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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:50PM (Unverified) said

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Good read, thanks for posting Joystiq.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:19PM Extinction said

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"Now, imagine if a company disabled a feature like that on all existing units to encourage people to buy an upgraded hardware model, which regains the feature, or a software update to re-enable the feature. "

Apple has been doing that with the iphone
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:42PM azuravian said

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@Extinction

Pardon my ignorance on the matter, but what features were actually removed from the iPhone after sale, and then added back in later versions?
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:54PM Vidikron said

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@DJAtomica

Except many EU countries make the directives into laws... that's the point of the directives.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:17PM Mayor West said

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Anyone upset with the removal of the OS feature should take it up with George "Geohot" Hotz.

Feel free to send your hate mail to: http://geohotps3.blogspot.com/2010/03/dont-update.html
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:17PM MarkMethenitis said

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DJAtomica:

Explaining this on the baseline of the EU Directive (which is a minimum standard that had to be enacted by all member states) was far simpler than trying to explain this as implemented in every state in the EU. It's just like speaking in terms of general legal concepts in the US rather than presenting this as a 50 state analysis. If these articles went to that level of detail, they would be 10,000 words and no one would read them.

As I pointed out in another comment, this is a questions of advertising and representations to induce sale, not Sony's rights under the EULA.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 8:33PM Takahashi said

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@ Extinction: Yes, but in all cases they have waited over three years of the original sell date. Apple phased out the Firewire support for the iPods once it got past about three or four years, as did they when they dropped PowerPC CPU support from their newest operating system. The first iPhone came out three years ago, and is past it's warranty. Therefor it isn't in any sort of violation, as the product did what it was to do during it's time supported.

In this case, several PS3's have been purchased in less then two years that have supported the "Other OS" option. Therefor it does violate this as he has said.
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Posted: Apr 16th 2010 2:47PM Psykechan said

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Apples to oranges. If you bought an early iPod that used firewire, it still uses firewire today. Later revisions of it may not but that is meaningless; your particular device still supports it!

I bought a first generation (fat) PS3 that can run other OSes. When Sony released the PS3 slim (which didn't have the option) my PS3 still supported other OSes because it wasn't a damn PS3 slim! What Sony has done here is removed functionality that I paid for because they decided it wasn't worth their while to support it.

Seriously, this would be like the next firmware update to the PSP making it so that *all* PSPs (fat, slim, lite, and go) stop playing UMD games and movies because the PSP go doesn't have a UMD drive! Someone please tell me how that would be any different.
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Posted: Apr 16th 2010 5:42PM BIGGEN said

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if you want to go the apple route, which you easily could, one thing immediately comes to mind. any iphone before the 3gs won't be included in the OS 4.0 when its released because as apple says, any iphone model before the 3gs or ipod touch before the 3rd gen model will not be able to run the features in OS 4.0 and will not be included in the update. meaning, you must update your hardware if you want those features. well, jailbroken iphone 3g and jailbroken ipod touch 2nd gen owners would like to have a say in that because they have been doing things like running multi apps and categories (folders) for quite some time now.
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Posted: Apr 17th 2010 12:04AM Jet said

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@azuravian the iPod touch 2g had a bluetooth chip in it the entire time and only got bluetooth enabled after 3.0
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Posted: Apr 19th 2010 2:18PM Grifter02 said

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@BIGGEN:

You're not getting it... Apple never marketed the older iPhones/iPods as having the ability to install OS 4.0, so they have no obligation to support it on those older models. If they had put on the packaging and marketing materials for the iPhone 3G that it would eventually be compatible with OS 4.0, and then it wasn't, then that would be a similar situation. What you're talking about is the same as saying people should sue Sony because their PS2 won't play PS3 games.
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Posted: Apr 27th 2010 2:32AM DjDATZ said

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BIGGEN, the 3G and the iPod Touch 2G will get every feature of OS4 EXCEPT multitasking.

One thing I will call Apple on is that it seems to be more of a marketing push to get the 3GS out of the door, because, let me tell you, my 3G can background a full app and still run another one in the foreground. With a revised OS that uses APIs to run the backgrounding, I fail to see how the 3G couldn't support it... But whatever, I'll still jailbreak my 3G and my 4G/HD when lands in my hands on the 22nd of June.

See if I care Apple. Give me my SBSettings and I MIGHT not jailbreak it. lol
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:52PM (Unverified) said

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Excellent article. Even though I did not use this feature on my PS3, it definitely helped open my eyes to what the future of digital gaming could look like. And it's scary.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 6:47PM Falcon Punch said

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It's scary indeed.

Nintendo has already done this on the wii when it took away .mp3 support in one of its updates.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/13/wii-to-drop-mp3-support-add-aac-in-photo-channel-update/
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Posted: Apr 16th 2010 2:51PM Psykechan said

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The mp3 removal was from the photo channel only. The Wii still supports mp3 playback via software like Excite Truck.
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Posted: Apr 19th 2010 11:44AM LOUiECOG said

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Actually, since that is not a mandatory update, it is not the same thing. My Wii still plays MP3s on the photo channel because I just did not update the photo channel. I could still get onto the Wii Shop channel and buy games, unlike PS3 firmware 3.21 where if I didn't update, I was locked out of the PS Store.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:55PM (Unverified) said

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I am a launch PS3 customer. I have not and probably never will have used the "Other OS" option. This still ticks me off that they can remove a feature this big though. If backwards compatibility at somepoint in the future becomes a security hole, that means they can issue a firmware update to block that too. That is BS.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:13PM Luckychunk said

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I too am a launch PS3 owner. I have not yet updated the firmware. I have not installed Linux (yet), and I may never will, but taking away/uninstalling/removing a feature from a purchased item's feature list is absolute garbage. It's like removing the Pause button from a VCR -- it's not needed, but a helluvalotta people would be pissed if this happened.

I seldomly connect to the PSN, I hardly ever buy any DLC, I never game online, and if I want to buy a game that needs 3.21 or later, I just might go and buy a Slim, keeping my launch PS3 as I see fit, not Sony, should I feel the need to install Linux sometime down the line.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:40PM NightElve said

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The thing that you fail to understand is that the security hole was not in SONY code but via Linux this guy was able to access the system.

When he said it would be impossible for SONY to patch the security hole I'm assuming that it would be impossible to patch every Linux flavor out there and after all you could install any Linux version you wanted to.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:42PM Kodros said

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"I just might go and buy a Slim, keeping my launch PS3 as I see fit, not Sony, should I feel the need to install Linux sometime down the line."

Why not just buy a Linux PC?
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:46PM (Unverified) said

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The thing you fail to understand is an exploit is an exploit and if an exploit can be found in the backwards compatibility chip, they will "fix" it.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:47PM Vidikron said

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"The thing that you fail to understand is that the security hole was not in SONY code but via Linux this guy was able to access the system."

That's incorrect. Yes, Linux is used to expose the security hole (along with a hardware hack), but it's definitely an issue with the PS3 itself.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:28PM BananaBoat said

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Which is why I've been saying that this isn't a patch for a security hole at all. The vulnerability already exists in millions of units, and those that would exploit it won't bother upgrading (they'll use custom firmware, just like on the PSP). The only people put out by Sony's update are the people that were legitimately using Linux on their PS3's. That kind of how things always go though; consumers get screwed while pirates enjoy all the benefits that consumers can't.


As consumers, we need the protections for physical goods to be extended to digital goods. The right to re-sell a digital good for instance, to put a digital good on another platform (even if it has DRM) etc. Until we get those protections, we'll never have any recourse when issues like this come up.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 11:17PM davek said

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Not only that, but you cannot use the security exploit to run pirated games. It only allows access to view the contents of RAM.

This entire update is bullshit on Sony's part, for so many reasons. It really is sad that a company has so much retroactive control of an item that we paid money for.
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Posted: Apr 16th 2010 10:50AM Walo said

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@Night Elve, wrong. The security hole is in the Hypervisor code. Linux is used to access that hole since linux is installed on top of the hypervisor. They could have patched the hypervisor code but instead they chose to remove the hypervisor code.
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Posted: Apr 16th 2010 7:06PM sqlrob said

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@kodros:

The PS3 is order of magnitudes faster than a PC for some operations.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:55PM r4in said

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Rather interesting.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:55PM (Unverified) said

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"likely to break on its own"

So, can I have a refund on my RRoD Xbox 360?

Also, I want a refund on MW2 for removing the Party Chat feature on my Xbox while I play it.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:05PM Dustin F said

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Yes, you can have a refund on your RROD 360. Of course. Always buy that kind of stuff with a good credit card with good consumer protection.

I sent my RROD 360 back and got a chargeback. I did not accept a replacement because I use my consoles for a very long time. I still play my NES and PS1. I think the 360 is fixed, and the upcoming one will probably be very reliable, so my complaint isn't that big a deal anymore.

But older 360s probably won't last as long as I want my console to last.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:01PM Ericloewe said

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Yes, you can theoretically try and get a refund for your RROD, but it's infinitely less traumtic to send it in for repairs (the warranty is 3 years, not two).

As for MW2, no such luck. It was known beforehand and was not patched later.

If I had a PS3 I'd probably never install Linux on it, however, as a matter of principle, I'd send it back to Sony demanding a refund.

Seriously. What is this new Business Model Sony is adopting? Take away more and more features until there's nothing left? This was the lazy way out: Sony could've patched the hypervisor code (if there is even one, if not, implement one).

It's at times like this I prefer my 3 year warranty on RRODs and similar problems.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:13PM Dustin F said

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No theory about it. I got a full refund by telling American Express it failed.

A lot of people did. I didn't think it was that difficult, and I've never had a chargeback on something else.

Sure, if you have a library of games, it's more cost effective to try to deal with MS and a replacement, but I only had 2 games, and I gave them to a friend and bought a PS3.

The 360 doesn't have this problem anymore, but I doubt they will work as often as PS3s do 20 years from now.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 5:32PM Kodros said

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"Seriously. What is this new Business Model Sony is adopting? Take away more and more features until there's nothing left? This was the lazy way out: Sony could've patched the hypervisor code (if there is even one, if not, implement one)."

How did we go from removing one feature, OtherOS, to Sony removing every feature? Then you say that Sony could have patched it and then you admit that you don't even know if what they could have patched exists to begin with...huh? I don't think Sony can do that anyways. It was a hardware hack that, I believe, the only reason GeoHot could do it was because he had control over what the OtherOS could send to the Cell. He even stated himself that he doesn't think that this is something Sony can patch.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 3:57PM eimajtl said

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Huh. This was pretty interesting - even if you don't own a PS3. I've been wondering about possible legal ramifications for Sony since they announced Linux would be yanked.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:00PM cinders720 said

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Good article. Who knew this feature would have caused this uproar back when the PS3 was young.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:00PM Nook said

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I have not owned my slim long enough to know this, I do know however that for the Wii if there is an update and you skip it, eventually you will have a new game to play that will force the update on the system prior to allowing the disk to boot into play mode.

If this is the same for PS3, which I would venture a guess as 'yes it is' - then skipping the update is simply not a case of not being able to gain access to PSN, it will disallow future titles from being played without the system being at the latest software revision.

Maybe someone can confirm the PS3 does ship software updates on disks? If not - downvote this to oblivion to prevent mis-information from being spread.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:14PM T Crespo said

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If your console isn't hooked up to the Internet I don't think it'd be a problem.

Since you have a slim you'd be uneffected any ways
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:18PM Vidikron said

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Yes, you are right. There haven't thus far been very many games that have forced updates, but "Ratchet & Clank: A Crack in Time" is one example. It requires the 3.15 update before you can play.

Also, in the release notes for 3.21 they not only warn that you won't be able to sign into PSN without the update, they also warn you that some future games and Blu-ray discs may not work.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:33PM MrAlex said

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It only bars you from PSN, however you can download updates from your computer onto a USB stick and install it from there.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:40PM Vidikron said

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@MrAlex

What are you talking about? You can always still download updates through the XMB even when barred from PSN. In fact, that's how all mandatory updates work. You try to log in and it says you can't and tells you to update. So you go to the update menu and update.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:52PM Dustin F said

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FYI, if you refuse to update your PS3, you can still update your PS3 without or with USB sticks.

Obviously that the one part of the PSN that non-updated PS3s can still access, so as to update.

Good grief.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 6:02PM MrAlex said

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@Vidikron, he was saying that he can't update anyway because his PS3 isn't connected anyway, and asked if it's possible to get updates on disks, and I told him he can get them on USB off a computer.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 8:20PM Courtney said

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Alex, he wasn't asking about needing an update on a disc, he was wondering whether firmware updates are included on any game discs and required to install to play some games, which is apparently what the Wii does.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:02PM CaptainProtonX said

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"By now you've installed the PS3 Firmware 3.21 update that removes the "Other OS" option..."

No, I haven't. And I won't.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:05PM Nobledevil Gaming Optimist said

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May I ask what you actually use Linux for? Just curious since I've heard of people being angry about this because they can't code for the Cell - which is the only legitimate reason I've heard for this feature being used regularly (which I actually thought would end up as a way for people to make indie games on a super-low budget using nothing but a PS3, but nothing came of that).
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:12PM Dustin F said

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Good for you, man.

I was going to do the same, but I decided it just wasn't worth it.

While I used otherOS every bloody day, and even was helping work on the PowerPC fedora to help release a version with immediate support of Sixaxis and many other features, I also paid for a PS3 with PSN access.

I decided the games were worth more to me than the Linux, and put my old PC back under the TV.

This is extremely lame. No PC on earth does everything as well as the PS3 with Linux did, despite the PS3's RAM and Graphics limitations (I wasn't trying to pirate games anyway). I needed a compiler and I want to get better at Cell programming.

As Insomniac complained, this is really hurting the PS3's community of aspiring PS3 developers. I hope Sony understands that they really screwed a loyal fanboy level customer. I'm still going to play and enjoy me PS3 to the full, but I will try to be a PC gamer next generation. Sony was right that a system running an OS and playing awesome games is great... that's what they promised me years ago when selling me this PS3. I'll try to get that next generation, knowing that Sony simply can't be trusted to honor their word.

I know a ton of PS3 games have no appreciation for Linux. I personally have no appreciation for mp3 playback, but I wouldn't bash someone who complained if Sony removed the ability to play non DRMed music.

Sony can and should release some kind of highly controlled programming environment and compiler. I think a tightly constrained YDL, playable from the XMB and requiring login to PSN to start (and thus, very tight control and piracy prevention) is an acceptable compromise. I have contacted Sony to try to work this out, but they are not replying. Not too surprising... but even if they did release this comprimise, it's of limited value since they can just break it if they want.

The promises of liars aren't worth much, even though Sony makes awesome stuff and the best console, in my opinion.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 6:20PM The Aquacharger said

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I wasn't going to but my RB DLC and Demon's Souls told my me otherwise.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:03PM MICHAEL ATKINSON said

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does'nt the fat models box claim that feature, if it did i'd see a very real problem with that,all the retailers would have to place warning stickers advising of this lost feature.

Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:08PM T Crespo said

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Yes but spotting a older model that still has this feature plus being in the original packaging is fairly rare I'd assume. Hell most consumers wouldn't know Linux was or how to install it to the system
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 4:14PM Dustin F said

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millions of PS3 owners downloaded Linux.

Millions.

Most people do not use the 5th seat belt in the middle of their back seat, but if Ford removes it, have a right to be annoyed.

Even though the EULA might give them the legal right, it's still a breach of honor and trust.
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Posted: Apr 15th 2010 7:15PM Dark Archon PSN Archonik XBL Dar said

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"millions of PS3 owners downloaded Linux"
Bullshit. There's 34 million PS3 owners. A big chunk of it is PS3 Slim which doesn't even do Linux. "Millions of PS3 owners" means that over 6% (and about 10% of PS3 Fat users) of the total PS3 userbase installed Linux. I find that number very unlikely considering that only about 50% of PS3s are connected to the internet at all.
Do you think that 20% of the people that are nerdy enough to plug their console to the internet install linux on it? I don't. I had a friend who "changed games" on his PS3 by powering it off and changing discs, because he didn't know what the "PS Button" was all about.

I think you are just making your numbers up, my good sir.
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