Analysts were generally unimpressed with the $150 price tag put on the Kinect hardware -- the consensus has been that Microsoft set the price too high and sales will suffer as a result. But Microsoft group marketing manager Brett Siddons disagrees. Speaking at an Amazon event in the UK, he said that once you "do the maths," Kinect is "very competitively priced."
Siddons is talking about UK prices, but his argument works the same for the American retail listings. The Kinect pack comes with support for two players (six non-active) and the Kinect Adventures game, with no other accessories needed. That's compared to PlayStation Move, which gives you the main controller, a camera, and Sports Champions for $100. But Siddons says the "Navigation controller" will cost $30 more, and expanding to full controls for two players actually makes things more expensive than Kinect. Even two Wii remotes and Nunchucks will run you $140, and that's without Motion Plus add-ons. When you look at it that way, you can see why Microsoft believes Kinect is priced competitively.
Of course, Siddons is obviously speaking from Microsoft's perspective -- you don't necessarily need the Navigation controller (you can replace it with a Dual Shock, which most people already have), or two full players' worth of controls anyway. Still, even if that $150 buys an experience similar to what's on other consoles, there's still a question of whether you'll want to write that big check in the first place.
Reader Comments (147)
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:07PM BlackedOut said
Uhoh.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:53PM Dustin F said
@BlackedOut
Yeah, uh oh.
You can't count on the market to do the math the way MS wants them to. This just doesn't seem like that much stuff for the money. A lot of customers don't intend to play with a room full of people on games that haven't been announced yet to make that very fun.
MS should simply cut the damn price down. I can play Mon0poly with 12 players if I want, but it's not worth any more than 4 player monopoly... I know it, and Milton Bradley knows it. This is simply an unreasonable argument.
Reply
Yeah, uh oh.
You can't count on the market to do the math the way MS wants them to. This just doesn't seem like that much stuff for the money. A lot of customers don't intend to play with a room full of people on games that haven't been announced yet to make that very fun.
MS should simply cut the damn price down. I can play Mon0poly with 12 players if I want, but it's not worth any more than 4 player monopoly... I know it, and Milton Bradley knows it. This is simply an unreasonable argument.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:54PM BlackedOut said
I agree whole-heartedly with that statement.
I'm not paying £130 to be lazy on the dashboard.
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I'm not paying £130 to be lazy on the dashboard.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:18PM ArcaneAmoeba said
@BlackedOut
Yeah, uh oh. There's no way that Kinect will succeed without some killer games or lower pricing. Expect launch day buys to be very low on this one. Perhaps they'll pick up later if developers start making good games that support Kinect, but that seems very unlikely considering what the community's reaction has been thus far.
Too bad, I was actually looking forward to this.
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Yeah, uh oh. There's no way that Kinect will succeed without some killer games or lower pricing. Expect launch day buys to be very low on this one. Perhaps they'll pick up later if developers start making good games that support Kinect, but that seems very unlikely considering what the community's reaction has been thus far.
Too bad, I was actually looking forward to this.
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 12:00AM Dustin F said
@ArcaneAmoeba
It's hard to design good interfaces for a camera game. Sounds like it would be simple, but it's actually hard.
And while Move can get some upgrades ports and advanced versions of Wii proven ideas, Knietch will simply be more work to make winning games. And with initial sales slumping, devs won't push the games to make Kinietch a success.
And what's really troubling is that MS knows this. They know that if Kintehz is a success, it would be easy to suck up the initial losses and let it scale out at $50 a pop. That would lead to a flood of buyers, better games, more buyers, more games, etc.
They don't see that happening, so the high price is an admission they are afraid of taking a bath like they did with Kin.
And Kinietch could be amazing if it gets the support.
Reply
It's hard to design good interfaces for a camera game. Sounds like it would be simple, but it's actually hard.
And while Move can get some upgrades ports and advanced versions of Wii proven ideas, Knietch will simply be more work to make winning games. And with initial sales slumping, devs won't push the games to make Kinietch a success.
And what's really troubling is that MS knows this. They know that if Kintehz is a success, it would be easy to suck up the initial losses and let it scale out at $50 a pop. That would lead to a flood of buyers, better games, more buyers, more games, etc.
They don't see that happening, so the high price is an admission they are afraid of taking a bath like they did with Kin.
And Kinietch could be amazing if it gets the support.
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 8:17AM xreadmore said
@Dustin F
The argument is even worse because they love to compare Kinect with Move when it comes to price, but love to separate themselves (controller free!!!) when it comes to the tech.
The problem MS have is that the games for Move will be much different then the Kinect ones. So the "experiences" (I hate when they use that word) are NOT comparable. I can't think of any game that could function well by me slowly waving an arm vs an a motion controller with buttons.
Unless MS comes out with some sort of one-handed Kinect controller buddy, then they can not compare these two motion controllers.
Reply
The argument is even worse because they love to compare Kinect with Move when it comes to price, but love to separate themselves (controller free!!!) when it comes to the tech.
The problem MS have is that the games for Move will be much different then the Kinect ones. So the "experiences" (I hate when they use that word) are NOT comparable. I can't think of any game that could function well by me slowly waving an arm vs an a motion controller with buttons.
Unless MS comes out with some sort of one-handed Kinect controller buddy, then they can not compare these two motion controllers.
Posted: Jul 31st 2010 4:10PM Extinction said
@BlackedOut Problem. I'm only buying Move for one player, and the navcon isnt required. I also dont need another camera, thus the cost for Move for me is $50. For 2 players it'd be $100
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Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:07PM Daman09 said
Wait, the Kinnect only works with 2 people. What the hell?! I didn't know that.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:09PM TheMainProtagonist said
@Daman09
Yeah, it's pretty stupid.
Not interested in Kinect at all. (Move either)
Reply
Yeah, it's pretty stupid.
Not interested in Kinect at all. (Move either)
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:26PM Themoreyouknow said
@Daman09
Old news. It can only recognize 2 people at one time. Or maybe something like 2 standing people.
Anyway, I don't have a 2nd player to play with......so does that mean I only have to pay $75?
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Old news. It can only recognize 2 people at one time. Or maybe something like 2 standing people.
Anyway, I don't have a 2nd player to play with......so does that mean I only have to pay $75?
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 6:07AM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said
@logicplay Why? They'll probably give rave reviews simply because its MS, heck this past podcast they admitted they liked MS better. Also $15 a good deal for Limbo? Yeah that gave away that they no longer consider the consumer as their main focus, sadly they are no longer the guys that called out MS on the RROD debacle.
Reply
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 7:40AM BananaBoat said
Limbo is worth every cent, even if it is short. I'd rather pay fifteen dollars for that level of quality than five for any of the throwaway games on either XBLA or PSN (or Wiiware for that matter)
Having said that, I think both Kinect and Move should have been priced a little more competitively. The good thing is that if they don't sell at their current prices, they can always come down in a hurry.
Reply
Having said that, I think both Kinect and Move should have been priced a little more competitively. The good thing is that if they don't sell at their current prices, they can always come down in a hurry.
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 12:40PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said
@BananaBoat No Limbo is not worth $15 since I finished it in one sitting just shy of 3 hours at my brothers house. It looks cool, so what is that worth the premium there's no multiplayer, no witty banter, not a memorable protagonist. Tell me again why this is worth $15 when I can get some of what I've state and 7hrs more play time with Death Spank?
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Posted: Jul 29th 2010 3:39PM BananaBoat said
Length does not equal value in my opinion. Is God of War III not worth the same as Red Dead Redemption just because it is shorter? That argument may work when you are comparing apples to apples (games within the same genre) but for games in entirely different genre's, it doesn't work at all.
Fifteen dollars for three hours equates to five dollars an hour. God of War III took me roughly eight hours. At sixty dollars, that is 7.5 dollars an hour. Doing the (pointless) math that way, Limbo is a better value. In the same vein, I've played maybe 100 hours of Angry Birds on my iPhone, and I paid 99 cents for it. That is about a cent per hour of enjoyment. By the logic of "time = value", nothing can really compare, though as I've said, I think that logic is bunk unless the comparison is between two similar games in the same genre. Since I can't think of anything remotely similar to Limbo (except the far shorter flash game "Coma"), I'd say they can set the price just about anywhere they want. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, they'll lower the price.
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Fifteen dollars for three hours equates to five dollars an hour. God of War III took me roughly eight hours. At sixty dollars, that is 7.5 dollars an hour. Doing the (pointless) math that way, Limbo is a better value. In the same vein, I've played maybe 100 hours of Angry Birds on my iPhone, and I paid 99 cents for it. That is about a cent per hour of enjoyment. By the logic of "time = value", nothing can really compare, though as I've said, I think that logic is bunk unless the comparison is between two similar games in the same genre. Since I can't think of anything remotely similar to Limbo (except the far shorter flash game "Coma"), I'd say they can set the price just about anywhere they want. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, they'll lower the price.
Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:54AM PurpleFries said
@The angry pro consumer gaming ga
I finished deathspank in just under 6 hours on my first playthrough, getting 100% completion.
Reply
I finished deathspank in just under 6 hours on my first playthrough, getting 100% completion.
Posted: Aug 2nd 2010 10:54PM RiseFromYourGrave said
@BananaBoat
Hey now, I had a ton of fun playing Noby Noby Boy, and After Burner Climax (It was on sale :D) and Peggle (Got Peggle Nights for free! w00t!).
None of those cost me $15, and they are more entertaining than a lot of my physical titles (I hated GoW3, btw, it was a big let down, i didn't want a movie, i wanted a game).
On the other hand, i feel ripped off by braid, even though i got it half off. After Burner, despite being only 10-15 minutes kicks ASS! And both Peggle and Noby Noby Boy are endless! So those $5 games are pretty sweet....(Peggle was $10, but it's double awesome).
Still, you're right about the time thing. For me, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden are a hell of a lot more fun than GTA IV, but thats just me.
Reply
Hey now, I had a ton of fun playing Noby Noby Boy, and After Burner Climax (It was on sale :D) and Peggle (Got Peggle Nights for free! w00t!).
None of those cost me $15, and they are more entertaining than a lot of my physical titles (I hated GoW3, btw, it was a big let down, i didn't want a movie, i wanted a game).
On the other hand, i feel ripped off by braid, even though i got it half off. After Burner, despite being only 10-15 minutes kicks ASS! And both Peggle and Noby Noby Boy are endless! So those $5 games are pretty sweet....(Peggle was $10, but it's double awesome).
Still, you're right about the time thing. For me, Bayonetta and Ninja Gaiden are a hell of a lot more fun than GTA IV, but thats just me.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:09PM RadioactiveQube said
Although I agree that PS Move costs more, the whole point here is that it is advertised as $50 ($99) for a bundle and Kinect is advertised as $150
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:06PM 7r1ck13 said
@RadioactiveQube
Well its close if you get all THREE items you need for 1 person for move.. Everyone seems to be forgetting about the PlayStation EYE that is needed also.. How else is the PS3 supposed to see your flashy ball..
Here would be a similar bundle minus the NAV controller.
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product_ID=78137
So as it all adds up.
NAV $30 + PS EYE $40 + Motion Controller $50 = $120..
add in the "BIG" game thats coming out next to it $ 60..
Wow.. We are now up to $180...
Reply
Well its close if you get all THREE items you need for 1 person for move.. Everyone seems to be forgetting about the PlayStation EYE that is needed also.. How else is the PS3 supposed to see your flashy ball..
Here would be a similar bundle minus the NAV controller.
http://www.gamestop.com/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?Product_ID=78137
So as it all adds up.
NAV $30 + PS EYE $40 + Motion Controller $50 = $120..
add in the "BIG" game thats coming out next to it $ 60..
Wow.. We are now up to $180...
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:12PM RadioactiveQube said
@7r1ck13
OR you could just get the bundle which includes the PSEYE, MOVE, and a GAME for $99 and use your Dualshock as a Nav.
Reply
OR you could just get the bundle which includes the PSEYE, MOVE, and a GAME for $99 and use your Dualshock as a Nav.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:17PM SheppyReturns said
@RadioactiveQube
Not really. You see, if you need the PSEye, you can buy the $100 bundle which gives you the Move, Sports Champions, PSEye, and a demo disk. As for the "Big games," please keep in mind the Move titles are all priced at $40, not $60. And outside of that, do you really think Fable 3 comes in a purple case for $50?
The other thing to keep in mind is the two technologies are not comparable despite attempts to the contrary. For example, what is the Kinect equivelant of the Nav controller? Or, for that matter, how will Kinect differentiate between the different button presses.
In summation, it's a silly argument no matter who makes it and spreading FUD doesn't help your cause.
Reply
Not really. You see, if you need the PSEye, you can buy the $100 bundle which gives you the Move, Sports Champions, PSEye, and a demo disk. As for the "Big games," please keep in mind the Move titles are all priced at $40, not $60. And outside of that, do you really think Fable 3 comes in a purple case for $50?
The other thing to keep in mind is the two technologies are not comparable despite attempts to the contrary. For example, what is the Kinect equivelant of the Nav controller? Or, for that matter, how will Kinect differentiate between the different button presses.
In summation, it's a silly argument no matter who makes it and spreading FUD doesn't help your cause.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:58PM RadioactiveQube said
@SheppyReturns
wow, butthurt much? i said **multiplayer**
and i was commenting on how it's advertised.
Reply
wow, butthurt much? i said **multiplayer**
and i was commenting on how it's advertised.
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 1:08AM RadioactiveQube said
@SheppyReturns
i apologize for the misunderstanding.
Reply
i apologize for the misunderstanding.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:10PM The Harbinger of Pie said
The smart middle class folk, however, will learn/know that they can use their regular Playstation Controllers as a navigation controller. So for the same price (and assuming you've already 3 regular controllers), you can have 3 players with motion controllers on the Playstation and only 2 on the Xbox.
I know that analysts know this, they just try to deny the fact.
I know that analysts know this, they just try to deny the fact.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:13PM BigFat IsBack said
@The Harbinger of Pie
just like middle class knew about gamecube controllers working with the VC on the wii right . . . . right?
Reply
just like middle class knew about gamecube controllers working with the VC on the wii right . . . . right?
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:16PM BlackedOut said
Not trying to defend Kinect, so you're telling me, If I wanted to play SOCOM for example, I'd grip my dualshock controller in one hand while I use a move in the other. That makes no sense whatsoever, if this was a viable method of control there would be no Move navigation controller.
That being said it doesn't make your statement any less true. Just less realistic.
Reply
That being said it doesn't make your statement any less true. Just less realistic.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:20PM big0jeff said
@The Harbinger of Pie
I thought I was the only one realized this! So many people keep saying that you have to buy the nav controller when in reality it's not necessary, at least as of yet.
I think this also explains the difference in mindset between Microsoft and Sony when it comes to motion controls. Sony seems to be targeting the people who own a PS3 already while Microsoft is targeting people who dont own a 360. If you get either systems just for motion controls then the Move can possibly cost more than the Kinect but if you have the systems already and two controls then Kinect cost more.
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I thought I was the only one realized this! So many people keep saying that you have to buy the nav controller when in reality it's not necessary, at least as of yet.
I think this also explains the difference in mindset between Microsoft and Sony when it comes to motion controls. Sony seems to be targeting the people who own a PS3 already while Microsoft is targeting people who dont own a 360. If you get either systems just for motion controls then the Move can possibly cost more than the Kinect but if you have the systems already and two controls then Kinect cost more.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:26PM The Harbinger of Pie said
@BigFat IsBack
Ah, but that is why I said the SMART middle class. I'm pretty sure it was in the box or the manual of the Wii, or the box or manual of a game that supported it. Being smart helps a lot in life.
@BlackedOut
Yes that is what I'm saying. Search for the RE5 demonstration of the Move, that is what the people are doing. The Navi Controller is just for a more comfortable way of playing with the Move.
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Ah, but that is why I said the SMART middle class. I'm pretty sure it was in the box or the manual of the Wii, or the box or manual of a game that supported it. Being smart helps a lot in life.
@BlackedOut
Yes that is what I'm saying. Search for the RE5 demonstration of the Move, that is what the people are doing. The Navi Controller is just for a more comfortable way of playing with the Move.
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:35PM BlackedOut said
@The Harbinger of Pie
Had a look man, can't find any videos on it from a quick search on Youtube and Google. Could you link it to me?
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Had a look man, can't find any videos on it from a quick search on Youtube and Google. Could you link it to me?
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:55PM The Harbinger of Pie said
@BlackedOut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzW07uTN1cE
The demo starts around 2:40, you catch a glimpse of the guy doing the demo every now and then, and you can see the guy holding a regular Dualshock.
Also.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/16/move-navigation-controller-can-be-replaced-by-dualshock/
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzW07uTN1cE
The demo starts around 2:40, you catch a glimpse of the guy doing the demo every now and then, and you can see the guy holding a regular Dualshock.
Also.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/16/move-navigation-controller-can-be-replaced-by-dualshock/
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 11:17PM BlackedOut said
@The Harbinger of Pie
Thanks for that, looks like the Nav controller is really optional, while it may be awkward to use a dualshock (Joystiq's words) its 30 dollars that you wont have to pay if you don't want to.
Reply
Thanks for that, looks like the Nav controller is really optional, while it may be awkward to use a dualshock (Joystiq's words) its 30 dollars that you wont have to pay if you don't want to.
Posted: Jul 29th 2010 8:47AM jynxycat said
@logicplay; I could also walk around with my cardboard under my feet instead of shoes for two hours too. Who needs to buy shoes?!
I mean, it's annoying, but it's an option.
The DS3's are weighted on both sides, I'd imagine holding one side in just one hand would semi-annoying after awhile, or if your hand lost it's grip/positioning. Maybe if you had it rest on your lap the whole time.
/shrug
Reply
I mean, it's annoying, but it's an option.
The DS3's are weighted on both sides, I'd imagine holding one side in just one hand would semi-annoying after awhile, or if your hand lost it's grip/positioning. Maybe if you had it rest on your lap the whole time.
/shrug
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:12PM Halwende said
I was hoping the "price it low and get it into homes" school of thought would become victorious but alas... still, I think it will do quite well initially. There will certainly be demand for Dance Central and the Ubisoft fitness game at launch, regardless of the price point...
Posted: Jul 28th 2010 10:39PM fortunzfavor said
@Halwende That model will win out, after they've extorted a sucker fee from the early adopters. If there aren't any early adopters, it will probably win out even earlier.
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