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Reader Comments (72)

Posted: May 29th 2010 3:42AM The MARIO said

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No Thank You.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:58AM (Unverified) said

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The answer for EA is simple. State that they're moving all the online features into paid services, and that people who purchase the game new get a free pass, just like how XBox Live Gold is a paid service but frequently free months are given away with various games.

As a gamer, I really don't have any problem with EA wanting extra cash for the online portion. If I buy a game for 30 bucks used rather than 60 bucks new, I can afford to spend something more to support the developers and the servers. But only if it means that they follow that route INSTEAD of the DRM-of-death route. I don't want to have to sell my soul and firstborn child to Ubisoft to install the game in the first place and then have them demand that I pay them more for the privilege of getting spat on.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 8:23AM Scuffles said

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As a gamer I do have a problem with it ...... when you hear scuttlebutt that a developer spent 50million on developing a game and 150milion on marketing ...... then they bellyache about how games are so expensive to make..... and then it needs a patch in the first month to solve some random game crippling issue.

Yeah games need marketing but three quarters of the budget and what you cut that out of quality control or something...... seriously ........????

Then again I guess I wouldn't complain if so many of the games coming out didn't need patches to work properly ......... if I wanted to patch games on my console ..... I'd be playing them on my computer.
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Posted: May 30th 2010 3:45AM (Unverified) said

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Remember the time you just paid $50 for a disc and that was the end of it? Good times, good times...
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:58AM Reinhart said

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It'd be a great show if FTC did get involved and EA got into trouble, but that's not now.

I don't know. The article included the possibility that EA's Online Pass might not be successful, but it's doubtful. Big corporation always get what they want, why? Because there always seems to be more customers that are willingly to pay, compared to customers that won't, especially in the case of luxuries in the field of entertainment. People didn't like DLC, but it caught on anyways. People don't like DRM in Assassin's Creed 2, but it's still going to be there in games in some form (plus, people didn't realize until they've paid the money). Games used to cost a lot less, and now a lot more, people are still buying. Most gamers are just whiners who complain but comply, eventually. It's needed, for them, like cars (transportation) and food. They don't like that it costs so much, but they need it so they'll pay for it, maybe less of it, or come up with more money for more of it. And if people didn't buy the first games with Online Pass, they're just going to put it in more games.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 9:49AM Faenix said

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What? games have been $39.99 - $59.99 ($59.99 since well into PS2-gen, from what I remember) for quite awhile. Game prices haven't changed too much.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 9:52AM Faenix said

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Or do you mean to make? XD
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:02AM Demachine said

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Alright this is just leeching the poor customers. If we as consumers don't oppose this then other companies will follow suite.

Every game studio should aim for the maximum number of original copies sold. Reselling games should stay the way they are, consumers shouldn't have to pay for this sensless online pass.

Now comes maintanence for their servers. The studio makes a hell lot of money from DLCs. Now if a game is resold 4 times (hypothetically) that's potentially 4 times their DLC buyers. Come on!

Now there are game studios that have provided updates, game contents, playlist changes and in game changes free of cost because it's their responsibility when they sell the game. The operating cost of a game should be calculated before they sell their game to the audience. Bungie has provided playlists, game and frequent changes ery often and so has many other studios.

I am disappointed by EA and would rather not buy their used games. It's a personal opinion and i think this is just robbing the second buyers.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:36AM Acosta02 said

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"I am disappointed by EA and would rather not buy their used games. It's a personal opinion and i think this is just robbing the second buyers."

You're not going to buy their used games?

That'll teach 'em.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 5:52AM Jacksy said

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@syed haque

Even though EA could potentially make money for doing this, it'll be money that was theirs in the first place..well sorta, this is basically aimed for places like Gamestop where they sell your used games and all that money goes to GS, which is ok but they dont really do shit lol. (GS price used games the same as a new copy sometimes). And you can search in Joystiq what Gamestop had to say in response to this whole online pass. I for one dont really like GS, so I somewhat agree with EA, I have to hand it to them for trying it could get them lots of cash in the long run I suppose.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 8:30AM Scuffles said

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Yeah with the current used game market your going to save on average ~$5 at best which really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

The only time buying used makes sense is when they have some insane used game sale 30-50% off or Buy X get Y. Otherwise there really isn't much reason not to fork out that extra $5.

Regardless when they start (explicative deleted) like this the only winning move is not to play ...... but then everyone loses ..... well everyone loses when it isn't a sports game their passing on buying.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:22AM Altairio said

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Gamestop is not the entirety of the used game market. This affects any second sale or rental: ebay, half.com, amazon sellers, goozex, gamefly, blockbuster, craigslist, etc.

And you don't only save $5 on used games. That may be the typical markdown for newer used games at Gamestop, but again, they aren't the whole used game market. Used games and renting can save the average gamer a lot of money over the long haul, and the shift to online pass means fewer of them will take part in the online community of those games, which is unfortunate and I don't think EA really thought about that. They may actually be shortening the "long tail" with this move.

It also means the value of the used game goes down, which ironically means more people will be tempted to buy used since it just got even cheaper, especially if they don't particularly care about online play.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 2:08PM Tachyonic Cargo said

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@JACKSY PHILIS

That does not make any sense.

By your logic, anytime anyone anywhere sells something used, then the original manufacturer needs to get paid for that transaction - and anything that manufacturer can do to force used owners to pay the premium, is all good.

So if I sold my car to someone in the classified ads, so that I can afford to buy a new minivan to transport my growing family around in, then it's Ford Motor Company who deserves to get paid from the transaction, as they made my car originally, and the money was theirs in the first place.

And if I sold one of my TV's used so I can afford one to buy one of the new 3DTVs, then it's Samsung who should profit from the transaction, as they made the TV set originally, and the money was theirs in the first place.

And I guess also, that if I sold my house so that I could afford a larger one, that whatever contractor who built my current home back in the 1930s, they still need to profit from the transaction as well, because they built the house and the money was theirs in the first place.

Applying your logic that game companies deserve to make profit on used game sells, because they made the game and the money was theirs in the first place - if I applied that logic to everything in the world, we would crash the entire global economy into a bottomless pit, that would make the Great Depression look like a day on vacation at Disneyland.

The question that people should be asking themselves, is what makes games so special that of all the products ever produced in history, the original makers *deserve* to make more money from the sell of second hand product?

Let me give you people a little Econ 101 knowledge. The entire economy, not just games, but the entire global economy, is floated on the back of pre-owned sells. Different people at different economic brackets, who can logically only afford so much for any given product, and spend accordingly. Some can't afford to buy products new, so they buy used. And others who cannot afford to buy products new, unless they know they can sell it used later, and recoup some of their investment. This is a fact of economics that transcends gaming, and carries over into all aspects of economics. Entire companies buy used goods (say like a used office building, or new equipment), because it is more fiscally responsible choice for that corporate entity. Why should companies be able to buy used on one hand, and on the other hand, deny their customers the same right?

Don't let the game publishers fool you into thinking that the last 15 years of recordbreaking videogame sales growth, was all their fault, and had nothing to do with the back end of the market, which sees as many as 1/3 of all new purchases only being able to be afforded, because someone sold a game to someone else, used.

Just like every other product ever sold, the money you speak of, stopped being EA's the moment they sold the game to the distributor. They made their profit. And they continue to make more money on that game to everyone who buys it pre-owned via the DLC market.

If videogame companies really want to turn huge profits, reach the largest audience possible, and decrease the need for pre-owned sales, instead of punishing gamers at every turn with higher and higher prices, they need to take a page from the film industry, and lower the prices of all premium games to $20 - $25 range. A game costs $20 million to make, while a film costs $200 million to make, yet at $20 for a DVD, films are not only appreciated by a far larger audience than videogames ever have been. Currently, home video makes up 75% of the profit for the film industry (that's growth on top of what they making at the box office), draws in more money than the entire videogame industry, and it never would have if they had kept the price of home video in the $90 to $150 range that video tapes used to sell for when they first came out. It was only by lowering the price to a point where home video was affordable for just about anyone, that this kind of growth was even possible. The PS2, the highest selling game console in history, moved and estimated 200 million units over a ten year period. Seems like a lot of gamers, don't it. Now compare that with DVD players, or VHS players, which sell that many units every year. In the ten years it took PS2 to move 200 million units, home video players like DVD and VHS players, moved an estimated 2 billion units. Now that sounds like a lot of movie buffs.

Games are in the same position now, that home video was in the early 1980s, when they dropped the price on home video to $20 - $25. The average cost to make a film at the time was around the $20 million mark, and climbing. Which is the average price to make a game now. The global audience for film was ingrained and well established, just like now, the global market for games is ingrained and well established. So why are game publishers still trying to raise the prices on games, closing off the size of their audience (and believe me, charging for services after the sell, like EA's Online Pass, is raising the price of the game), when lowering it, could put game consoles in the homes of 2 billion people in a decade's time?

Maybe the game industry execs need to go back to school, and learn some rudimentary economics, before they nickel and dime themselves into an industry wide crash. Games cost $20 million each now, what are these bozos going to do when the average game costs $50 million to make . . . $75 million to make . . . $100 million to make . . . ? At the rate they are going, games are going to cost $100 million to make in ten years, and they are going to be charging gamers $250 (including back end services) per game. Honestly, they can only go up so far with retail pricing and back end service charges, before they finally paint themselves into a corner and crash the entire gaming market. It's happened to other industries, so don't go getting the idea in your head that it cannot happen to the games industry.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:07PM Mktoast said

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How ironic you mentioned bungie as your example seeing as how they're now an EA partner.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:22PM The Scout said

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@Mktoasty

What? Aren't they signed up with Activision?
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:46PM Fata1Stryke said

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@Altairio It's Goozex that bothers me in particular, I don't buy used much but I do trade here and there.

@Mktoasty Yup, they're with Acti, not EA.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 8:57PM The Aquacharger said

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EA announced you get 10 free day trial for trades and rented games.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 10:58PM Jacksy said

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@Tachyonic Cargo WHOA!

Im sorry but i am not going to read all that ! WTF? Are you kidding me ?! Nah, jk. I didnt read it but w/e man I was just trying to help out by explaining what EA is trying to do. But whatever, you know? Do what you guys want it really doesn't matter to me. See ya later guys! Stay cool.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:04AM DevilSei said

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"When a game is purchased new, EA makes money"

Honestly, I believe this line is mostly false. EA makes its money once the distributors buy the game from them to stock. So once it leaves them, they gain nothing more afterwords (besides having to sell more for them to restock it, which is where the line is true). For all we know, they charge 25 bucks for distributors to buy the copies, so when one is sold to us, the consumer, they only make a profit of 35$ (other factors not taken into account here). If that is then used to purchase a replacement copy, then that is only 10$ extra.

But when a game is returned, they can give us that 10$, and sell the game for 20-30$ (or in gamestop's case at times, 50-55$). The profit could easily jump beyond just that 10$.



As for the pass system? Its perfectly fine to me. While it sucks for those wanting to rent the game to try it, its better than paying for a monthly fee on top of a monthly fee when it comes to Microsoft and the 360. That's not exactly something I'd look forward to either unless its on the cheap side (people would only accept at most 5$ a month probably)


Besides, if you think 10$ for everything is bad, then Biowares 15$ keys must be worse, since it doesn't even guarantee you every bit of DLC released (and half of the paid-dlc is all collectors gear).
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:19AM xhunter89x said

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Actually Game Stop only makes about 6 dollars per new game sold and they make the majority of their profits through used games.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:25AM Acosta02 said

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"While it sucks for those wanting to rent the game to try it,"

There's a free trial period.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:46AM DevilSei said

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Ahh, I was just throwing out numbers, thanks for the correction hunter, and I didn't know that either acosta.

So, the rental isn't that bad an issue then, depending on how the trial period is handled, and unless they are going through gamefly, they likely won't have it for more than a week or two.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 4:23AM (Unverified) said

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I believe that if this is a successful model with ES games, I would not be surprised if other game types adopt a code lock on content that ships with the disc.
Imagine Bioshocks fist half of the game being playable for anyone Or Red Dead Redemption is playable up through the attack on Fort Myers, but to move ahead in either game requires a $10 code (which is free with new purchase.)
I do believe this will be a fact in the years ahead, but I do not see it hurting the buyer of used games, I see it influencing Gamestop and people who trade in their games. The consumer will realize that there is a $10-$15 additional cost added into a used game purchase so both trade ins and used games will be less once the market adjusts to the new model.
All that will happen to the packaging is there will be a new block of test that will be preceded by...

"These features are available with the ' Your An Awesome Customer License (tm) '

Chapters 5 - 20 of the single player campaign
Online Multiplayer
27 new Guns to unlock
20 additional maps
Friends List
A New Hat!

' Your An Awesome Customer License (tm) ' Code included with factory sealed copy of Game.
' Your An Awesome Customer License (tm) ' additional $15.00 for used game purchase
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Posted: May 29th 2010 5:31AM Scuffles said

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Awesome I already Avoid EA games like the plague and even before that they couldn't pay me to (buy/play/be in the same room as) an EA sports title, So......

So do whatever you want EA.............

Actually here is one for you why not go ahead and charge people who buy your games new an yearly fee for the right to play them at all ...... you can call it "Season Tickets"
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Posted: May 29th 2010 1:16PM liquidsoap89 said

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Does that mean you missed out on Dead Space?
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:02PM Scuffles said

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Unfortunately it does, looked like an awesome game too but I find myself forced to stick to my principles. Haven't touched an EA game in about six years now I'm pretty careful to scan the list of publishers on all the games I buy so I don't think anything EA has slipped through.

The only reason I watched the anime was because it happened to be on TV.

Just seems like everytime I am about to say to hell with it, break down and buy an EA game or a game from a company EA has absorbed they go and pull some jackass stunt like this and ensure another 365 days of me not doing business with them.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 5:26PM Granger said

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Why though? What's your beef with them anymore? EA is a vastly different company than they were in 2000-2005, and they've done a complete 180 as far as their 'absorbing' of other companies is concerned. Bioware, Critereon, and DICE are thriving still. It really sucked to see Pandemic go, but they kind of brought it upon themselves with their last few mediocre games. And even better, they're more focused on supporting independent developers than just about any publisher out there. EA Partners is a model that's making waves through the 'industry,' and it benefits everyone involved - Activision, THQ, and Namco Bandai, among others, have already launched similar programs.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 6:10AM coiled string said

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I'm not an EA sports fan but love other EA titles if this spreads through their range of titles can I buy a new copy without an online code and get it at a reduced price, as I don't do online.
Maybe all EA games should be sold cheaper without automatic online and leave the decision to the purchaser to buy the online add-on.
I have family in the sticks with little to no access to decent internet and they just don't need it.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 8:16AM Scuffles said

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as nice as selling games cheaper without the code sounds ...... thats never going to happen. Same sort of pipe dream people had with digital distribution ...... like the company would cut people in on the savings from cutting out the packaging and a majority of the distribution costs. Now steam has had some awesome sales but a game at launch that costs say ~49.99 is going to be ~49.99 regardless of where you buy it (save for the freak launchday/week deals but that's all on the point of sale.).

This isn't about the price of the game its about punishing people who buy used.

Its essentially the video game equivalent of shareware or crippleware. Actually takes a double stab at the used market.

Firstly that you have to pay money to unlock features if you buy the game used (which in theory will drop the price and by proxy the trade in value of similar games..... not that sports games have ever been worth the whatever they were printed on ...... just go down to your local mom and pop and I bet they have three shelves of some EA Madden game for the genesis that they couldn't pay people to haul away.)

Secondly that when they pull support for the game your just SOL as far as ever getting the features they lopped off (making the games at that point almost totally worthless.... tho the same thing goes with pretty much any game for this console generation that shipped out gimped and needed a patch to work properly...... "ship now fix later" FTL.)
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Posted: May 30th 2010 10:47PM erac3rx said

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I think you'll be happy with how this plays out. Now that used EA games will require $10 to activate online multiplayer, the used copies Gamestop will have in droves just days after release will have to be priced at more of a discount. No one who cares about online multiplayer will pay $55 for a week old copy of Madden 11.. it'll end up costing them more than a new copy at that price. Gamestop will pretty much have to price used copies of EA games no higher than $49.99.

So every time you want a new EA game for your family that doesn't play online, just wait a few days until they've got used ones and go buy it for under $50 guaranteed.

That's what I think is so funny about all this. To anyone who doesn't care about online multiplayer (I'm in the same boat as you), EA just guaranteed I won't buy any of their games new anymore. Now paying full price for an EA title is just a rip-off to me, as online multiplayer has a big fat $10 price tag on it now.

I'll be able to buy minty-fresh copies on ebay or at GS for $10 less than full price basically instantly.

You've really got to love it. In an effort to stop people from buying their games used, EA just did the following 1) Used EA games will now be a much better bargain, making them more attractive, and 2) New EA games have $10 less resale value than they did before, but still cost $59.99.
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Posted: May 31st 2010 3:30AM coiled string said

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Excellent points. I agree that this will make buying second hand games cheaper and as an offline player this is only good news for myself. I normally save at least £10 to £20 on new games when I buy online but this could make games with the already opened box discount more appealing.

Also think that this could lead to a drop in sales,

1) because second hand prices will drop making second hand games more appealing to the large off line gaming communities.

2) because trade-ins will be priced lower there is less chance of financing the next purchase of a new game and as such a percentage of the price savvy gamer will not buy a game that looses it's trade in too fast (much like certain makes of car that devalue fast sell less).

I look forward to the cheaper world of pricing to come after the second hand market rocks the new market.
Much like how Governments subsidized used car trade ins (guaranteed additional £2000 any old car in the UK,) so that people could buy new cars to boost sales. This will have the opposite effect on new games.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 6:39AM djseifer said

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It might just be me, but the first thing I thought of when I saw FTCville was Functional Test Cases. I think I've been working in QA too long.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 3:23PM jrr said

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Definitely not just you, I actually thought the same thing.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 8:32AM coiled string said

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I appreciate the "pass on the discount" is a pipe dream and I suspect that publishers will eventually make online an extra fee even for new games to support the servers as they will claim.

This is a very thin and sharp edge to a nasty wedge.

I can buy new online here cheaper than second hand after a couple of months anyway. Heck, I can usually under cut used with online new games on day of release.

I also agree with your pulling support statement as EA already kill off its servers for not that old sports games now for a premium they will need to keep them active but I doubt that to.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 9:36AM Jenks said

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I'm glad the industry is moving in this direction.

You may think it's a slap in the face to people who buy used games, but it's only a counter to the idiots who walk into Gamestop and buy a $55 used copy of a game instead of supporting the game industry and buying the $60 new copy right next to it.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 10:19AM Bawabus said

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I understand your comment, because I don't buy used games for the same reason -- I want to support the developer, but geeeez. Don't rag on someone because they want to save a few bucks.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 10:49AM Captain Slender said

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It's unfair to assume 'buying used games' = Buying from Gamestop. How about eBay? How about gaming trading with friends? How about Gamefly? Also being an Australian, I import a lot of my games due to the fact I can get them about $30-40 less than retail (Gamestop, or Electronics Boutique as it is here, retails a game at roughly $100AU [About $115US]) - How can I be guaranteed the codes included in otherwise legitimate (and new) import copies will work under my Australian Xbox Live account, assuming they're Xbox codes.

There's many questions that are yet to be answered on how they'll handle the system obviously, but I'm still stuck on the fact I pay for Xbox Live on a yearly basis, which gives me access to online services.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:55AM Acosta02 said

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"Also being an Australian, I import a lot of my games due to the fact I can get them about $30-40 less than retail"

And you can't spend the $10 US to the actual developer?
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:59AM Acosta02 said

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That... wasn't even grammar. I apologize, but I think it's more or less clear that I was trying to say "GIVE the $10."
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Posted: May 30th 2010 1:49AM Jenks said

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Honestly if you're not buying the game new, and you're throwing a fit about spending $10 that would go to the developer, you might as well just pirate the game. It's not like buying used from Gamestop supports the industry any more than pirating does, it just supports Gamestop.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 9:52AM tumes said

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So with online pass will EA actually have non-laggy games? I mean Battlefield Bad Comapny 2 has been pretty laggy lately (last four weeks) and its not even six months old. I am just wondering when EA comes out with its next "Call of Duty Killer" it will actually try to have servers that can handle the load of a supposed "Call of Duty Killer." That might actually be where I would spend my money instead of trying to save your company from "evil used game sellers."
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:45PM The Aquacharger said

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considering BC2 had servers and MW2 didn't I really wouldn't be complaining about lag. A lot of them times when my friends play MW2 I see nothing but lag.
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Posted: May 30th 2010 12:00PM tumes said

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@Aquacharger

Can't help but notice that you have PSN instead of Xbox Live. I believe that would be more your problem.
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Posted: May 31st 2010 5:53PM The Aquacharger said

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You can look up my PSN ID and see I've not played it on PS3. I'm a PC gamer for FPS', most of my friends are 360 gamers. I've yet to see a non-laggy CoD:MW2 game, other then when they bring their consoles to school and use it's massive connection to play games online. Hell, when playing the Conduit I was getting lagless games.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 10:53AM (Unverified) said

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Honestly I feel like this is would be like buying a used book and having to pay for the last chapter. The problem is yes EA is going to get away with this people they win either way. If the customer buys a New game and then sells it then they make their money. After that GameStop was making all the money anyway so it's only profit after the second hand.

This fight will all come down to language of the cover. Like the article: if EA sells a game because it's online functionality and then removes that functionality then they will be in a worse funk than Sony over Other-OS. You just simply don't promise a customer something and then make them pay for it again.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:32AM Scuffles said

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Lol I would have said buying a used book and having to pay for vowels =P

Sure you can still read the "whl" book but its a lot nicer with the vowels.

Its sports games so who really cares ...... I mean their only one or two steps above Wii shovelware. High quality shovel ware mind you but the schedule seems to be something like ~$50 every year for a roster update and every two to three years a graphics engine overhaul.

Its also not going to be effecting their sales for probably the first month or so all that heavily, as the supply of used games simply isn't there. Its more down the line a few months when the supply is there and the new and used price have both dropped significantly that this really starts to kick in.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 12:19PM Acosta02 said

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"You just simply don't promise a customer something and then make them pay for it again."

You don't? Well, I guess it's a good thing that's not what EA is doing.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 10:59AM aristokrat said

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I'm confused as to how this could be a labelling / false advertisement problem for EA. If the box says multiplayer, and multiplayer is included with 1st retail purchase, then they have fulfilled their claims. They're duty is to the first customer only, since that is who their business transaction is with (basically), but no further consumer protection is afforded to ensuing purchasers.

If I resell a console, it's now MY responsibility to enumerate what's missing from the original package. A buyer could not go to bother MS if I didn't include a power cord, despite the original packaging stating that it would be included. GameStop would be the one who should get in trouble for not clearly delineating what is in the box vs what is printed on the box.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:00AM BrianH said

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I am ok with this for games like mass effect 2, and bad company 2, as those servers are going to be running a long long time, especially since people will still want to play mass effect 2 even after 3 is out.

but i am wary about it for the sports games, obviously not something i can support if EA is going to continue the yearly server kill for it's sports games, because with this system they have no excuse for keeping servers on, because everyone would have payed for the access.
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Posted: May 29th 2010 11:08AM wcarnation said

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I love buying a game used for $35, having to pay $20 to use it, then buying $40 of DLC I sure do.
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