Rhode Island treasurer seeks to block $75M loan to 38 Studios
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Rhode Island gubernatorial candidate Frank Caprio, who is also the general treasurer, is working to block the state's $75 million loan to 38 Studios. The Boston Globe reports Caprio wants to stop the loan guarantee, which the studio would receive in exchange for moving from Massachusetts to Rhode Island, until a new governor is sworn in. Several other gubernatorial candidates have also expressed concern.
The multi-million dollar deal, which would leave Rhode Island taxpayers with the bill if 38 Studios was to go under, is key to the company creating a proposed 450 jobs in the state by the end of 2012. 38 Studios currently employs approximately 200 staff.
The multi-million dollar deal, which would leave Rhode Island taxpayers with the bill if 38 Studios was to go under, is key to the company creating a proposed 450 jobs in the state by the end of 2012. 38 Studios currently employs approximately 200 staff.
Reader Comments (17)
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 3:48PM Dustin F said
This isn't a politics board and I don't like to go into politics in places like this, but that is way too few jobs for the money involved, IMO.
It would be more efficient to offer a tax rebate of some kind.
They could even make it tech related. If you hire people for work that meets x,y.z tech job criteria, you get X tax rebate.
Just my take. These special loans really annoy me because not everyone can get them. You have to have the right connections, which I worry leads to campaign contributions or worse and a messy system that isn't geared in the right direction.
I live in Austin. I have seen tons and tons of tech jobs come here from California. Taxation and regulation have a huge impact on that.
I hope the company can make it, without the loan. It's a tough economy, particularly up there. $75 mill is a ton of cash, too. I know some games cost that much to develop, but I think they could make something profitable at a much lower cost, and work their way up. That kind of thing is slower, but it's more stable. Maybe that's a solution to some of the problems we see economically, particularly in the tech sector.
Reply
It would be more efficient to offer a tax rebate of some kind.
They could even make it tech related. If you hire people for work that meets x,y.z tech job criteria, you get X tax rebate.
Just my take. These special loans really annoy me because not everyone can get them. You have to have the right connections, which I worry leads to campaign contributions or worse and a messy system that isn't geared in the right direction.
I live in Austin. I have seen tons and tons of tech jobs come here from California. Taxation and regulation have a huge impact on that.
I hope the company can make it, without the loan. It's a tough economy, particularly up there. $75 mill is a ton of cash, too. I know some games cost that much to develop, but I think they could make something profitable at a much lower cost, and work their way up. That kind of thing is slower, but it's more stable. Maybe that's a solution to some of the problems we see economically, particularly in the tech sector.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 5:02PM aristokrat said
@Dustin F
We've had this discussion before in the comments. No business investment is a risk-free venture, but would you rather they create more jobs with a lower probability of loan payback? I think it'd be much worse to loan $75m to a bunch of restaurant startups or something, to create 5000 for six months, and lose all the money in the long run (worse case scenario).
The loan should be based on the chance of repayment, not the jobs it creates. If that was your only goal, why not just give that $75m to 10,000 people off that bat, and skip the whole "loan" business altogether.
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We've had this discussion before in the comments. No business investment is a risk-free venture, but would you rather they create more jobs with a lower probability of loan payback? I think it'd be much worse to loan $75m to a bunch of restaurant startups or something, to create 5000 for six months, and lose all the money in the long run (worse case scenario).
The loan should be based on the chance of repayment, not the jobs it creates. If that was your only goal, why not just give that $75m to 10,000 people off that bat, and skip the whole "loan" business altogether.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 5:10PM aristokrat said
@jsx92
Have you seen his balance sheets or business plans, things I'm sure he presented originally in order to seal this deal in the first place? I'm guessing not, so you have no idea how much risk is involved in this investment.
If the state is going to act like a venture capital firm by giving out business loans in the first place, I'm sure they're doing their research. This recent dick-wagging is a pretty blatant vote-grab tactic, and I'm surprised so many people fall for it.
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Have you seen his balance sheets or business plans, things I'm sure he presented originally in order to seal this deal in the first place? I'm guessing not, so you have no idea how much risk is involved in this investment.
If the state is going to act like a venture capital firm by giving out business loans in the first place, I'm sure they're doing their research. This recent dick-wagging is a pretty blatant vote-grab tactic, and I'm surprised so many people fall for it.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 5:58PM Dustin F said
@aristokrat
"would you rather they create more jobs with a lower probability of loan payback?"
I suppose it depends on how much tax revenue you plan to get from these jobs.
but I prefer your conclusion that the state should get our of the loan business altogether. Banks should give loans, have different interest rates (for investors) depending on how well the loans work out, with some very basic safety net (a solvent FDIC).
In my opinion, jobs are the main reason for this kind of loan, so I would prefer they just be very direct, using a bright line rule for all companies instead of special deals for particular companies that manage to make it to this point. They could also consider, as I said, the policies that have distinguish places with job growth from places with job losses.
Reply
"would you rather they create more jobs with a lower probability of loan payback?"
I suppose it depends on how much tax revenue you plan to get from these jobs.
but I prefer your conclusion that the state should get our of the loan business altogether. Banks should give loans, have different interest rates (for investors) depending on how well the loans work out, with some very basic safety net (a solvent FDIC).
In my opinion, jobs are the main reason for this kind of loan, so I would prefer they just be very direct, using a bright line rule for all companies instead of special deals for particular companies that manage to make it to this point. They could also consider, as I said, the policies that have distinguish places with job growth from places with job losses.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 3:52PM LaughingTarget said
It would be better of the State wasn't playing favorites as to which industries are going to form or not.
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Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 4:13PM PR0F3TA said
well it is $75 million, you can't blame the treasurer for trying to do his job, he knows the pros and cons of this loan in this economy. He prob just wants to know 110% that this loan will get paid off so the state does not lose any money and the taxpayers (aka the people) wont be stuck paying off the bill.
i dont know 38 studios track record, but its not a company like EA or Activision where you know you will most likely get alot of that money back. Its a HUGE gamble to take out a loan that big. its $75 mill for god sakes.
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i dont know 38 studios track record, but its not a company like EA or Activision where you know you will most likely get alot of that money back. Its a HUGE gamble to take out a loan that big. its $75 mill for god sakes.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 4:19PM PR0F3TA said
@PR0F3TA
upon further reading one of the games that will make benifit from this loan is an open world RPG called "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning"... backed by EA and a whole crew of respected people from Bethesda to Spawn creator Todd McFarlane. They have promised 450 jobs... maybe the state sees the cons out weight the pros.
Teaser Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ52mwNMJYI
Reply
upon further reading one of the games that will make benifit from this loan is an open world RPG called "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning"... backed by EA and a whole crew of respected people from Bethesda to Spawn creator Todd McFarlane. They have promised 450 jobs... maybe the state sees the cons out weight the pros.
Teaser Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ52mwNMJYI
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 5:07PM aristokrat said
@PR0F3TA
It's not that the "state" sees the cons outweight the pros. It's that these gubernatorial candidates have latched onto a "cause." They see a loan for $75m to a small company, and it doesn't matter if that company has figured out a weigh to turn lead into gold, it's a campaign goldmine. "I'm fighting for the little guy by not letting this fatcat loan go through," they'll say, regardless of what due diligence was done by their predecessor to find out the riskiness of the investment.
Also, no loans are risk-free. That's kind of the point of them.
The worst part about this for the people of Rhode Island, though they don't know and no candidate will ever mention this, is that this will chill future development of the game industry in that state because now companies will have reason to doubt any incentive promises made to them by the government. Going against an already finalized agreement is terrible business practice, but unfortunately many politicians will do anything for votes in the short run, regardless of how much it actually hurts their constituencies in the long run.
Reply
It's not that the "state" sees the cons outweight the pros. It's that these gubernatorial candidates have latched onto a "cause." They see a loan for $75m to a small company, and it doesn't matter if that company has figured out a weigh to turn lead into gold, it's a campaign goldmine. "I'm fighting for the little guy by not letting this fatcat loan go through," they'll say, regardless of what due diligence was done by their predecessor to find out the riskiness of the investment.
Also, no loans are risk-free. That's kind of the point of them.
The worst part about this for the people of Rhode Island, though they don't know and no candidate will ever mention this, is that this will chill future development of the game industry in that state because now companies will have reason to doubt any incentive promises made to them by the government. Going against an already finalized agreement is terrible business practice, but unfortunately many politicians will do anything for votes in the short run, regardless of how much it actually hurts their constituencies in the long run.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 4:35PM LaughingTarget said
@PR0F3TA
Long answer:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Reply
Long answer:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 6:28PM Controlled Chaos said
If they were getting cold feet, they should have just not chosen to offer 38 Studios the money in the first place.
To say, "Oh, sure, definitely!" and then to try and block it isn't that fair to the company.
Reply
To say, "Oh, sure, definitely!" and then to try and block it isn't that fair to the company.
Posted: Sep 2nd 2010 9:30PM SpongeBobPistolPants said
i don't know how far along the company is in relocating but if the funding is pulled i hope the game studio has some legal repercussions against the state for pulling it. if they had relocated employees, leased space, and so forth based on this loan they could be facing some huge hurdles to moving forward with any game creating.
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