Sony launches pro-button, anti-Kinect campaign with yaybuttons.com

"Microsoft's Kudo Tsunoda confirmed future games could use the button-y Xbox 360 controller in conjunction..."
Then that's just not motion control or the buttonless future Microsoft seems to harp on about, is it? Why would you bother with Kinnect if you need the normal controller anyway then; doesn't it seem like a gimmick? The thing is, therefore, Joystiq - the main thing about Kinnect and which Microsoft is trying to harp about is the fact that there aren't any buttons or a controller during gameplay, it's just hand gestures and movement. Now that is the topic here, the device and message itself (from the company), not cross-input gameplay (which seems awfully obtuse when you think about it).

@metamorphic

A very valid opinion, but what does it have to do with the post you're "replying" to?

@metamorphic

i was thinking the same thing.

@Sam406

It has everything to do with getting his post on the first page.

@metamorphic

God dammit I put up an honest post stating my opinion, and 6 hours later I get home to find I've been post-jacked. It'd better not happen again.

"It only does CONTROL"
Well played Sony.

@metamorphic Probably, Sony is feeling the competition already now that Kinect will probably a game-changer for vide-games. Unbiased look. http://minyurl.org/u3x

@lilijeckole
Thanks for spamming your site yet again.

On topic, buttons are pretty cool. I can't figure out my feelings on Kinect still.

@King Johngie the Fourth

Haters gonna hate. As someone who has worked with the Move and Kinect I personally lean more towards the later. I guess everyone will see why once both devices release.

@BlackedOut

Yes, it goes down from 5 star funny to 4.5 star funny.

It's pretty hilarious.

And I'm going to go ahead and reject Joystiq's argument that Sony shouldn't market this functionality vs Kiniecht because MS might let you use a controller.

This is a discrete control solution that handles motion, 3d, and buttons. It's just more fun than another Eyetoy. You know, you could use a Dualshock with some Eyetoy games... it didn't make it more fun... it was simply an admission that the actual eyetoy concept was missing something. And that something was buttons.

@JGray73
And the difference between this is?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/10/microsoft-celebrates-windows-phone-7-rtm-with-funeral-parade-for/

@Gameforall
You didn't read the comments or look at the pictures, did you?
Internal company parade to mark the release of wp7, that was just one of the 'floats,' and wasn't meant to be a part of any ad campaign.

@Shadow 024
"You didn't read the comments"
you assume a lot

"wasn't meant to be a part of any ad campaign"
Well it was. if they objected that float would not be there,

@JGray73
You say it yourself. Kinetct and wii are not for hardcore gamers. So then... Sony has the upper hand in this now don't they? By making move geared towards a more hardcore crowd... It stand as the lead hardcore waggle out there now doesn't it?

@KiraXD
No, because it's not out. It's not the lead anything.

@KiraXD Hardcore waggle seems a contradiction in terms.
Then again... this waggle has BUTTONS. And a BIG GLOWING BALL!
It's not hardcore unless it has a ball on it somewhere. :)

@BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam

With the touchscreens at least you can touch something but with kinect this is what is going to happen http://i.imgur.com/RX43u.gif

@BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam

i think iOS is a great platform for games, but not all games work for the touch screen. Games like Modern Combat and N.O.V.A leave alot to be desired gameplay wise without buttons, but games like Angry Birds, Peggle, Doodle Jump, and even Plants vs. Zombies have shown that when applied right the touch screen can actually benefit from lack of buttons.

@Complex

or how about this:

http://i49.tinypic.com/6dzhc6.jpg

@PR0F3TA
Only less complex, or "casual", games are fine with touch only. Or games designed with the interface in mind. The touch screen is a great input device, and brings a lot to gaming,but it cannot work well by itself. It is not, and never will be*, a replacement for physical buttons.

For a real example, I have Pac-Man CE on my iPod, and it becomes an exercise in frustration at higher speeds regardless of which control method I've tried. I would rather use the 360's shoddy D-pad to using a touchscreen for something as simple as Pac-Man.

For a hypothetical example, Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks COULD be ported to the iDevices (obviously won't, because Nintendo makes games for Nintendo systems). The DS games did not require the usage of buttons AT ALL. Everything is accessable from the touch screen. However, it becomes more cumbersome to do so. The usage of buttons supporting the touch screen made several tasks quicker to perform (using the subweapon and opening the menus and map) while still allowing for their intended control scheme. Still, the lack of buttons would not be ideal, but it could work.

*Never being until the time they invent a touchscreen where virtual buttons have the same "feel" as real buttons.

LMFAO!!! @Kid Icarus

@PR0F3TA

iOS SUCKS BALLS FOR GAMES. I took a course in that stuff an it's ridiculously complex, and I have coding experience. Apple acts like a giant dick and changes the programming language all the time. Every time you get an update for your iPod the coding for the apps changes drastically. Thus creating an unnecessary amount of work updating past games for small studios and indie developers that rely on releases to make money. That's why bugs pop up all the time and you have to update your apps all the time, even if the updates don't really do anything.

@Edsabre
yaycoloredballs.com

@Edsabre Colored balls and vastly superior tracking... Oh... and HD.

@Edsabre
I see through this. Its a defensive move by Sony. That tells me they see Kinect as a legitimate threat to the Move and they're going to great lengths to undermine the hype around Kinect. They can try to influence popular opinion, but it may only fall on ears that don't matter - like the hardcore gamers that won't be buying Kinect.

@Edsabre It's like arguing what's best between cat or dog shit. The answer is nether; becuase they are both still shit. Also points off for going after Microsoft's baby toy. Sony know Nintendo would kick their arse and steal their lunch money. Reeeeal brave that.

@PoisonedAl
Dude, no. Dogs are awesome.

@KeegdnaB Never even thought of that. You're right they could easily add a controller for Kinnect. I'm sure Sony will say, "You copied our controller!"

I'm so annoyed by people using the word copied about these competing systems. Who cares, everything is based off something.

@KeegdnaB

My thoughts exactly. I'd be willing to bet it will happen to some degree too.

It's a bit aggressive as a marketing campaign too. I've been fond of Sony and their usual non-BS stance on things in their marketing up to now. This however makes them look like childish jerks.

I hope this doesn't become like a political campaign with both sides using counter propaganda to boost their sales. That's not good for gaming.

@KeegdnaB

Yeah, it would be called the "Xbox 360 controller." You know, the we already use. It's been confirmed that developers can use both in conjunction.

@KeegdnaB I doubt Microsoft is going to make an add-on for an add-on. Who is going to develop for a subset of a subset of users? Besides the fact that by the time they would get something like that out the door and get any developer support we'd be close to next console cycle. By then hopefully we'll be looking at controller schemes that are better than Move or Kinect.

@ItsameMatt03 the 360 controller is a bit heavy to be throwing around one handed, and moving it much while holding it with two hands is just awkward.

@KeegdnaB
Actually.. it has far more to do with software than anything else. It is true that the eye will never have the IR sensor that the Kinect has but all of the current features being touted by kinect could be achieved without that IR sensor anyways. That IR thingie is very neat and all but it essentially just aids and so far isn't really being used in ways that really set it apart from advanced computer vision methods.

Just as an example I've seen a work in progress demo of a tool that uses a regular PC webcam to create a 3D model of a person's face.
The screen does some crazy colour flashing stuff but basically the right edge of the screen shines bright pink (or whatever.. I don't recall the actual patterns) which casts the light on your face a certain way.. then the other side, then the top.. etc etc.. the camera reads the pattern on colours shone on you and interprets the data to make a 3D model of your face.. then it wraps the model with your image as a texture map.

The guy working on it even had the software sense what areas were skin or hair, break them into layers and apply fitting texture shaders to make the hair and eyebrows and lips appear bumpmapped and give the skin a certain convincing soft look. (subsurface light scattering)

The area of computer vision is still in it's infancy and certainly the IR sensor on the kinect gives it some great possibilities.. but so far nothing so far above and beyond that Sony couldn't emulate it with their own camera.

@KeegdnaB

Well, if they did release a motion controller add-on for Kinect, it's going to be quite expensive. $150 for the camera and maybe $50ish for each controller in addition to that? Maybe even a nunchuck? I can't really see them doing that.

Kinect with a regular controller is pretty bad too. All you can really do is head tracking and voice control, which could be done just as well with a much less expensive cam/mic. The whole basis of their marketing is controller-less gaming, they aren't going to actually deviate from that any time soon.

@KeegdnaB

They'd have to pay Sony if they used a visual device to track a controller like the Move does because Sony own the patent for that tech at the moment. It's never going to happen.

Sony started on Move in like 2001. They stopped because the Eye Toy part wasn't selling well so they didn't think it could work. Nintendo got wind of their designs and reworked them using sensors instead of visual tracking.

Wii launches, Sony begins work on Move again, Microsoft freaks and picks up the only feasible option left, direct motion tracking of the human body.

@KeegdnaB You are the controller ?

Oh actually sorry no we were wrong, Your not "the controller" you need a controller and Sony and Nintendo were right all along, our technology sucks thats why we have had to create this addon peripheral that allows you to use buttons and for us to accurately track your hand movements..
.. Whoops sorry ?

Yeah absolute genius after a metric sh!t tonne of "you are the controller" hype and this is the future and this is leap frogging all motion controls on the market.. They have to then release a motion controller to actually give you accurate control of the game ?

Doesnt that actually prove the whole Sony marketing campaign right ? Even using the xbox 360 controller is an admission that the concept they were going for is complete bollocks. You are no longer the controller , it is no longer the future of entertainment, because you still need to use a controller..

Its called a catch 22, they dug themselves a nice massive hole..

Even if they were to release a new motion controlled controller, its too late to do it this gen, no one would buy it and it would flop hard and it would only re-affirm to the mass public that the Kinect was a horrendous terrible idea.. If they were to it next gen , what to stop Sony from adding an optical 3d tracking system to the ps4 and still using the same move controllers ? All they need to do is to link 2 ps3 eyes together and they can get a point of reference to do 3d optical tracking, in fact they have already set something like this up for advertising with a finnish firm.. Its not like they are changing their story, they are just adding a better camera for tracking..

@KeegdnaB

Uuuhhh...That would be incorrect. So far all the functionality that MS showcased at E3 has been done for years with the Eyetoy/PSEye. If anything it was not the technology but the software that actually failed. There were a few shinning examples that pushed the technology such as Harmonix's Antigrav that feature full body tracking 6 years ago. And that was even with the poor resolution of the Eyetoy cam.

At this point Kinetic is not revolutionary or even evolutionary at all. And, considering it is all software based (the hardware was tremendously cut in order to save costs) then things can easily be implemented via software patches. The only thing the Kinetic camera currently has going for it is a slightly better resolution and the dual lens assists in depth detection. Then again, you are paying $180 for an accessory that Sony has been selling for $40 for a while.

Now, will Kinetic have quality software? Only time will tell.

In the end let's be honest: Sony's strategy is much better than Microsoft's. With the Move Sony is trying to catch part of the casual market that Nintendo brought into video games by offering everything the PS3 offers, HD graphics, and a familiar control scheme. At the same time they are offering an alternative control scheme for hardcore players. If the casual software is good this will be a win- win situation.

On the other hand, Microsoft is trying to be the new "gadget" in town and counting that those casual players that jumped into the WII bandwagon will believe that no controllers at all is the next logical step, while offering also an HD alternative to Nintendo. However, no hardcore player will play Halo or Gears with Kinetic even if patches are released for those. Kinetic will remain exclusively a casual controller.

Sony's marketing with this site is smart. Of course they consider Kinetic the competition- both controllers come out in the same release window of the year. But the campaign is smart because it is highlighting what will be the major deterrent for casual players: presented with the two choices, a casual gamer will hesitate more to upgrade to an HD console with no buttons than to one that has a familiar control scheme.

@Moorbo
Wii Motion plus is failing for just this reason.

@oJMan240o
That's some nice revisionist history there.

@Lucky48
I never said the ps3 wasn't worth it, i just said Kung Fu Rider sucks.

@TraceurRyuk Prepping for LBP2

Though there is a bunch of other cool stuff on that site.