Valve owns up to its 'failures' with PS3 and 360

by Richard Mitchell on Sep 9th 2010 6:50PM

As part of a series of interviews with PC Gamer, the folks at Valve recently gave out a laundry list of failures on the company's part. Many readers will be familiar with many on the list, including early versions of Team Fortress 2, the flying fairy game and, more recently, mistakenly banning over 12,000 Modern Warfare 2 players. Of particular note on the list were Valve's failures regarding the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Valve's Erik Johnson lamented the way the company has dealt with the PS3, and also referred to the lack of Team Fortress 2 updates on the Xbox 360 as "a total failure." Johnson noted that these failures are worse than internal failures, saying, "If you fix a bug before it ever ships, it's pretty cheap. If you ship it and then fix it, it's really expensive." Gabe Newell added that the company is "really happy with the current situation with the PS3."

Concerning the lack of TF2 updates on Xbox, Newell admits that Valve built the game assuming that Microsoft would eventually change some of its Xbox Live rules (thought he didn't elaborate on the nature of said rules). "We thought that there would be something that would emerge," said Newell, "because we figured it was a sort of untenable." He added that Valve understood Microsoft's rules when it made TF2, but they were "such a train wreck" that the company assumed they would "have to change" eventually.

Source: PC Gamer

Tags: microsoft, pc, playstation, ps3, xbox

Reader Comments (100)

And it's still a trainwreck, even almost 3 years later.

And after reading this, I have an even higher respect for Valve now, if it could go any higher than it already was.

@Shadowbender Valve switches sides at the flip of a quarter, they cry about rules that existed before they took action and then cry about it. Much respect.

@bshido +1. Valve fanboys are some of the worst studio fanboys in gaming.

For how long Valve takes on their games, there shouldn't be so many bugs. I love Valve, but seriously?

What bugs?

@Awesomaniac The missing updates aren't bug fixes, those fall well within Microsoft's update policy. The updates add maps, game modes, and class upgrades which Microsoft normally charges for.

what a sack of gabage. They made games for 360 knowing full well what their rules are, and they still complain about it and try to shift blame. assuming things will change is not only a stupid business move, its a stupid thing in general.

@bshido I agree Valve shouldn't shift the blame, but Microsoft should lighten up just a LITTLE.

@Awesomaniac SHOULD, but they don't HAVE to. Valve knew full well, and still decided to go forward with things. I fail to have any pity or on a company that makes business decisions based what rules will maybe change in the future.

@bshido
It's still nice to have someone speaking out on the very anti-consumer practices of Microsoft, though.

Hopefully with the ending of Original Xbox support earlier this year Microsoft will be able to open up Live a bit more and implement some of the things that the Valve team were looking for.

@oOWallaceOo Unfortunately, giving stuff away for free doesn't make Microsoft any money. You see Valve's dilemma.

@oOWallaceOo You're being naive if you think that move was for anything other than saving money by shutting down the old servers. In my opinion at least.

So TF2 is a failure on Xbox Live in relation to not receiving the updates of the PC version, because of the 'rules'

Ok. So instead of fixing the current version, how about coming out with a newer version? Maybe a 2.5 release? or an XBLA/PSN version? or digital download version? Perhaps come out with a version 3.

Would LOVE to see a new Team Fortress game....

@Starcade Clearly you're still dreaming.

Unless XBLA and PSN allow 10GB games, TF2 probably won't be made available through those channels.

@einhanderkiller PSN has Burnout: Paradise, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue and Section 8 available for download, pretty sure at least one of those is above 10 GB.

@Fausk
Oh yeah, I forgot about the full game downloads. Those are retail games, though, and I think they have a separate section in the marketplaces. I don't know about PSN, but XBLA has a limit of 2GB for the games.

Valve added a lot of content to TF2 over the years which increased the file size a lot. On my computer, TF2 takes up 10GB, but I'm sure they could optimize the game to bring down the size. But to bring it below 2GB seems unlikely.

@Starcade The game was in development for almost 10 years. They did a great job with it, and are updating it regularly on the PC. Why would they need a 3rd Team Fortress so soon?

I expect the next Team Fortress game in 5 years Valve Time.

Gabe Newell added that the company is "really happy with the current situation with the PS3."
Frankly, that's a load of bull. I can just see him snicker when he said that. Gabe doesn't like developing for any console. He's clearly a PC elitist (for a good reason).

Spoken from Gabe Newell himself.

I don't get why everyone is bringing up the point that they already knew what the Xbox Live policies were before making the product. Was there some sort of alternative? The only thing Valve could have done about it would have been to refuse to bring the game to consoles in the first place, but that would just be a disservice to happy customers (me included) who bought (and loved) Team Fortress 2 on the 360.

Everybody loves calling out mistakes. The reality is that this isn't a mistake and there's no good solution. Quit yer bitchin'.

@noyesa

Agreed. I had fun on TF2, even without the updates.

@PlayboyX Just curious, is your gamertag similar to your name? I think I recognize you but I'd be willing to bet there are other people with a very similar name. :D

@noyesa
Playboy X is a character from GTA4.

@einhanderkiller Ah ok. Did not know that.

@noyesa

My gamertag has Playboy in it, and some numbers. But I'll leave it at that. Currently on a silver membership until I can spot one of those cheaper Xbox Live cards.

Hugs for everyone!!!!!

Yeah, I don't see how pointing at Microsoft's Xbox Live policies and saying it's their rigid system that's at fault is owning up to anything. I really like Valve and a lot of their games, but seriously... Releasing a game for a console, knowing it's limitations in either hardware or support infrastructure and then complaining about it well after the fact does not a wise business model make. It's a good thing Valve had a lot of brand loyalty and brand recognition for Team Fortress I guess. Any other game would have been sunk on arrival I think.

Just work on Portal 2, get it released in a timely fashion, without bugs.... if you can... Thanks.

@jgladeb It's a perfectly wise business decision, updates or no. They sold 1.5 million copies on the Xbox 360 alone. There are few other companies that would call their inability to continue to provide value to the community a failure.

Why exactly is there a difference between Team Fortress 2 updates and stuff like the Borderlands update coming out that is raising the level cap, but is free? Or the Monday Night Combat re-balancing update?

@HolyRayne Small updates like those are okay. Valve has extended the game significantly, added maps, game modes, upgraded the character classes, and all sorts of other things that Microsoft would normally sell rather than give away for free.

Actually, the Xbox 360 version of Team Fortress 2 already did receive some minor balancing updates, including an option for the host to restrict classes.

@HolyRayne
Also, MNC has a very novel approach to updates. They store a patch file on the developer storage space that Microsoft gives to game devs for their XBLA games, and the game itself checks for that patch file whenever it loads up. So, they can completely rebalance everything in MNC without ever needing to have the users download anything from the Marketplace.

@trendscenedental

Wow, I expected Uber Entertainment would be able to use the patch file to create tweaks and things of that nature but does that include this massive overhaul that is coming out?

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/30/monday-night-combat-patch-free-dlc-pack-incoming/

Release L4D 1&2 on Ps3 already
What's the hold up???

What, exactly, is the current situation w/ PS3?

What about the failure to get Episode 3 out?

So Sony doesn't charge for game updates?
I loved TF2 for 360, but kind of pissed me off about all the awesome updates the steam users got.

Just release Episode 3 within 2 years and we'll be good Gabey boy.

How about this from Microsoft - "We'll open up XLBA as soon as HL2 Episode 3 is ready. Deal?"

360 people you should be happy you got any updates. I have a ps3 and have an EA port of orange box with no updates at all :(

@genericpuffs

I feel your pain bro.

That'll change in the future.

Valve, please just stick to the PC as much as you can. Go with consoles, but don't whore out like Crytek and so many others did.

The PC needs all the great developers it can get.

This isn't "owning up". This is nothing more than admission.

Actually, Valve isn't the only developer pissed at Microsoft for their patch/DLC policies. When Mass Effect 2 came out, Bioware said a big reason they couldn't fix alot of issues is that Microsoft only allows updates to be 4mb or less, and patches/DLC can't be bundled together without a special contract. Also, they only allow 4 updates a year total by default.

@Prboi lol don't you think that's a bit too harsh although with how they did things that becomes a harsh fact.

I'm excited at the prospect of having TF2 updated on the PS3 with Steamworks. .

Good to see Gabe (and Co) finally owning up to their mistakes. Lack of PS3 and Mac support are at the top of the list IMHO. Excited to see the future from here.

i call bullshit, if your going to call one of the premier online gaming experiences, "a trainwreck", u better have detailed examples and solid ground for claiming such things... i think they couldnt man up and take responsibility for being lazy and dropping the ball on DLC... everybody was bitchin about TF2, but wat about L4D2??? all this time and all they gave us was that bullshit "the passing" DLC?? Come on guys, just man up and tell the truth, u guys got lazy, plain and simple...

What valve has really screwed up on is not giving HL2 any updates in years, and giving 360 players the preferential treatment, while pissing in the faces of their long-time PC fans in the process.

By now HL2 tech and gameplay is so old and outdated that unless episode 3 receives a radical makeover, it will launch and be way outdated. I'm talking about the source engine, weapons that don't let you aim down the site, being a mobile armory (being able to carry all weapons in the game at the same time) etc. These are all very dated mechanics.

Really, Episode 2 already felt awkward and dated (though it was still good), but years later, Episode 3 is just going to be irrelevant if it follows the same forumla and game design.

Previous 50 Comments

Valve owns up to its 'failures' with PS3 and 360

Reader Comments (100)

Posted: Sep 9th 2010 7:07PM Shadowbender said

Posted: Sep 9th 2010 7:10PM bshido said

Posted: Sep 9th 2010 7:13PM zenaxe said

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Posted: Sep 9th 2010 7:36PM einhanderkiller said

Posted: Sep 9th 2010 8:25PM noyesa said

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