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Reader Comments (49)

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:45AM rapidix said

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so 6,000 retired nfl players ran out of money, huh?

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:49AM Che J P said

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@rapidix

Apparently. They should actually be glad someone remembered them. Honestly if it was me I would be more upset that they DIDN'T include my name and jersey. But everyone wants money. If they win the case....

The consequences will NEVER be the same.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:50AM theangryheretic said

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@rapidix Depending on how long ago these players were in the leage, it is possible. The salaries of current NFL players is relatively new. Players from back in the day did not make the same kind of money.

Plus, if EA is profiting from their likeness, why should they not get a cut of that money, since they are the ones who did the work on the field.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:19PM Deschain said

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@theangryheretic

The idea that they are "profiting from there likeness" is grossly overstated. No one buys madden to play as the retired legends.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 8:20PM theangryheretic said

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@Deschain Weather or not you play as those legends is not the issue. Their likeness was used without their permission. That is enough to warrant taking them to court. And I hope they win.

Thinks would have been easier had EA just did things the right way. And if they say they did this to make the game cheaper....isn't that the point of the adds in Maddend?
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Posted: Aug 5th 2010 12:56AM MDizzy said

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@theangryheretic If that's successful, I wonder what the implications would be for College Athletes.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:46AM Wisco said

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The Green and Gold is the only way to remember #4....

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:10PM Co said

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@Wisco

Go Cowboys!!
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:17PM Wisco said

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@Co
Ha ha,
Bring it on this year.

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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:47AM SecrtAgentMan said

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Stick it to the man

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:48AM Punkrawk Bbob said

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Sounds just to me. You don't hold the right to use someone's everything just because you wanna. You should have to pay them, or at least secure their permission.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:48AM DWilson8504 said

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gees, just be happy you were big enough to be included in the game in the first place and get over it cry babies

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:51AM theangryheretic said

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@DWilson8504 So you would be ok with your likeness and other info being used, money earned from that, and you not getting paid?
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:01PM DWilson8504 said

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@theangryheretic I figured someone would reply this, it's just like in the WWE games, THQ/Yukes put in parts in their create mode so I can create say...Goldberg. So I create Goldberg and play with him online...is THQ/Yukes supposed to pay Goldberg because their create mode can be used to create him? No. This is a LITTLE different because they actually put them in the game but at the same time it's the the same damn thing. I mean they didn't use their names or numbers so all they had to legally do is put something in the credits or terms of agreement or whatever saying any likenesses or images that resemble real people are merely conincidence and they'd be clear of any legal action against them. It's the player that changes the number and name therefore making it the same as creating a wrestler in the WWE games or any game with a create a character mode for that matter.

The other reason I feel this way is because they are doing this 2 years after the game's release...what took them so long? Why did they take so long to decide on this? It just seems like a ploy to make money if you ask me.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:23PM Soniquev8 said

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@theangryheretic An understandable point. But then you have to ponder over how far away do those statistics have to be before they become not 'you.'

For an example, lets say that I am number 3, I play for team 3, I have 3 touchdowns this season, and I have 3 field goals (in reality). Now, would I own the rights over a virtual character who has the statistics of 4/3/3/3 (in order)? What about 4/5/3/3? What about 3/3/4/4? 3/2/3/4? Obviously these aren't real statistics, but hopefully you're getting my point.

I think EA blows too, but there has to be some point where they can mimic what they don't own the rights to. Just like ALL industries are capable of doing.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:46PM ytilanigiroon said

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@DWilson8504

"No. This is a LITTLE different because they actually put them in the game but at the same time it's the the same damn thing."

First of all, if it's different it's not the same thing. I know I'm being pedantic, but the law is pedantic. What you provide as an example does not apply to this situation; THQ are not profiting by your created character, and neither are you. Further, THQ only provided - essentially - the paint and brushes, whereas EA are providing "historic teams" which have players that are overtly modeled to resemble and play like the person they represent.

Essentially - the way I see it anyway - EA figured that if they remove the names and give the players similar but different numbers that they could skirt having to pay the players on the "historic teams" the royalties I believe they are owed.

We'll see how it plays out in court, obviously.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 8:23PM theangryheretic said

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@DWilson8504 The thing that separates this from your WWE analogy is that the stats of the players line up with the stats of the actual retired NFL players. Had the stats been different enough, this would be a non issue.

Being able to make Bill Goldberg and there being a Bill Goldberg already in the game, but with a different hair color and a different name are two different issues.
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Posted: Aug 4th 2010 2:11AM theangryheretic said

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@Soniquev8 It's not just the stats. It's the stats plus the combination of the team plus the year. I don't know how much of a football fan you are, but if you were to play as the 85 Bears, and one of your defensive line men is 6'2'' about 380 lbs, in his rookie year, rushed for 2 touchdowns and cought a pass for 1 touchdown, there is only one player with those stats. William The Refrigerator Perry.

But what EA is doing is leaving the stats, height, and weight the same, but simply changing the number. Anyone who is a fan of football as much as I am, or just the 85 Bears will know that is The Fridge as soon as they see him. That is where the problem is.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:57AM vidguy said

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This is actually an interesting case. It was filed in California, where the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals provides some strong precedent for recognizing publicity rights in odd characteristics.

In 1988, the 9th Circuit recognized a right to prevent an imitation of Bette Midler's voice in a Ford commercial, saying that the imitation for a commercial purpose was depriving her of commercial value. In 1992, the court allowed Vanna White a right of publicity against a robot wearing a blond wig and standing next to a Wheel-of-Fortune-esque board, saying it caused confusion as to product endorsement.

I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that EA was intending to give its customers the benefit of playing as retired players without paying those players for their virtual appearances. As bad as it sounds, the players are likely to win this one.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:57AM butaneko said

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Didn't this already happen?

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 11:58AM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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The sooner EA's exclusivity period is over the better....seems like its been more trouble than its worth.....when does it expire? 2015 or 2013? one is the NFL contract the other is for ESPN but I forget which is which

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:03PM Xoonaka said

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@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi

...last time it was going to run out, they just extended it. Don't get your hopes up.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:09PM Dance Love Pop said

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http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/24/supreme-court-ruling-states-nfl-teams-are-separate-entities/

This sounds like it could still put a kink in EA's exclusivity before any contract expires.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:20PM Vcize said

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@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi

I don't see what this has to do with the exclusivity license at all.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:25PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

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@Vcize EA most likely wouldnt have been the only one to do it if they didnt have that agreement.....thereby they may have taken the time to go ahead and cut that check if 2K already did
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:31PM Vcize said

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@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi

2k just recently made an entire game around retired players, where they paid them.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:04PM (Unverified) said

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sue the helll out of them.

any day EA gets sued, is a good day. I expect the mods and other users will attack me, for me taking a shot at the 'sacred cow'. Good. Who cares.

in a perfect world, Visual Concepts would go back to making football games. And EA would be without an NFL football game.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:12PM The BZA said

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@(Unverified) mods? attack you? what the hell..!?
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:23PM Osnaz said

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@(Unverified)
NFL 2K was the best. Enough said.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 4:32PM (Unverified) said

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@protofunc

I don't appreciate having my posts 'greyed-out' whenever i say something which isn't praising a particular game title or in-line with the industry standard. That is what i mean, idiot.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:13PM prodigy69 said

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LACES OUT FRINKLE!!

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:48PM CobraClutch said

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@prodigy69

I'm guessing that Ace Ventura is the extent of your football knowledge.

Oh, and it's Finkle.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:15PM RyogaVee said

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Aren't retired players covered by the NFL Players Union, who has a contract with EA?

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:19PM Maulok said

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@prodigy69
Finkle is Einhorne. Einhorne is Finkle. Einhorne... IS A MAN! < :-O

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 12:31PM Lucas Fenix said

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Can't see it happening, scrambling of names has happened for years in the ISS/Pro Evo world and no lawsuit has ever been successful.

Plus, I'm sure EA own the rights, the retired players probably don't know what rights EA own as alot of right for players are blanketed but various licenses.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:13PM CaptainProtonX said

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The EA thing trying to hoodwink players isn't the surprise.

But 6000? WOW! That many people played in the NFL? Now that's a surprise.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:21PM vidguy said

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Really? The NFL now has 32 teams with 53 man rosters, with a 90+ year history. Even accounting for a small number of teams in the early years, lock-out years, and carry-over rosters, 6000 seems like a reasonable estimate.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:41PM CaptainProtonX said

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@CaptainProtonX

So, the octogenarians are suing too?
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:54PM vidguy said

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@CaptainProtonX

Class actions don't require everyone's consent, just a similar interest. So one former player could come forward and tell the court, "look, every former NFL player like me is getting the screws. We should all be compensated." If the court agrees, boom, it is a class action.

Haven't you ever received a rebate from a class action for some defective product? They didn't need your permission to include you in the class of plaintiffs.
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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:21PM BinaryTB said

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Nuts to EA for having the only NFL video game license. Nuts to the retired football players who just want more money. They should both sue the hell outta each other, I'm going to apply to law school to get some of that money.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:31PM GoonieGooGoo said

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Didn't a similar suit by ex-players already fail in court where the ruling went in favor of EA?

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:46PM The Albatross said

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Sucks that you can't do this anymore. Historic teams and player likenesses were always a nice touch in the Madden's of old... and they've pretty much all been removed because of litigation.

I wish that EA could work out an agreement with the NFL Legends or Hall of Fame or something to use their likenesses and team likenesses from the past, because it would really be a great addition in a game to have that ... but I don't think it'll ever happen.

The only reason they're getting sued is because Madden has a namesake and EA has deep pockets in the industry. This has been the norm for every sports videogame ever to have fantasy players with scrambled names who's abilities resemble those of real life counterparts. But, no other sports games have had the recognition of Madden, which is why the suit comes up. Casual sports gamers or non-sports gamers will wish against EA because they're the big conglomerate, but if they do lose this and it sets a precedent in sports games, it will kill every small sports game franchise... and products by other companies that do anything similar. MLB 2K and The Show both use likenesses for minor leaguers who aren't in the MLB-PA, they will have to stop doing that; the NHL games use likenesses for non-NHL players around the world and in the US minor leagues, they'll have to stop doing that; Pro-Evo Soccer would effectively be shut down and banned; all of the sim baseball, football, basketball games would be shut down, and of course, College sports videogames would be crushed.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 1:57PM djenkins83 said

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So if I make a custom player and name him a retired player, give him the number of the said retired player, would they sue me? These guys have so much money they need to just shut up to be honest.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 2:10PM butaneko said

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Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 3:48PM Lerkero said

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Are retired players gonna sue EA every year from now on? I swear this case already happened.

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 4:31PM Sandite5 said

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One thing is for sure, the entertainment industry never fails to entertain me...

Posted: Aug 3rd 2010 6:47PM Elite49 said

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No one buys madden to play real football

Posted: Aug 4th 2010 12:46PM OniMajora said

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"According to IGN, the lawsuit claims that EA used the stats and positions of past players, but changed their uniform numbers and removed their names in order to get around having to pay licensing fees."

...which is perfectly within the law. Nothing but conjecture will be brought to the courtroom and perhaps EA will sue them for trying to muddy their image. They can stick that up their backsides.

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