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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:37PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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I agree with him about lag and to an extent rumble. I don't think input lag is a big deal so long as it feels natural. In terms of rumble, how would that even work? A vest? That's dumb. But, rumble can be cool with a traditional controller if used correctly. I don't have an issue with what he's saying here.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:41PM Wiizer said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Oh, Johnny...

This is supposed to be an immersive experience! The way that some games have utilized rumble is a testament to it being a tool of immersion.

I believe haptic feedback is a big deal; especially in racing games. Lag and the perception of lag?

Why are we predicting lag when we could just take out the prediction and have actual NON-LAGGINESS...
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:12PM Iroquois said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Well see if you just stick this here USB dongle in your pants...
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:34PM irotmx said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell Well, in the 90's there was a rumble vest. I had it and used it while playing Mortal Kombat 2 on the SNES and it did enhace my gaming experience.

Don't remember the name, tho, the cons were that you were "cabled" to the tv. LOL
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:53PM BlackedOut said

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Wiizer, you do pop up every now and again to fuel fires,
I think Kudo was wrong to downplay rumble, but I really don't think it matters with the Tech. I think its immersive enough with the amount of input required.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:50PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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@Wiizer

Well I really don't see how rumble would work with a camera as a controller. The lag thing just depends on how much you can notice it. If it's a larger than usual amount of delay then it'll fall short but if it's about the same as the wii or regular 360 game with the controller then not a big deal. There is always going to be input lag but how severe it is would be the qualifier. It should never be noticeable in any scenario.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:33PM aristokrat said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell
I'm kind of confused as to why rumble was even brought up in this context. Yeah it's nice when you're holding a controller, but that is simulated feedback for simulated feedforward (the controller in your hand). Once you start doing the actual motions of the gameplay, having your arm vibrate isn't going to make things feel more realistic, it's going to feel like you're getting electrocuted.

If they can't put better haptic feedback into controllers (like powered thumbsticks that stand back up when you hit a wall, for instance), there's no way they're going to get it into free space. You'd have to wear a full body suit, and that's just not going to work.

But honestly, rumble? What idiot asked that question?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:07PM McDuckScrooged said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell ..

Rumble has a lot of negatives like rsi , but its awesome for racing it gives you a feel of the road, like really holding onto a steering wheel, or driving over the cats eyes in between lanes or driving on gravel, genres like fps' it does nothing for them.. It depends on the type of game, it can be really immersive though.. Imagine playing a racing game standing up with your hands out in the middle of the air and getting absolutely no response back from your hands, it just doesn't make any sense to me..

As for lag again yes it is all about perception of lag, but again its down to genre, turn based it wont matter, slow paced it wont matter fast paced instant response (which are basically 95% of core games) ? I think after the initial wow factor of playing controller-less wears off it will become apparent, possibly painful and annoying..

If they had lag down to normal controller level they would be bragging about it and about how superior their controller method is, even if it was half way decent they again would be talking about how its near 1:1 etc.. Since they aren't It would indicate that releasing figures would be another nail in kinects coffin, remember this is Microsoft the king of marketing spin ..
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:23PM McDuckScrooged said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Sarcastic Gamer have done it again, Just watch this:

http://uk.video.ign.com/dor/articles/927759/sarcastic-gamer/videos/sarcasticgamer_kinect.html;jsessionid=3tps1m87hivw7?show=hi

ROFL , that is all.
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Posted: Jul 9th 2010 6:31AM Ashkental said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell

Wanna know how the bottom of an avatar shoes looks like?
BAM!
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:37PM Grey said

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I love rumble. That is all.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:48PM BigFat IsBack said

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@Grey

Yeah me too, i remember i use to hate playing games with a six axis and expecting a part in a game to have rumble and yet nothing would happen.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:59PM Grey said

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@BigFat is Back

Yeah I know what you mean. I remember being an early adopter of the PS1 and their controllers didn't have rumble or analog sticks when they first came out and it sucked. When I got the PS2 I realized how much I was missing out on. I didn't get my PS3 until late 2008 so thankfully the DS3 was already in place. I just need to have a controller in my hands when I play a game. I just can't imagine ever wanting to play a controller free game. :/
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:26PM Drakkenfyre said

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@Grey

That's one thing I really miss with Virtual Console games. The lack of rumble.

It's also no excuse. The GameCube controller can be used for every Virtual Console game, and has rumble. Why can't they add rumble to those games? Playing Star Fox 64, the very game which introduced rumble, without it, feels weird.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:52PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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@Grey

I could do without rumble. It's never been that big of a deal because most of the time it adds very little to the experience. In the handful of games it's been implemented correctly it adds something but I'd say 90% of the time it's like it's not even there.
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Posted: Jul 10th 2010 8:10PM Demaar said

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@Grey

Same. This kills my hopes of Kinect games using the 360 controller along side it. Sure if you stub your toe a rumble in the palm doesn't make sense. But how about pulling the trigger on a controller to fire a gun, and then feeling a rumble from that?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:38PM edgore said

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So, he's basically saying that with Kinect's full body vision of game control I am likely to actually stub my toe and I will feel the agonizing pain in my toe, not the palm of my hand?

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:39PM Pennegan said

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I turn rumble off in by default on my 360, saves battery life and it makes aiming easier while under fire in halo or MW2, so for me rumble isnt an issue.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:42PM Wiizer said

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@Pennegan

Too bad you don't have a choice in the matter...
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:18PM Picasotriggerfish said

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@(Unverified) Why would you be holding on to your Kinect expecting to feel it rumble?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 10:03PM That Burning Sensation said

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@Picasotriggerfish

Why would anyone using Kinect be holding it in the first place?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:40PM ben reebok said

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Dumb. I love rumble.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:40PM FernandoRocker said

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I think it's better to have it than not to have it.

Just let the developers decided to use it or not. Or better yet, just let the gamers decide with a simple turn on / off option.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:52PM BigFat IsBack said

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@FernandoRocker

Remember the old pager type buzz of thee N64?

lol i wish rumble in controllers was still that powerful . . .
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:46PM ansalon929 said

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@ansalon929

problem solved?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:42PM SteamPunkJin said

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Was anyone actually concerned about the lack of rumble in Kinect? It didn't even cross my mind seeing as it's, you know, a camera that sits several feet away.

I agree with his statements on Lag, it doesn't matter what the times actually are so long as you feel you're in control and your deaths/loses/whatevers don't feel like a TECHNICAL failure it's fine.

Posted: Jul 9th 2010 5:56PM xxxsam said

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@SteamPunkJin
Yes obviously his statement is absolutely correct - it doesn't matter what the actual number of milliseconds is so long as there is no perception of lag.

What's the most reliable way to ensure there's no perception of lag? NO LAG. Okay, that's ruled out, what are the other ways? Make everything sufficiently slow-paced that it doesn't matter. Okay, another option? Well... actually... that's pretty much it.

Lots of games will be perfectly fine with a bit of lag and game developers will obviously be using the thing so they'll know not to make games where you have to respond so quickly the system can't detect it. So it should be basically okay, but lag still limits what you can do.

(There's some lag in Nintendo's controller, too, for example; although most 'perceived' lag on Wii is from games that use gesture recognition, meaning they don't recognise the gesture until you've finished doing it.)
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:45PM Sora said

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How would rumble even work with Kinect?

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:52PM incendious said

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Eh! Wrong answer. Rumble is important. In fact, any sensory feedback enhances the gaming experience. That includes: audio, video AND touch. Smell-o-vision is the next sensory enhancement...it's the future of gaming. Once we get taste, we've got Star Trek tech! "Computer...tea, ear grey, hot."

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:33PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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@incendious

There was a tv that gave of smells for different things on screen in the olden days...............it didn't sell very well obviously, guess people don't really like having to smell the sewer levels they walk through in game.

Considering most games are brown and grey-ish, I hardly think they would smell all that great anyway :P
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:55PM liquidsoap89 said

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I like rumble... rumble most likely wont work with Kinect... no rumble is not the end of the world.

I played games just fine with a sixaxis, it was just BETTER when I got a dualshock. It wasn't worse without it.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:55PM Misanthropic Gamer said

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If your system has rumble: rumble rules!

If your system doesn't have rumble: rumble sucks!

It's pretty straightforward. If you're trying to sell a product, then it's perfect. If it doesn't have a certain feature, then hey, that feature sucked anyway.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 6:57PM Exick said

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Rumble in Kinect? Are we expecting some sort of add-on rumble pack a la the N64? And what would you do with it? Oh I know! Introducing the Microsoft Kinect UltraHD Jitter-Pak Suppository. Only $29.95.

I don't understand how this could be an issue for someone controlling a game with their body. If you want rumble, just shiver.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 8:36PM KinseySS said

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@Exick

I don't think anyone is arguing that Kinect should have rumble, anyone with half a brain would see it would be difficult to do without having to add another stupid peripheral.

I think people disagree with him saying rumble isn't important. Cause to me it's very important but I understand that Kinect doesnt have it
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 9:12PM Mmmmz said

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@Exick

In the 90s you had a rumble vest and rumble shorts for gaming (seriously).

So, you could always have it come back. Though, I don't know why anyone would want that.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:03PM Edge of Blade said

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Unfortunately, in this day and age where everyone is afraid of looking like a tool or a shill, the side that agrees with the corporate employee is automatically wrong...

But I can actually see how body tracking could be a better feedback mechanic than a lot of other things. Not "haptic" persay, but until companies start investing in vector feedback technology, the best we will have is rumbling controllers and jerking wheels.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:05PM F1 Basu Gasu Bakuhatsu said

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Why would you want a camera on top of your tv rumble? All it would do is make an irritating buzz sound whenever you get hit. And think of how bad it would get on an FPS.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:06PM LegendaryFluffy said

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Erm... if there was rumble in Kinect... would we have to hang on to the thing while we played?

Did anyone actually think Kinect would have rumble? Did they understand the concept?

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:12PM Teleto said

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Dissing rumble is a good way to end up dead in a back alley.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:13PM DjiegoMoz said

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I still don't see what's so special about rumble.
I was excited to try it out during my first time, but it got old pretty fast.
Not even games like shooters, which are made to take full potential of the rumble on a gameplay level made it catch my interest.
I'm not saying it sucks by any means, I just fail to see why all the praise for it.

Posted: Jul 9th 2010 7:48AM ExplicitFunction said

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@DjiegoMoz

I don't understand the big thing with rumble either. I liked rumble when it first came out, then never gave it much thought until i got a PS3 with a sixaxis, then i realised i didn't miss it. Now i often turn rumble off by choice.

Also, who actually thought that a camera 6 foot away from you was going to rumble?
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:17PM Funkmaster General said

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I honestly don't understand the concept of ruble in Kinect. If you're not directly interacting with the device, what does it matter if it rumbles? I'm not trying to seem trolly, I just honestly don't get it.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:19PM Alex R said

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"And even people playing games with a controller, there's always people doing this [mimes driving motion].""

Yep, I still do this. I did it today, on Burnout Paradise. I also sometimes jump back/move back when crashing into something when going like 100mph.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:29PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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@Alex R

Have you ever wanted to kiss the virtual girls or grab something you're not supposed to? Well yes or no, you can now :P
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:21PM LockeDaemonfire said

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Does anyone else read this as:

"We have a problem with lag. We may/may not be working on it, but for the time being, we're only releasing games that don't require much precision, aka casual games, so it won't be a problem for you. "

If that's true, props to them, I agree that lag is only a problem if it hampers gameplay, though I hope they can work it out with time.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:23PM berzirk said

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I'm really looking forward to Kinect releasing. In large part because I plan on purchasing it, but in even larger part, because I have a dream that someday Kudo will be completely irrelevant and I'll never need to hear from him again.

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:57PM BlackedOut said

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Once the third parties take over the helm, Kudo will be stuck behind a Kinect unit implementing the tech into dashboard apps all day long.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:25PM incredibilistic said

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So Sony says rumble is "last gen" and they're practically crucified for it but Microsoft says it and it's okay.

I guess the next successful title for MS Kinect will be "Jump Off A Cliff 'Cause I Told You To".

Posted: Jul 8th 2010 7:26PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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@incredibilistic

Thats because Kinect is a camera, sixaxis was not :P
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