| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Massively, and more

Reader Comments (65)

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:36AM Ezio Auditore da Firenze said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"As for the future, I'd love to see four people up and dancing together and all being tracked, but only if it's going to be real authentic choreo and not silly hand-waving."

....isn't that what Dance Central is?

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:36AM Ezio Auditore da Firenze said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ezio Auditore da Firenze

"Real Authentic Choreo", that is, not silly hand-waving.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:42AM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Yeah, he means that it would have to be 4 players on the level of what Dance Central is for 1 person. I'd guess that it would be pretty easy to do 4 people if you only focused on one arm on each person. It may even have been done before :P
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:50AM zefur said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@LockeDaemonfire

"Yeah, he means that it would have to be 4 players on the level of what Dance Central is for 1 person"

With my group of friends finding four people on that level is a bit simple and if my friends where interested in it for multiplayer gaming they would be disappointed
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:56AM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@zefur

Ahh, I'm being confusing! I mean they would have to make the game do the same amount of tracking for each of four people as Dance Central does for one. Level of processing, not level of skill! :) Personally, I don't think that the current generation has the processing power to do it.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 9:05PM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Retrad

You are an egotistic jerk who lacks common courtesy.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:39AM Grey said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
Wow. Only one player at a time? Isn't this the same as just passing the controller to a friend when it's their turn to play? And the hits keep on coming....I can't wait to see the sale for this when it come out. It's either going to hit or miss. It could be the next *Wii* though. Who knows? Time to play the waiting game.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:41AM Grey said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@Grey

sidenote: I know some games can have more than one player. Time will only tell how many developers actually utilize that
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:42AM RichardMitchell said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Grey

While Dance Central is limited to one player, we've already seen other Kinect games that support two player simultaneously. We're trying to clarify whether or not it can support MORE than two players.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:43AM RichardMitchell said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@RichardMitchell

Simultaneous reply. Curses!
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:44AM Grey said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@RichardMitchell

Yup. Happens to me all the time. thanks for the clarification anyway. :)
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:46AM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Grey

Though I'm not a fan of taking turns, this is at least faster than passing a controller around because you don't have to physically interact with the other players to get the wrist band off them, on you, etc.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:13AM Wiizer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@RichardMitchell


We don't have to wait for Microsoft to respond, I think it's pretty obvious what the equation is to add more players:

The more players you add to a game, the less accurate the tracking will be from Kinect.

That's why you have that River Rafting game that only moves from side to side, and that's why Harmonix won't make a game that can't track a person's movements as accurately as possible. They've been able to work out only two players.

I mean, Kinect's a cool piece of hardware, but it can barely track 1:1, so software developers have to deal with it by designing around its limitations (utilizing 10% of the 360's resources is an example of a limitation).
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:21AM BlackedOut said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Wiizer
The more you want to track, the more processing power the unit will need. It sounds like its possible, but the game will look/run like crap because of Kinect hogging the CPU.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:42AM Talos Izanagi said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
I never planned on getting this in the first place so...meh.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:58PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@RichardMitchell

I think it's pretty clear it can't support more than two players at a time.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:43AM BrookLynnsFinest said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
Sounds pretty horrible to me.

As a 360 fanboy I'm starting to really doubt how great Kinect will be. I mean if it can't even track TWO players then that's a fail IMO.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:49AM B0FF said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@BrookLynnsFinest
MORE THAN TWO.

Did you see the text under the pretty picture??
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:52AM B0FF said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@B0FF
...Unless you meant the 6th paragraph about Harmonix, in which case please ignore my arsey-ness.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:54AM BrookLynnsFinest said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@B0FF

It says that the damn game can ONLY score ONE player.

Meaning that it can only track (by my definition) one person at at time. If it can't allow 2 people to dance at the same damn time and score them at the same time then it's not a good game.

Sorry but that's the truth.

Move may be Wii HD but the Wii has proven itself to be a success (regardless of the pathetic non important hardcore group of gamers).

sony has a better chance of success than MS does in this arena.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:00AM B0FF said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@BrookLynnsFinest
Yeah I've just re-read it again, and to be honest both the statements seem a little contradictory.

Tsunoda goes on about 'More than two';
Crooker goes on about "Concetrate on the single player"

They're both talking about the same thing right? Right??

Boff am confused!
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:01AM Espada said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@BrookLynnsFinest
Really guys? does it really need to have more than two players to enjoy kinect? how many ppl really play in your console 3? 4? come on. I think the 2 player limit is great. You can't have 4 players playing at the same time. whos gonna make fun of you or them then? lol
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:13AM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Espada

Are you really trying to claim that a two-player limit is a good feature? I mean I can understand when people say they don't care about it because it doesn't affect them, but allowing more than 2 people at once is strictly better than allowing only 2, given the same game. Because you can always play on 2 if you want, but you have the option for more.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:15AM Vcize said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@BrookLynnsFinest

Dude, you're back-tracking on what you said. In your original post you got all upset because kinect couldn't track two players. Then you referenced a paragraph where they were talking about a GAME not tracking two players.

There are very clearly several other games that fully track two players. The question is no whether kinect can handle 1 or 2, it's whether kinect can handle 2 or more than 2.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:16AM Wiizer said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Espada


For $150, it better play the damn harmonica, guitar, and bass while I play drums on Rock Band...
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:33AM McDuckScrooged said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Vcize simple answer ? You can find it by reading the technical details on any site thats pre-ordering the kinect:


------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Details


Rating
3+ (PEGI)
Minimum Requirements

Sensor
Colour and depth-sensing lenses
Voice microphone array
Tilt motor for sensor adjustment
Fully compatible with existing Xbox 360 consoles

Field of View
Horizontal field of view: 57 degrees
Vertical field of view: 43 degrees
Physical tilt range: ± 27 degrees
Depth sensor range: 1.2m - 3.5m

Data Streams
320x240 16-bit depth @ 30 frames/sec
640x480 32-bit colour@ 30 frames/sec
16-bit audio @ 16 kHz

Skeletal Tracking System
Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players
Tracks 20 joints per active player
Ability to map active players to LIVE Avatars

Audio System
LIVE party chat and in-game voice chat (requires Xbox LIVE Gold Membership)
Echo cancellation system enhances voice input
Speech recognition in multiple
This information is based on specifications supplied by manufacturers and should be used for guidance only.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the Kinect Pre Order Technical Specifications..

They are selling this thing as only actively supporting maximum 2 players..

Now take from that what you want, but if they are pre ordering the thing with a 2 player limitation, then that must be the limitation..
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:45PM cool8man said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@McDuckScrooged The 2 player limit is a software limitation, something which can change over time as code gets better and uses fewer system resources.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 1:17PM McDuckScrooged said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@cool8man yes thats what the limitation is.. Its software, not a 320x240 sensor not the fact that they removed the cpu from the device and instead decided to offload the processing onto the 360..

I dont care if its software, hardware, floatware, vapourware, smokeware, mirrorware whatever - The technical specs to pre-order the device states 2 player active.. Twist that into whatever you want and view that however you want it doesn't bother me..

If you think this device is like the best thing ever designed good for you. If you think this thing will be able to map 8 players (6 inactive and 2 active) to play with each other at the same time good for you..

Let me put it to you this way, If I get 20 people and crowd them in front of my tv and give them each a wii mote and ask 2 of them to play Just Dance and tell the other 20 to also dance like the on screen characters does that mean that the wii supports 20 players ?

There is 20 players each with a wiimote with the ability to be tracked by the console and each dancing to the screen, that must mean the wii is capable of supporting 20 players right ?

This is the same sort of logic being employed by Microsoft marketing.

The question to ask yourself is, who are they trying to fool ?
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 2:32PM Solar Jetman said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@McDuckScrooged Whoa son, easy on the caffeine. I don't need to ask myself who Marketing is trying to fool, because the answer is always, always "all of the people all of the time." That's what Marketing is. I'm pretty sure game developers don't care about what "capabilities" MS Marketing chooses to advertise to the public. They are going to do what they can for crafting the best and most profitable product.

Multitaps are a thing because smart people figured out how to break through hardware design limitations via software, and I have no doubt Kinect will be able to do the same thing.. in time. It is utterly impossible to know what the capabilities of technologies are at the time of their creation. What you put on the box is what the engineers say can go on the box. If a game next year supports 4 active players, that will go on the GAME box, not change on the Kinect box.

Considering how rare local co-op is these days, and all of these "hardcore" folks tend to hate on the Wii, I'm amazed people aren't caring more about how Kinect plays over LIVE. Can I have an 8-player internet dance off? I sure as hell can't fit eight people in my living room. But what are the odds I'll know eight people with Kinect?

I'll give it a year to shake down and see what they can do. 360 ain't going away anytime soon, especially if Kinect catches on.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 6:43PM McDuckScrooged said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Solar Jetman Ive seen a lot of articles about Kinect pop up..

Yes this user limitation is a stupid question.. I generally dont like Digital Foundry, but this again is one of his better articles and was very informative, read this:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-case-for-kinect-article?page=2

He has obviously gotten a lot of insider information where the Kinekt is concerned. Read through that article from the start I linked it from page 2
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:49AM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I want to see the footage of 4 drunk people playing dance central at once....I have a feeling their would be some sort of blood shed

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:13AM Uncle Jesse said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi

If you live in an apartment building and you are not on the first floor... do not attempt this at home for your own good and the good of your downstairs neighbours.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:36PM Odog4ever said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi

I've been in a living room with 4 people playing Just dance at the same time. It was unwieldy to say the least. Too close to each other and you get hit, too far and your not in front of the TV anymore and your accuracy suffers. I don't see why the switching back and forth (like in a real dance battle) is so horrible for Just Dance.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:49AM Lerkero said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Based on Dance Central's current state, its basically one of those funny "learn to dance" videos. It's still slightly competitive, but a lot of the fun is lost if people can't directly compete against each other.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:26AM BlackedOut said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Lerkero
Not in the same room anyway.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:53AM NasalBaton said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I don't get what all this kinect multiplayer fus is about. The guy said that it can do more than one player at a time, but that it was simply a creative decision to only have one. Kudo and other various Microsoft reps have also said that kinect can do more than one player... Guess what. It can also be used while sitting down! I know. Mind blowing.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:24AM VoodooHack said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@NasalBaton I agree. The answer's right there as you said. I guess selective reading wins out every time.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:53AM LockeDaemonfire said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Joystiq is the first site I've seen to recognize the lack of congruence between Kudo's statement and what Harmonix has said before. That and their willingness to pursue the matter further are part of why I enjoy being on this site! :)

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 10:56AM B0FF said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
They could have at least had score tracking for players 3 & 4 (& so on) without them needing to sign in. Just have 3Up, 4Up or Player 3 etc.

I know this may get in the way of achievements but it's local only anyway - right?

Who wants to play gooseberry and be the faint silhouette 'backing dancer' in the background???

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:00AM ii Stryker said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Who seriously has the room to accomodate 4 simultaneous players flailing about?

Imagine all the ER visits with over zealous friend/family member kinect related injuries...LOL

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:03AM B0FF said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Maybe MS can do a V 2.0 that supports at least 4 players simultaneously and call it.......... Ready........
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Kinect 4!


Don't worry, I'm going.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:05AM Espada said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
No 2 player first so the other 2 can get a good laugh. then switch.

Posted: Aug 28th 2010 1:28PM Boboloco said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I don't care I'll just bump my music as loud as I can I hate the ppl that live upstairs fr3 me.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:18AM Wormious said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
OMG WTF Why can't they track 50 players? This tech sucks. Imma gunna bai a Wii. Comprehension FTL.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:32AM Wiizer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Wormious

I'm sure you've read this:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=258297

Oops, sorry. I meant this:

http://www.bestbuy.co.uk/page/article.aspx?ArticleName=Gaming_The%20lowdown%20on%20Microsoft%20Kinect%20%28aka%20Project%20Natal%29
(Read under Motion Capture)

So, I'm sure we 'comprehend' when someone is not telling the entire truth. :D
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:19AM tchuks said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
He brings up a good point as to why too many players isn't really convenient (other than the processing limitation on the hardware). You can easily get in the way of another person and then the game won't know who to track.

I think that's the main reason for the 1 player limitation in this kind of game. You are dancing around and moving around not really standing still, really easy to be in someone's way if you are playing with 2 or more people. The games that support two or more players are probably more stationary games where you can stand still and just move your hands or arms or something.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 11:52AM iFester said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Wait, if Harmonix hope for a 4 player choreo still dance game, that means...

Kinect Backstreet Boys!

Nooooooooooooooooo....

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:03PM Wormious said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Wiizer

Weird...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/ref=pd_ts_pg_2?ie=UTF8&pg=2
(see 35)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/videogames/ref=pd_ts_pg_2?ie=UTF8&pg=2
(see 49 and 53)

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/06/19/kinect-how-it-works-from-the-company-behind-the-tech/ ("can support any number of players") - So it's a software thing - It seems Harmonix made a decision to support only one at a time.

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:13PM spin cycle said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Wormious The tech behind Kinect can support more players. However Kinect cannot. MS cut down the hardware (apparently to save money). If you buy a Kinect right now you must understand it will never do sophisticated tracking of more than two players.

It's always possible to support more players in a less interactive mode. After all, at the least Kinetic operates as a video camera and a game company could write their own software to do movement recognition of more than two players at a time as long as they limit the sophistication of the tracking so as to fit within the available CPU time.
Reply

Posted: Aug 27th 2010 12:29PM Wiizer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Wormious


It's amazing how many people are duped by spin... You really truly believe it can track accurately that many people?

Well, so can my PS Eye! It can track as many people as I can get to stand in front of it!

SO AMAZING!
Reply

Featured Stories

Image

Silver Lining: I Am Alive's unfeeling world

Posted on May 25th 2012 7:30PM

Image

Game Of Thrones and the paradoxes of adaptation

Posted on May 25th 2012 5:00PM

Engadget

Engadget

TUAW

TUAW

Massively

Massively

WoW

WoW