Fable 2's co-op shortcomings as explained by Molyneux
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"I think we're taking a poorly implemented feature in Fable 2 and really making it shine in Fable 3." Peter Molyneux's enthusiasm, equally infamous and infectious, doesn't necessarily extend into the past. The creative director of Microsoft Game Studios Europe guided us through Fable 3's improved co-op design during a Friday morning TGS session, eagerly contrasting new features with some earnest recollection of the previous game's shortcomings.
"Well, to be honest, the problem we had -- it was a bizarre problem -- is that every time you do something different, and this will sound horribly mechanical but it comes down to this at all times ... When you create a different version, then that needs a complete test pass," Molyneux explained. "So we had in Fable 2, because co-op came in quite late, couch co-op and we had [Xbox] Live co-op. We hadn't really planned for the fact that we were going to have to do a test pass. An entire test pass for the single player; an entire test pass for the couch co-op; an entire test pass for the Live co-op."
Intent on adding online co-op to Fable 2 within a limited time frame, Lionhead Studios essentially went for a prudent two-for-one deal: take the working couch co-op online. "We could save a whole test pass if we made Live and couch co-op almost identical in Fable 2, and we were kind of running low on time so we had to do that," said Molyneux. Since the game essentially believed it was running on one screen, both players had to relinquish control of the camera -- and one had to settle for playing as a generic impostor in place of a true hero.
In Fable 3, you're allowed to take your hero into someone else's game, along with your upgradeable weapons, abilities and fluffy, canine companions. You can marry your co-op partner, divorce them, go into a business partnership and even play pat-a-cake with them. And -- finally -- both players have a fully controllable camera. This is how the best internet romances start.
"Well, to be honest, the problem we had -- it was a bizarre problem -- is that every time you do something different, and this will sound horribly mechanical but it comes down to this at all times ... When you create a different version, then that needs a complete test pass," Molyneux explained. "So we had in Fable 2, because co-op came in quite late, couch co-op and we had [Xbox] Live co-op. We hadn't really planned for the fact that we were going to have to do a test pass. An entire test pass for the single player; an entire test pass for the couch co-op; an entire test pass for the Live co-op."
Intent on adding online co-op to Fable 2 within a limited time frame, Lionhead Studios essentially went for a prudent two-for-one deal: take the working couch co-op online. "We could save a whole test pass if we made Live and couch co-op almost identical in Fable 2, and we were kind of running low on time so we had to do that," said Molyneux. Since the game essentially believed it was running on one screen, both players had to relinquish control of the camera -- and one had to settle for playing as a generic impostor in place of a true hero.
In Fable 3, you're allowed to take your hero into someone else's game, along with your upgradeable weapons, abilities and fluffy, canine companions. You can marry your co-op partner, divorce them, go into a business partnership and even play pat-a-cake with them. And -- finally -- both players have a fully controllable camera. This is how the best internet romances start.
Reader Comments (33)
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:35PM Regault said
Now that they solved the problems they shouldn't have had in the first place, they can move on to having the same problems Borderlands and Lost Planet 2 did.
In other words, I fully expect quest progression to get screwed up in Fable 3 unless both players are in exactly the same spot of the campaign.
In other words, I fully expect quest progression to get screwed up in Fable 3 unless both players are in exactly the same spot of the campaign.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:25PM Ashkental said
@(Unverified)
Funny, I didn't have any problems with quest progression while playing Borderlands...
The only problem I really found was that the game was EASY, it was the freaking easiest game ever if you were 1 or 2 lvls beyond the quest lvl (wich is a really easy feat to do for the duration of the whole game if you're cooping). Borderlands 2 has to have some kind of Brutal difficulty or at least adjust the hardness of the game based on one's lvl.
Reply
Funny, I didn't have any problems with quest progression while playing Borderlands...
The only problem I really found was that the game was EASY, it was the freaking easiest game ever if you were 1 or 2 lvls beyond the quest lvl (wich is a really easy feat to do for the duration of the whole game if you're cooping). Borderlands 2 has to have some kind of Brutal difficulty or at least adjust the hardness of the game based on one's lvl.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:35PM jaydark123 said
After reading this, I am very excited for the improved co-op in this game.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:47PM Themoreyouknow said
@jaydark123
Not me. The last 2 were disappointing. No need to continue the tradition. Before I even remotely think about maybe purchasing the game I'm waiting till it hits $20.
Reply
Not me. The last 2 were disappointing. No need to continue the tradition. Before I even remotely think about maybe purchasing the game I'm waiting till it hits $20.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:02PM The angry pro consumer gaming ga said
@Themoreyouknow You're not the only who will wait for this to drop, then again between Reach, Fifa 11, LBP2, GT5, and Black Ops, the wait will go by pretty quickly.
Reply
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 3:07PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said
@jaydark123
Molyneaux is going to let you down if you go believing in him.
Reply
Molyneaux is going to let you down if you go believing in him.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:37PM monkey with glasses said
Fable 3, maybe?
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:38PM EffinNinja said
I'm really glad I pre-ordered this now.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:41PM Xoonaka said
Well, wait, the "couch co-op" sucked too. My girlfriend wanted to use HER character in my game, but it didn't allow for that... sounds like, from the article's phrasing, that's how "couch co-op" is intended to be, all all they fixed was online... is this true?
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:41PM cylet said
i love couch co-op. i can physically punch anybody who calls me a f*g.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:42PM TheBatman4141 said
Coming soon...Fable 3: Second-Life Edition!
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:45PM jgladeb said
Probably means that "couch co-op" is essentially out too though. I admit that the idea of a co-op RPG adventure, even as RPG-Lite as Fable 2 was, is a great prospect and caused me to pre-order it. I don't regret having done that, and there were some good times to be had with the co-op in Fable 2, but there was so much missed potential. And perhaps not quite enough to do for two players...
With two playable heroes, and independent camera control, I assume means that couch co-op is out? Replaced with Xbox Live online only play... I somehow doubt that those of us who enjoy local co-op play will be getting split screen or something like that with Fable 3. If they confirmed that, they might just have another pre-order on their hands!
With two playable heroes, and independent camera control, I assume means that couch co-op is out? Replaced with Xbox Live online only play... I somehow doubt that those of us who enjoy local co-op play will be getting split screen or something like that with Fable 3. If they confirmed that, they might just have another pre-order on their hands!
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:46PM StrikeFear13 said
Shortcomings.. It's like the word was MADE for Molyneux.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:49PM Integral said
Sounds like a true improvement. Hope they deliver. Molyneux has great ideas that don't always pan out lol.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 1:53PM sigma8 said
I can't wait until Fable 4 is announced, so we can hear Peter tell us why Fable 3 sucked.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:04PM PR0F3TA said
Will this be on PC... i'm guessing no
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:05PM Petebot330 said
Do we have confirmation that this game won't bore you halfway through?
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:23PM KillaPat said
"you're allowed to take your hero into someone else's game, along with your upgradeable weapons, abilities and fluffy, canine companions. You can marry your co-op partner, divorce them, go into a business partnership and even play pat-a-cake with them. And -- finally -- both players have a fully controllable camera."
Can you really do all those things, or did they just tell you that you could do all those things?
Can you really do all those things, or did they just tell you that you could do all those things?
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 3:06PM BlackedOut said
Sounds like it.
Trust me if you've followed the Fable series for as long as I have, you can tell the false promises from the features that actually sound realistic.
We are just talking about a few emotes, cut scenes and features that exist in most good co-op titles.
Reply
Trust me if you've followed the Fable series for as long as I have, you can tell the false promises from the features that actually sound realistic.
We are just talking about a few emotes, cut scenes and features that exist in most good co-op titles.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:38PM Hysteria in HD said
Fable is a pretty cool guy. He fights bad guys and isn't afraid of anything.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:44PM Deschain said
I won't believe a thing Molyneux says till I see it and play it.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 2:52PM Heston said
I know it's sorta blasphemous to criticize Molyneux and Fable around here.. but I mean, fool me once, twice or thrice? I was fooled twice.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 3:04PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said
I have respect for what Pistol Pete Molyneaux has accomplished in his illustrious career but he is pretty much full of s.hit on everything he says or promises. It's always one unfufilled promise after another with him. Put it this way: Whatever new feature he is promising for Fable 3 won't materialize until Fable 4. There's a difference between vision and ideas, and their actual execution.
Molyneaux just needs to be the idea man but implementation needs to be left to others who can get the job completed in a timely manner. Lord knows he takes forever to make a game ... that doesn't live up to his grandiose claims.
I love the fact that Molyneaux is a perfectionist and a dreamer but he is in a category with Kazunori Yamauchi when it comes to development times. The difference is that KazYam actually delivers on his promises.
Fall back into a consultants role Mr. Molyneaux. Come up with the ideas ... nothing more, nothing less.
Molyneaux just needs to be the idea man but implementation needs to be left to others who can get the job completed in a timely manner. Lord knows he takes forever to make a game ... that doesn't live up to his grandiose claims.
I love the fact that Molyneaux is a perfectionist and a dreamer but he is in a category with Kazunori Yamauchi when it comes to development times. The difference is that KazYam actually delivers on his promises.
Fall back into a consultants role Mr. Molyneaux. Come up with the ideas ... nothing more, nothing less.
Posted: Sep 17th 2010 6:56PM Yojimb0 said
What this game really needed was more solid, combat scalable mechanics. It was so easy to develop a just unbeatable set of magic spells and just continuously murder, the combat became utterly trivial towards the end. There was also a severe imbalance: magic was so much more powerful than ranged or melee, it made no sense to invest anything into them. Also, because you gained xp based on which skill you actually used, I just got more and more deadly with the same thing, and never branched out into the other skills.
Also, loot.
Also, loot.
Posted: Oct 11th 2010 2:32PM fablefan1 said
i hope there will be split-screen co-op it would be so kool.
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