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Reader Comments (35)

Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:18AM ToolroomKnight said

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Or maybe he's a bit bitter about Red Steel 2 not selling well?
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:18AM GrandpaMasaki said

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Nintendo really got behind the motion plus? Aren't there only like, three games that use it? Two of which were developed by a third party?
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 9:02AM Co said

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@GrandpaMasaki

Yes, but all that will be moot next generation when Motion+ or Motion++ as it may be will be built into every Wii2 remote and every Move/Sub Controller is shipped with every PS4.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:41AM Esposch said

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He makes a fair point.
We're not going to see any "real" Kinect/Move exclusive games as it cuts out a large portion of the market.

But blaming lack of WM+ support for Red Steel's lacklustre sales is a joke. They bundled it with copies of the game (albeit optionally), so it's not like it's segregating the market.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:18AM LockeDaemonfire said

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@Esposch

No one said lack of support led to decreased sales - two separate comments said that there was lack of support and sales were low . Both are true, and I think the former does influence the latter at least a little. If someone were to be looking for the Motion+ for some other game and sees Red Steel 2 has it bundled with it, they may be inclined to pick up the bundle. Also, if someone has the Motion+ and wants more games, they might look for games that support Motion+. As it stands, most of the like 16 million people who bought Sports Resort think that Motion+ is something used only in that game because Nintendo hasn't really backed it up.

More important to sales, however, would be the audience. Except for first party games with the iconic characters, casual games tend to do better on the Wii. I think that PS3/360 owners are where his real market is, and he's foolish not to make the game at least for the Move. A good percentage of people interested in the Move would go for the game if it was ported over, including myself.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:36AM Prinnywithascarf said

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@Esposch

Yeah. I'm still waiting for someone to make something amazing for the Kinect.

Think about it: we have technology similar to the ones in the Minority Report movie.

Developers just need to make some cool shit.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:49AM Co said

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@Esposch

"Think about it: we have technology similar to the ones in the Minority Report movie. "

I really don't think Kinect is at that level.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 10:06AM Prinnywithascarf said

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@Co

I said SIMILAR to the Minority Report. What with all the hand motions and stuff.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 11:54AM sigma8 said

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@Esposch
Kinect looks like it needs tailor-made games, which will only work with Kinect. So, yeah, it's creating an entirely new game market, where you need this new hardware to play the games.

But it looks like Sony is setting things up so that many upcoming (and even already-released) games will have Move support patched in. It'll be an additional control scheme. It makes me think of Mario Kart on the Wii. You can either play it Wii-style, or controlpad-style. Sony seems to be encouraging that route, which means Move games and normal games will be fully overlapped in Sony's market.

Devs making Move games won't have to worry that only Move early-adopters can play their games. It reminds me a bit of when Sony released the original Dual Shock on the PS1. There were only a very small number of PS1 games that required the Dual Shock, but many supported it, and it wound up being the dominant controller for the console at the end of its life.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:44AM Oxyrt said

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Is he serious?
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:55AM Pure Black World Tendency said

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He's totally serial.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:18AM LockeDaemonfire said

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@Pure Black World Tendency

He's cereal? I just ran out of cereal...
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Posted: Sep 17th 2010 3:56AM Raniz85 said

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@LockeDaemonfire
I had cereals with lemon-flavoured soured milk for breakfast
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:06AM MLC said

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I see a lot of potential in Move and Kinect. Kinect Star Wars has me wanting Kinect but thats really it. On the other hand, Move will support many games that either I plan on getting anyway or I already own. They could both be huge success if marketed right and great software developed for them.

As for Red Steel 2, why not port it Move and/or Kinect? HD graphics and better control scheme. I played Red Steel 2 it was ok. I think it would stand out if it was for Move or Kinect though. Just my 2 cents.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:53AM Co said

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@MLC

"Kinect Star Wars has me wanting Kinect but thats really it."

Why though? How is the player going to do ANYTHING in that game outside of the light saber duels? How will one advance throughout a level with no controller?

People are giving proposed Kinect games way too much credit. The slow decline in developer enthusiasm that is starting to be replaced with a "wait and see" approach should be red flag enough regarding Kinect. At this point I don't see it as anything more than a novelty, and one that the core 360 audience will be the first to dismiss.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 11:41AM LordBishop34 said

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@MLC

"As for Red Steel 2, why not port it Move and/or Kinect? HD graphics and better control scheme. I played Red Steel 2 it was ok. I think it would stand out if it was for Move or Kinect though. Just my 2 cents."

It probably would not be worth the effort. For it to have a chance to sell well they would have to change the control scheme to the standard controllers for those systems along with enhancing the graphics. Probably cost to much for limited return. Remember, it was as much the quality of the original Red Steel which did sell decently that hurt this one as anything else.

They could just do a straight port for the Move, again you would be targeting a small audience that will have the device that is known to hold graphics as a higher priority over quality. A kinects addition would not be worth it at all.

If he were to try those others it would be under a new project. But I think he is right, Motion plus is a limited audience and I think these devices would be lucky to reach half the penetration of that device before the new systems came out. The new system is what these devices need, the next generation.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:24AM BlackedOut said

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You realise that those fake games on commercials are what we call concept videos, right? Heros on the Move was a concept video.
Everything shown last year was concept or tech demos.
Those two videos you linked were tech demos.

Pretty much every playable game for both Motion controllers we have seen have been 1st party. Not talking of "support", but actual games built for these controllers are few and far between right now.

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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:37AM LonnieDVD said

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As long as MS keeps the Standard Controller in the loop, I have no problems with games using Kinect. MS must realize that many of us gamers don't have 15 feet of room to move and jump around!
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:57AM Co said

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@LonnieDVD

The philosophy behind a standard controller and the one behind Kinect are as night and day as it gets. I don't see how the two can or will coexist in the same game with any real success.

I actually believe Microsoft stating "oh but yes you can use the standard controller along with Kinect" was more preemptive damage control amongst the masses than anything else. It reminded me of when DS was announced as a "3rd" pillar to GameBoy and the home console, you know, just in case it flopped.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 8:53AM jackolo said

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@BlackedOut

I don't think it was a concept video...

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-heroes-on/101542
http://gamescom.gamespot.com/video/6273737/

GamesCon's trailer has many "full extended" scene from E3's trailer, since Sony's E3 2010 press conference was too long and running out of time, so I guess they had to cut it short.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 11:22AM MLC said

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Have you seen the trailer? You use your hands as lightsaber but you also have force powers and get to throw stuff at people. I (and others) think it could be cool. Something different for me.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 4:07PM KiraXD said

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@MLC

but how do you walk from point A to point B? rails? no thanks. a controller? ok then i cant flail my arms and pretend im using force or lightsabers... lose lose situation imo.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 9:27AM The Albatross said

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"Red Steel 2 Director Unsure of ... What Decade It Is, Thinks He's Stuck in 1986."
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 9:37AM McDuckScrooged said

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@BlackedOut Microsfts conference was all concept.. practically completely fake. Even faked some of it this year..

Not so with the move, the announcement was a live tech demo done by the engineers.. Here is the difference, Sony brings out 2 of the back end engineers that actually developed the tech and they showed real time the controller working nothing faked all real time, no real hype.. None of the game demos shown for the move have been concepts they have all been games in alpha and beta development..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkHwaXcXumo ----- Watch this clip of socom 4 being played by greg miller from ign..


Watch this clip from sorcery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llAI7lNd6OQ watch the tracking of his hand and his movements.

Now compare it to this:

http://kotaku.com/5614904/harry-potter-video-game-controlled-by-xbox-kinect-and-the-weasleys -- Watch the video..


Harry Potter on rails ? Why on rails ? Because you are the controller and no one wants to stand there and run on the spot for hours.. Next its really laggy and inaccurate..

In sorcery the guy shoots from his back thats how precise it is, he shakes the controller holds it above his mouth and in game the potion is drunk.. In this they have to hold out their hands 2 - 3 times just to get the thing to recognise their movements, whats the point to it ?

You have to be blind to not see how epicly bad the harry potter game for kinect is ..
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 9:50AM straffin said

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He's spot on when he says that developers will not fully embrace Kinect/Move until they come packed in to every console. Every Wii developer knows that every Wii owner has motion-sensing capabilities in their console, so they feel free to use it. As others pointed out, Motion+ and the Balance Board have hardly set the Wii world on fire, and it's specifically because every Wii owner does not have these items, so developers by-and-large are not developing for them. The same will be true for Kinect/Move until they are ubiquitous.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 10:57AM koehler83 said

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@straffin PS3 has spent it's entire life being maligned in a similar manner. Sony pulled it out themselves. They've been doing it since the PS1.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 10:14AM Zoot Suit Jedi Grammar Hammer En said

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Don't point at me, Wizard.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 1:05PM hami83 said

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He's right. Including anything that's not on the system from the get go fragments the market and thus makes sales even smaller.

I mean how many copies of Wii Sports resort did Nintendo sell? But how many people bought the other...What? 2 games that use M+
I can imagine the same will happen to Kinect and Move unless it's CONTINUALLY pushed, not just one big push then forget about it and focus on the next stupid accessory like a vitality sensor.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:40PM xxxsam said

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@hami83:

There's actually at least 3 major third-party games, but you're right about the numbers. Here's the data/guesses from vgchartz (might not be entirely accurate but there isn't a better source), worldwide sales on all:

Sports Resort: 8.8m
Tiger Woods 10: 0.86m
Grand Slam Tennis: 0.68m
Red Steel 2: 0.27m

so in other words, 'fantastic', 'respectable', 'ok', and 'ow'. Bear in mind that all three of the third-party games were reasonably decent games, I mean they didn't suck or anything.

I somehow think there's a MotionPlus game coming next year which will do rather better... (Zelda)

It could do with better support, that's for sure. What's most irritating is when games that would really benefit from the support - ie the motion controls are wonky - still don't have it. I mean, obviously fully supporting it takes some work, but how hard can it be to use it just to make existing gesture controls slightly more accurate where they are obviously flawed - and you get a bullet point on the box and (slight) attention from news outlets, so it's got to be worth the developer time. (Presumably it's that reason which gets it into Conduit 2, for instance - doesn't really use it in any impressive way, just makes the game behave slightly better if you move the cursor offscreen.)

I don't think the motion controls on the other two systems will set third-party sales on fire either. We'll see, though - MS in particular seem like they're really trying to promote it, so if they actually stick to that maybe there will be some success. (Then again, their system is the flakier one that's likely to be harder to adapt to existing game types... so who knows.)
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 2:02PM def PD said

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Sure, it'll fragment the market (for the 360 and PS3), but out of the 2, the Move is in a better position (IMO) since I believe it'll be A LOT easier to port Wii games over to the Move, as opposed to the Kinect.

Ds: Extraction, NMH are being ported over, with RE5: G, Heavy Rain, getting patched with Move support and a slew of original PSN and disc-based Move games coming out. It's seemingly already leaps and bounds better than the support for the original PS Eye(toy).

The Wii helped expand and grow the market and both Sony and Microsoft are going to try and capitalize off of that.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 3:18PM LordBishop34 said

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@def PD

You have to do more than port for the PS3 audience. You have to consider that alot of PS3 owners prize graphics over quality. SO you will have to spend time making it pretty. I think the Move is the better device for overall gaming compared to the Kinect. But limited audience will limit it. Tacking on motion controls to established games are not going to make the Move that appealing. They will need a Killer App that truely takes advantage of the Move built from the ground up for it. And they will have to make sure it will play well without motion controls so the game can clear the user base cap the Move device will place on its sale potential.

Still these devices are more of a preview of what we can expect from the next gen. See how people take to them.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 3:10PM LordBishop34 said

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@Thrasher666
the Wiimote was sold with every Wii system. Every Wii owner has a Wiimote. The Move even under ideal sales will likely sell only a fraction of the sales of the seldom used motion plus let alone the stand alone Wiimote. IT will be a small portion of the PS3 base. . It has limited sales potential over the declining years of that system. Now the games I am sure will by and large be playable with the standard controller, which helps But I don't see alot of developers spending the time and money it takes to make a QUALITY motion based game for the Move. So you have to look at this realistically, he is right to be concerned about the potential for these add ons.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 4:35PM Hedgeson said

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@LordBishop34
The comparisons are made with the Motion+, which was not sold with the Wii and is still used in only a few games. The Wiimote alone only enables waggle and pointing.

If SONY pushes developpers to at least support Move, more people wil buy it and there will be more Move-only games.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 7:59PM blahblah55 said

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Wow there's a lot of text on this page.
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Posted: Aug 18th 2010 11:04PM LordBishop34 said

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@Hedgeson

The Wiimote is motion control to people..it allows a fair level of control that is short of 1:1 movement. Motion plus allows that 1:1. The Move is competing with both technically. The Move would be hard pressed to even reach a fraction of the penetration of the motion plus and that simply will not be enough to validate long term large cost Move projects short of tacked on motion features. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. I think the guy is right. For the move and kinect to really be successful they have to be bundled with these systems next generation where developers are going with this on the get go like with Wii.
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