say, but the people who don't are marginalized and ignored? Sounds like Australia to me! Or maybe Austria, circa 1937.

people like this give christians a bad name, not that a lot of other things we do don't give us a bad name already. ; )

I would just like people to not automatically assume we're all like that.

Yep, that guy is a douche.

I don't see a point why they are strongly against the R+18 rating in AUS. The reason why this is all happening is because all the mature gamers want to play the games they want without being limited only to the titles that are safe for 15 year olds. Are they questioning the intelligence of parents and gamers to make decisions on what to get for their kids and themselves?

Heck even 15 year olds know the difference between right and wrong! They are already past the stage where their reasoning skills are still affected by what they see and hear.

Admit it, you old geezer (no offense to the elderly gamers - I respect them) that you're traditional way of closed-minded thinking... is just too... re***ded.

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Australian Christian Lobby argues against R18+ rating

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