Sony limiting use of 1080p 3D in PS3 games

by Kyle Orland on Jul 16th 2010 11:00AM

Sony's official guidelines for 3D gaming on PS3 limit the displayed image to a resolution of 720p, a Sony representative confirmed at the Develop conference this week.

Even games that run natively at 1080p resolution, like Super Stardust HD, are downscaled in 3D mode to two 720p images (one for each eye), Sony's Simon Benson explained during a demo of the technology at the conference. While the PS3 is capable of displaying a 1080p 3D image -- indeed, it will support 3D Blu-Ray movies at that resolution later this year -- Benson said upping the resolution comes at the expense of the silky-smooth 60 frames per second available at 720p (Blu-Ray movies run at 24 frames per second). Benson said that a "more cinematic game" might be well-suited for the lower frame rate and higher resolution, but that Sony's current guidelines for 3D games wouldn't allow for such a setting.

The effects of this policy are probably unnoticeable to most gamers. Benson said that, in 3D, even trained computer graphics artists could barely tell the difference between the resolutions. Still, for all you pixel counters out there who obsess over "full HD 1080p," here's another bit of technical trivia for you to argue over.

Tags: 1080p, 3D, 3D-gaming, 720p, Blu-ray, develop-2010, playstation, ps3, resolution, Simon-Benson

Reader Comments (55)

Let me know when we don't have to wear the glasses.

@Co

About 2 years away for the first consumer models if some of the TV representatives from CES2010 are to be believed.

As far as I can tell though the early commercial-only models are already available.

@Co Let me know when I don't have to replace my few year old TV.

@Co REAL 3D TVs without glasses aren't coming to consumer side aren't for at least 5-10 years! The technology doesn't even exist yet. What does exist is the type of tech the 3DS uses which only has "sweet spots", which is fine for handheld portable gaming but sucks when applies to a 50 inch TV. They had those type of TVs at CES this year and they suck for real world use. They have 9 viewing angles an if you aren't in those windows the TV is unviewable.

Sorry for the rant...I just hate when people make the correlation that just because 3DS can do it we should have it on TVs in no time...it's just not true. That tech has been around for a while, they used it some laptops in the past. And when the tech finally does come for no glasses needed...expect those TV to be EXTREMELY expensive compared to the couple hundred dollar premium added to TVs now for 3D.

@Co

Let me know when someone makes an original comment instead of this one I've heard a zillion times.

@Rocketboy uhhhh just a few years? my gaming TV is from 2007....I'm ready to replace it like last year.....

@Co

Great first-post attack derail! I'm sure you can repeat this on every 3D related post

@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi I'm not about to replace my giant TV just for another dimension. It's huge, hdtv, hdmi inputs, why would I buy a new one that would actually cost me the same as I paid for mine, just for 1 extra d?

@Rocketboy how big is it and how old? mine is only 46" and only has 2 HDMI ports, and is a measly 720p....its clearly outdated.....

@Rocketboy

WOW, expensive technology is made obsolete,but if you like it you don't have to upgrade?

Wonders never cease.

Just keep your TV. I'm buying a 2D one today, basically because 3D is driving the prices down.

Never buy version 1.0.

I've played the main three games (well two games and the Motorstorm demo) and I the 1080p vs 720p really doesn't spring to mind. What does come to mind is, "cool 3D" and "well, that was fun for about 5 minutes." I can say this as a 3D tv owner. It works really well for Motorstorm, but overall I didn't think it was the coolest thing in gaming.

There is no way that a person could endure long gaming runs without a headache with having to wear these glasses. I got this tv because I was in the market and said, "what the heck, I'll try it." But until they can get 3D without glasses (a la Nintendo 3DS) then it won't appeal to the mass market.

I think Motorstorm 3 will be the first real game to make 3D look appealing. I am curious how Killzone 3 will do in this as well as it would be the first non-driving game that they have presented.

Most games are only rendered in 720p on the PS3 anyway, so the issue over worrying about 1080p won't be an issue for the most part.

@Misfit Toy The only way I will watch 3D is from a Sony 4K projector. I've seen Wall-E and Despicable Me that way, and there was minimal eye-strain and it looked amazing. I watched Avatar on an IMAX screen, but I don't think their 3D tech for displaying is the same. My eyes hurt an hour in. I wonder if it's the material or tech that reduces that.

There's probably a medical explanation for it, but some people get different experiences when watching stereoscopic 3D. Some people get headaches or eye strain either straight away of after a certain amount of time(like you) and some people can watch entire 3D movies without eye strain or headaches or anything and really enjoy it(luckily I'm in that last category).

On topic: I could've sworn I read somewhere that because the PS3 only has a HDMI 1.3 port it physically can't handle 1080p3D because of the bandwidth required and that the highest resolution it could do for 3D was 1080i... I'm pretty sure it was an official Sony bit of info too...

@Misfit Toy

I have a 3D projector and I was able to handle Avatar the game fine for long periods. It's possible that a 88" screen requires less convergence on the eyes overall compared to a smaller 3D screen where your eyes work harder to converge to a smaller area.

Unfortunately, the PS3 doesn't work with any 3D projector on the market, including mine because they require HDMI 1.4 (despite not actually having a 1.4 port on the PS3. They just are able to pass the important part of the profile down the pipe ). My PJ was cheeeap though but looks great w/ nVidia 3D Vision. However, I will probably upgrade within a year or so.

I find 3D gaming quite immersive, though I can understand some people not getting into it. Buy hey, there's still movie snobs that prefer the Black & White medium over color. ;)

@Indefinite Implosion

"On topic: I could've sworn I read somewhere that because the PS3 only has a HDMI 1.3 port it physically can't handle 1080p3D because of the bandwidth required and that the highest resolution it could do for 3D was 1080i... I'm pretty sure it was an official Sony bit of info too..."

That was from some kids on a forum, and it spread like wildfire. It was extrapolated from some vague issue with the 1.4 standard, but it apparently can be managed somehow with PS3s.

The PS3 will do 3D Blu-ray movies in 1080p. Games are a different matter, but I don't see this as a big deal.

So who's going to buy a 3D television? I'm asking you, my fellow Joystiq commenters? (word!?) How many of you guys are going to trade in your HDTVs for this?

I'm not...

@DeeZeee

If and when the no-glasses 3DTVs get to an affordable price (I'd settle for $600-700 for a 32 inch), then I may consider it.

I bought my 26 inch 720p Samsung TV in 2008 ($600) and I think by 2012-2013 I'll be ready for a new 3D console and a 3DTV without glasses.

@DeeZeee
OMG DOOD 1080 P 60 FPS 3D WIFI 240 HZ 10000000000:1 CONTRAST RATIO

I don't think anyone even understands all this nonsense.

Please developers, just make your games fun and cut all the other crap

I'll buy a 3D television when there is actual 3D content available and I don't have to buy glasses.

I don't watch television, save for PBS on occasion, so that kind of content isn't going to reel me in. And I get off on old movies, and being vehemently opposed to 3D conversions of 2D films, I'm not going to care about watching 3D films at home until there are great deal of them actually filmed in 3D and on 3D Blu-ray. 3D gaming is something I'll worry about next generation.

As for glasses, I watch movies and play games in packs. My apartment is filled on tuesday nights and weekends and I can't afford to buy glasses for the 10+ people showing up.

@sonicspike41

Last year I got my 40" Samsung LCD for $300. The key is to buy used cause buying new is just way too expensive, or otherwise buying from Woot where they sell refurbed TVs. Craigslist is the way to go if you live in a city that uses it actively.

@DeeZeee

i have an older 3d tv model from mitsubishi, all i need to use 3D is buy the starter kit for $400 which comes with the adapter and two glasses. I find it a little too expensive so I'm waiting for a price drop of some sorts.

@Raiki

SATX, so craigslist is no problem. I know buying new comes with a premium cost, but I still prefer it for the perceived reliability and actual warranty. My current TV stopped working after 7-8 months and I had to send it back for repairs (only paid $40 for shipping to them).

I think we can both agree that when buying new the best thing is to wait for Black Friday deals or shop around online. I got mine for an even $600 when Best Buy had it for $700+tax.

@DeeZeee

I will. I currently have an older method 3D projector and the stuff I can play is very impressive. (Nvidia 3D Vision games, 1080p 3D videos and trailers). It doubles as a decent movie projector too, 3D was just a bonus as it's a DLP PJ and DLP just happens to work great with 3D. It is holding me over until they come out with cheaper HDMI 1.4 3D projectors.

@DeeZeee Good answers! I want one, but only when we can lose the glasses and the price comes down. I think that'll be the new generation of consoles... So PS4 and Xbox 720.

@DeeZeee

I probably will, once I can get it for a good price. I'm a HUGE fan of Wipeout, so being able to play that in 3D is a big draw for me.

@WiredKnight

Oh also, I don't really care either way about the glasses. I remember going to see Beowulf in 3D and it looked great and I didn't even notice them after a little while.

"Benson said that, in 3D, even trained computer graphics artists could barely tell the difference between the resolutions."

Wow - just like in 2D!

@creid8
I disagree.. 720p is far less clear than 1080p. I'm a PC gamer so I'm used to using different resolutions, but I'm sure computer artists spend far more time than me dealing with image quality on crazy screens. Remember that this is a Sony PR man trying to lessen the blow of a defeat.

@creid8

I don't know, I can easily tell the difference between good 720p and good 480p. (If the video quality is bad/average 480p upscaled to 720p then it usually looks the same at each resolution, sometimes worse in 720p with the extra pixels/blocks).

A friend had his 720p tv connected to his xbox but set up so it played games in 480p and when hanging out one day I immediately knew something was off. After I set it to 720p even he noticed the change right away (and that was in Left 4 Dead).

@sonicspike41

The game looked off because the resolution at 480p was being stretched to 720 pixels. It usually results in a blurry or washed out image. On LCD's, games running below the monitors' native resolution are very noticeable unless it's being unscaled (like 720p to 1080p).

@DangerMouse001

I suppose another good example would be when I switched from a 19 inch CRT TV (from the late 90s I think) to my current 26 inch 720p TV.

I had been playing Halo 3 in 4:3 on the old one for about a month or so before I got the new one, and I did notice a difference (and not just because of the size or ratio difference). Things were easier to see, the details were better, and it was just overall better. Would playing the game in 480i make or break it for me? Of course not, but if given the chance I'll gladly take 720p over 480i/p every time.

There's no such thing as "full HD".

@(Unverified) Yes there is! It's called real life...

@DeeZeee

Real world doesn't look as good as some games do though.

@(Unverified)
Tsk tsk. It's called "extreme HD" Computers can handle it, consoles can't. There are some cards that can handle passed 1080 resolution. And there are some that even do extreme widescreen. If you have a couple of monitors, you can see a wider section of the game worlds.

@(Unverified) well the human eye can't detect above 1080 anyways. but ya, full hd can be something like 10000000 x 10000000 but we'll never see it.

@(Unverified)

That kind of reminds me of the statement "3D is a gimmick!"... considering in real life, we have two eyes for something. Nature is a gimmick.

@Themoreyouknow

Um, LOTS of cards can handle over 1080p. One of the joys of PC gaming is not being restricted to conventional TV standards. My current monitor does 2048x1152. When you're talking about resolution, it's as much a limitation of the monitor as it is of the graphics card.

True, for some of the giant monitors out there that do crazy high resolutions you do need some more power behind them, but there's no reason that most decent cards can't run a bit higher than 1080. It's just that with the whole "Full HD" craze monitor manufacturers are sticking to the 1080 standard, because most people who don't really know what they're looking for think that's what they want.

"well the human eye can't detect above 1080 anyways."
Above a certain DPI, sure. But there is a difference between 1080p on a 19" monitor (you can still count the pixels!) and on a big-ass TV screen. Factor in your distance from the screen and you can't really put a specific number on it.

Damn you Sony's marketing.

@(Unverified) Unfortunately, there's very few monitors that go above 1080p - and all of them are both huge and overpriced. 1080p is fine for games - as long as they support anti-aliasing (glaring at you here Unreal Engine3) - but in anything over a 21" screen (I use a 23") it is - to my mind - lower than what I'd really like for user interface. I hate this "full HD" nonsense because it seems to have discouraged a push for higher resolution screens - even for non-gaming apps, where they are rather needed.

"some" cards? Try "most" cards, from YEARS ago. Remember, we on the PC side of things are always years ahead of you console luddites. Always. Ooooh, 720 games! Waitshit, remember when that was an impressive resolution in the 90s? No, I guess you wouldn't. ;) 1080 was old hat and primitive for us, too, by the time you finally got it. 1600x1200 has been pretty damned "acceptable" gaming resolution for years, for instance.

And so it continues.

@Miketor

Get used to it.

"Benson said upping the resolution comes at the expense of the silky-smooth 60 frames per second available at 720p (Blu-Ray movies run at 24 frames per second)."

You are comparing video playback to rendering an actual game. Blu-ray doesn't run in 1080p 3D at 24fps because it can't do any better, it does so because the film was shot that way....not rendered in real-time like a video game. There is no correlation between the two at all. Sorry... little pet peeve there...

Hardly any games are in 1080p anyway. I have a 3D TV myself, but haven't tried out the glasses yet. Is the full Motorstorm Pacific Rift in 3D, or just the demo?

@WINterfang
so? If your TV is only 720p, I highly doubt it's 3D capable.

At E3 Sony said that Gran Turismo 5 will be playable at 1080p in 3D:

http://www.pushsquare.com/15671/e3-2010-wait-what-gran-turismo-5s-3d-mode-is-1080p-too/

@hkhawkins

They'll probably make exceptions for some games like GT5, or perhaps GT5 has been altered since that announcement.

I'd pay $100-200 extra for a 3D TV. It's just different firmware anyway, especially in the case of plasmas.

@Raffi256

Yes and no. Some TVs physically cannot input/output 120hz due to hardware limitations. But, really within a year all TVs will be capable. You are right that it's actually a minor thing. The screen just has to have a high refresh rate like 120hz and have the bandwidth to input/output that signal. It won't be long until there's no price difference between 3D capable and not (well.. rather that there just won't be any non-3D TVs), sans super cheap off-brand TVs you will find at Big Lots that are actually old designs but still being sold.

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Super Stardust HD

Sony limiting use of 1080p 3D in PS3 games

Reader Comments (55)

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:02AM Co said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:17AM sonicspike41 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:29AM Rocketboy said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:50AM Inspace2020 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:14PM Chibi Chaingun said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:59PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 1:23PM giesen said

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Posted: Jul 16th 2010 2:12PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 2:32PM Dustin F said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:07AM Misfit Toy said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:21AM mykalt45 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:58AM Indefinite Implosion said

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Posted: Jul 19th 2010 2:08AM Dustin F said

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Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:21AM sonicspike41 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:26AM Themoreyouknow said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:55AM Dance Love Pop said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:00PM Raiki said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:14PM s ls said

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Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:23PM Chibi Chaingun said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:58PM DeeZeee said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 1:42PM WiredKnight said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 1:48PM WiredKnight said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:11AM creid8 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:21AM Haggard said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:24AM sonicspike41 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:51AM DangerMouse001 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:10PM sonicspike41 said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:12AM Unvrfd said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:13AM DeeZeee said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:25AM TaintedKane said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 11:31AM Themoreyouknow said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 12:38PM YakuzaElite said

Posted: Jul 16th 2010 1:14PM Chibi Chaingun said

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