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Reader Comments (30)

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:13PM BrianH said

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woah.

more cliches than i can take.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:20PM minigendo said

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I agree with a large part of this article. However, it is worth noting that once you figure out what's going on in the game, things begin to speed up considerably. In a remarkably short period of time random battles swing from white knuckle tension to vaguely annoying. The problem is that the game doesn't offer anything near an adequate tutorial, something the internet community has likely already rectified. Personally I found the game to be a surprising and engaging take on the space opera genre, and recommend it.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 11:58PM PN04 said

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I didnt agree to much with the review. At the start I looked at the instruction book and said "there's no way I can learn all of this" but jumped in anyway and found tutorial information to be quickly clear and easy to understand. Any concept I didnt understand was eventually explained by talking to other characters, or opening up the help file in the game.

The only thing that TRULY annoys me about this game is the wild west style "rock/paper/scissors" gun fighting you do with space ships. Here's the deal. you do the dance of backing up and advancing on your opponent, trying to build up your meter so that you can fire once they're in your range and try to hit the dodge, fire or barrage button before they do. More often than not the computer will hit the barrage button before you know it, and since you're almost never out of range when they fire, you end up tapping an empty screen where your buttons USED to be because the computer moved first and skip to the cinema to see your ship ravaged by lasers and missles.

The modules you install DO have an effect but if you make long trips between points without stopping you wear out your crew and they make more mistakes like missing in a fire fight, so you really do have to take into account more than just your fire power and accuracy. "Liveability" goes toward the stress your crew suffers over long distances, so better livability = less stress = less missing.

I also dissagree with the idea that you cant play this in small bursts because you can save at just about every single destination before heading out to another one and risking a fire fight or two in between. So you're rarely forced to endure a long protracted situation as long as you save before you embark on another leg of your trip.
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Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:21PM DevilSei said

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Am I the only one who got a hint of an "Outlaw Star" vibe from the posted video...?

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:34PM (Unverified) said

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About accuracy. If you are fight more than one ship, you can chose which ship to attack by tapping on top. If I'm missing my shots it's the first thing I check.

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 12:02AM PN04 said

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yeah, the computer always seems to pick the hardest to hit ship (usually in the middle or back of a ship group), aim for the lead ship and you'll usually hit it as long as you're in range and they havent hit the doge button before you hit fire.
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Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:35PM (Unverified) said

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Hey man, the reason you miss is because your weapons are not in range even though your ship is. The little boxes above your ship HP bar must turn blue before you fire or else you'll mostly miss.

I always hit the ships when I fight so I'm assuming you're doing something wrong there.

Also, there are manuals with the game. Livability slows down the fatigue bar that you see when you travel from planet to planet.

Read the manual man. This is a complex game and it has a manual for a reason.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:37PM (Unverified) said

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Oh, and you should be fighting the ships in the front row first as someone mentioned. That is another reason you may miss like crazy.
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Posted: Mar 26th 2010 9:41PM (Unverified) said

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I'm about 10 hours in and I'm actually really enjoying it. Its learning curve exceeds 3 hours, so I can see the reviewer's troubles. I've actually gotten really acclimated to the battle system and with that the game has really picked up. I'm dying less and progressing in the story quicker. Really solid game. Sega did an awful job advertising this and Resonance of Fate.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 10:37PM Diezal said

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Uhh...where's the gameplay? Oh there is none...I guess I'll just go read a BOOK instead.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 11:23PM blahblah55 said

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If you'd rather read a book, then this is the game for you.

If you can't take the time to sit and read, you don't have time for this game.
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Posted: Mar 27th 2010 1:04AM PN04 said

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Posted: Mar 27th 2010 2:19AM Diezal said

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Oh ok, that link gives a much better perspective on it. The trailer shy's away from the gameplay aspect, which to me is a huge selling point.

...And I was kinda being sarcastic, I don't really want to read a book, too lazy. :-/
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Posted: Mar 26th 2010 11:35PM (Unverified) said

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Man looks like a killer anime but not a killer game.

Posted: Mar 26th 2010 11:57PM (Unverified) said

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I'm 70 plus hours in and it's a great game but it has a lot of flaws like no quest log or no real tutorial. The story is really great so far and it dose things with the story that most game don't do. Half way through the game the whole story and such change. It was a welcome surprize. One tip I can give that I haven't seen anyone mention is. When you get a quest right down the directions on a piece of paper in case you get lost or have to put the DS down for a while.
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Posted: Mar 27th 2010 3:24AM armageddon said

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@defiedfaith: I was thinking that too (but more of a captain's log in a little booklet).
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Posted: Mar 27th 2010 12:30AM Kougeru said

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awesome game but does take a bit to get into and requires patience. would make an amazing anime like tytania

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 1:35AM Folkhellfang said

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Its always sad when something you enjoy dissapoints you. This article is a pretty sad way of saying, "I don't get this game". Infinite Space is on the Demon's Souls side of difficulty and I also admit to a fine bit of frustration with the game. However, these frustrations are part of the learning curve of the game.
If you ever wanted to play an entire game that feels like the ship to ship combat of skies of arcadia, admittedly simpler in general, this is your game.
I can dig the snap decision, but I thought you guys had some taste and a stiffer upper lip.

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 2:06AM Hyperion45 said

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But aren't lasers supposed to make everything better?


... well, except for Alderaan.

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 10:05AM mediocrepanda said

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Wait, what? Was that Sheppard Book in the intro?

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 9:03PM Scuffles said

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To the best of my tinkering "Livability" decreases the rate at which your crew gathers fatigue meaning you can travel farther without suffering from as high a fatigue penalty.

Meaning the plot battle that you previously arrived to with nearly max fatigue and a painfully slow combat meter, you now arrive at with significantly less fatigue and your combat meter moves faster than molasses going uphill in January.

Personally I'm loving the game :)

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 9:14PM Scuffles said

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Bah you have failed me firefox find .... oh well someone already touched on the subject of livability =P

needless to say "livability Good", "Crew fatigue Bad"


..... tho they also mentioned the manual >.> I should probably bother to read that myself .... but its more fund to figure things out on the fly.
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Posted: Mar 27th 2010 9:35PM nawoa said

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It's really a shame the reviewer called it quits so soon, the game really is incredibly well-made. It's true there's a learning curve and the tutorials aren't very helpful though. I strongly suspect that many other reviewers on the net also reviewed the game before they finished it, since I frequently see them cite as "missing" things that come later in the game. At least this reviewer was honest about it.

I have finished the game, it took me just over 71 hours - that's with only maybe an hour total of grinding through the whole thing, which is INCREDIBLY impressive considering its JRPG roots. I was glued to my DS the whole time and just couldn't put it down. The best part is, the developers knew when they made it that you might not want to watch every cutscene and fight every random battle, so you can skip them altogether almost all the time.

The game really reminds me of Star Control 2, aka "The Ur-Quan Masters" (PC) and I would recommend it to anyone who enjoyed that game and wanted more when it was over. See, that's a big part of the "problem" with Infinite Space - it's a game that was clearly designed with the complexity and depth of a PC title. People just aren't expecting to find that on a DS.

I will admit though, the game does have a couple pretty bad weaknesses as many people say. It's often hard to tell exactly what you're supposed to be doing. You might be told to wait for orders for example - well, just flying around and making time pass isn't what the developer had in mind, they were expecting you to do stuff like visit nearby planets and see what's new. Another example would be when you're told to go to a certain destination, but are given no indication where that place is or how to get to it.

But the game's weaknesses are absolutely tiny compared to its strengths. I hope a lot of people buy this game so they'll make a sequel.

Posted: Mar 27th 2010 9:52PM nawoa said

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I should emphasize this point:

The reviewer played only 3 hours of a 70+ hour game, so it's probably to be expected that he never had an opportunity to learn the nuances of space combat. It's much more than rock-paper-scissors.

If anyone's played Starfleet Command games, combat has around the same level of complexity as them. Some things are less complex, for example movement is only forward and back instead of fully 2-dimensional. But many things are more complex, such as ship customization, fighter combat, the range of weapon loadout, special weapons, crew abilities, ship-specific weapons, race-specific weapons, etc.

It's not NECESSARY to be strategic in battles but I imagine you'd have to grind a lot if you want to be able to just mash the attack button constantly... if that's fun to you.
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Posted: Mar 28th 2010 4:56AM PN04 said

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I was at less than 3 hours when I wrote the reply I made at the top. He doesnt seem to even have made it to to the next system in 3 hours from his snap review which really doesnt do a game like this any kind of service whether it's good or bad.
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Posted: Mar 28th 2010 6:40AM (Unverified) said

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Now while the game has ideas and concepts all it's own it just rings Outlaw star so much I started watching it again and truth be told I would rather have outlaw star be made into a game then play this. Its not a awful game but too much is similar to the much better show so in point I want outlaw star the game hell your after the galactic leyline pretty much and there are military and pirates to deal with and the director was in an interview boasting how original this story is...not so much Japanese game director copying old Japanese anime!! SHAME ON YOU Boy wishes to be in space woman crashes and offer to take him to ship, boy gets his own ship and crew, crew has its own melfina, some strange cube is wanted by everyone and hold some huge secret about the universe....really so you have the balls to claim this is original? My best ship is called the outlaw Star and I'm playing it that way, lol

Posted: Mar 28th 2010 3:06PM nawoa said

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Ah... how far into the game are you, again? Your plot summary was less than the complete first 15 playable minutes of the game.

I haven't seen Outlaw Star yet, but it's on my list to watch. I'm not denying that there are probably plot similarities in some areas but frankly you're expecting too much if you think every story is going to be absolutely original from beginning to end.

While I haven't seen the specific anime you cited, I've seen a lot of others, as well as seen lots of regular TV shows, movies, and read many books. Writers draw inspiration from other writers, there are similarities everywhere.

For you to just say, "hey, I watched the game's trailer and/or played the first 15 minutes and the story's the same" is ridiculous when you put that in the context of a game that's SEVENTY HOURS LONG.
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Posted: Mar 28th 2010 10:51PM blahblah55 said

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Naruto fans say that Naruto's original... despite it not only combining concepts from several other animes (taking several "hook"-plots from old animes) and even having the balls to steal specific scenes from them.

All ideas of originality disappeared after Season 2. ...essentially becoming everything that makes other animes popular - without the real essence of those animes.

On your hand, you have a game taking away a story from an anime (Outlaw Star is one of my favorites). It's doing it in a form that's eerily similar at some points, but essentially different in goals. Like you said yourself: You'd rather play a game of Outlaw Star than this game - which already proves that they're different enough that you prefer one over the other.
This isn't "do you prefer vanilla with a hint of strawberry or vanilla with an actual strawberry" - this is a case of "do you prefer vanilla or vanilla bean vanilla". The latter situation being two different kinds of flavors but similar in make.

So your case of "not being original" isn't that strong of an argument. Most of every storyline in video games, movies, shows, books, and cartoons are taken from some other inspiration - the difference is that people add their own spices to them to make it their's.
...(Naruto on the other hand gave that up and decided to do more fanservice than the later seasons of YuGiOh! or Fushigi Yuugi... which is too much fanservice)
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Posted: Mar 28th 2010 3:52PM nawoa said

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In case this helps anyone confused by what some of the modules do:

- Cargo bays are for transporting cargo, which is a strictly passive thing. As you fly from inhabited planet to inhabited planet you get extra income per unit of storage you have when you arrive. I'm not sure if the total distance traveled or the population of the different planets you travel to have any effect.

- Accounting offices reduce the amount of "waste" there is when you do cargo runs. Imagine you have a ship loaded with cargo, but you're not keeping track of what that cargo is, how much it's worth, where it's located, or who wants it.

- Many statistics are pooled between ships. For example livability can be really high on one ship in your fleet (100+) and make up for the fact that the rest of your ships have no crew recreation facilities whatsoever (~30). I believe it's an average though, so installing some basics on all your ships will allow you to travel almost indefinitely without visiting a spaceport.

- Radar range also seems to be shared, however keep in mind that if you only have one ship with radar and it's disabled, you're up the creek. The ship with the longest range provides the radar for your fleet - the effects of multiple radar arrays is not cumulative and does not boost your accuracy.

- Smaller ships recharge your command points faster. An all-battleship fleet will be much slower at firing than an all-destroyer fleet, unless you have much better bridge technology.

- Training facilities boost the rate at which people gain experience, and thus level up. I'm unsure of the exact formula but I think a good guess would be that, for example, if you have something specified to give a +2 to navigation, then people who are assigned to navigation posts will level up faster than they would otherwise.

- I'm unsure what briefing rooms/war rooms are for exactly, I think they have to do with experience gained, perhaps adding experience to all active crewmembers instead of just the ones assigned to a specific post.

- Sickbays increase the rate at which your crew recovers during and after battle. If you're short on crew, every aspect of your ship will suffer. I believe sickbay effects are pooled between all ships but I haven't tested this.

- Thuster control rooms boost your ships' ability to dodge shots even without being in "dodge" mode.

- If you're having difficulty in melee combat, notice the numbers on the screen. The biggest numbers indicate how many crew each side is bringing to the battle, for you it's a total of all the ships in your fleet. Extra crew modules can boost this and give you a great advantage. The smaller numbers indicate how "good" your melee power is. Obviously if it's like your 30 to the enemy's 60, you will have to get very good at playing the pseudo-rock-paper-scissors game. You can boost your melee power by building security modules and assigning crew to the security posts. Just by doing this you can go from melee being extremely difficult to it being almost impossible to lose.

- "AS ATTACK" (anti-ship attack) is not pooled between ships as far as I know. The likelihood of your weapons hitting their target can be summed up like this: [(AS Attack + Weapon Accuracy + Formation Position + Assigned Crew's Artillery Skill) - (Maneuverability + Formation Position)]

- It doesn't matter what ship you put modules on, they will always be effective as long as that ship is assigned to an active place in your fleet. Things don't need to be mounted on your flagship unless they say so in their description.

- It doesn't matter whatsoever where components are placed on a ship, except that your main bridge must fit within the red area, and the engine must fit within the yellow area. Later on, fighter bays will have to fit adjacent to hangars, but they don't have to be completely inside the designated space.

- Ability 1 is Yuri's unique ability, Ability 2 is the unique ability of whoever's assigned to first officer, and Ability 3 is the unique ability of your flagship - assuming it has one.

- Reading through the in-game help files periodically as they're updated will help you in more ways than one.

- People you assign to engineering (or was it maintenance...?) repair your fleet over time. If you have skilled people in these posts, and good recreation facilities for your crew, you could go from one end of the galaxy to the other without passing even 20% fatigue or needing to stop at any planets for repairs. This could be... valuable.

- As you get more modules and crew available to you, you'll probably have difficulty scrolling through menus since each pixel represents a big shift in the menu. In this case you can use the d-pad.

Posted: Mar 28th 2010 4:15PM nawoa said

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I wanted to clarify:

- Thruster control rooms improve your ships' maneuverability, the factor that makes enemy shots (normal and barrage attacks alike) to miss. This is a completely passive effect and has nothing to do with regular dodge commands. Therefore maneuverability can be just as important as your armor or durability.

- Being in dodge mode and getting hit with a normal attack is nowhere near as bad as being in normal mode and getting hit with a barrage attack. Being in dodge reduces your maneuverability and increases the chance for critical hits (which ignore armor), but unless your ships have very low durability this isn't nearly as bad as being hit with a barrage. So if you need to be defensive, using "dodge" or else running away is the best move. If you need to be offensive, using "normal" or tricking your enemy into using an ineffective barrage and then hitting him with your own is the most effective move. This is even before I add fighters, special weapons, and abilities into the mix. Even comparing the space combat to rock-paper-scissors only shows how little of the game many reviewers have played.

- Similarly, during melee combat it's not simply rock-paper-scissors. "Leader" attacks do no damage at all versus other "leader" attacks. But "slash" does medium damage against other "slash" attacks, and "shoot" does low damage against other "shoot" attacks. This means that slash is the best attack, but it's the most common to see, so it's a bit reckless to use. With these and other factors in mind, by the end of my 70 hour game I was able to often beat the AI without a single casualty. It's not "rock paper scissor" even if it resembles this at first.
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