An alleged Valve employee seeking to air grievances with his employer and one specific employee has taken to an anonymous blog titled "The Truth About IceFrog." In it, the person -- supposedly working on "an unrelated project" from "IceFrog" -- describes not just a poor working environment with the Defense of the Ancients co-developer (whose real name is said to be Abdul Ismail), but also details "something fishy" regarding his past.
Though "IceFrog" apparently told colleagues and Valve execs he never worked at S2 Games -- developers of Heroes of Newerth, a DotA clone -- a handful of online evidence suggests he did at one point (DotA co-developer Steve "Pendragon" Mescon even outright states as much). Furthermore, the anonymous blogger likens "IceFrog's" actions to being "the CEO of McDonald's (DOTA) looking for a job at Burger King (Riot Games), then working for Fatburger (S2 Games), then quitting and going to work for Wendy's (Valve) but outright lying to Wendy's (Valve) of involvement with ANY previous employer," adding, "In the corporate world, this would be the equivalent of stealing trade secrets." As announced this morning, "IceFrog" is currently working on Dota 2 for Valve.
When we contacted S2 Games to confirm whether or not a man named Abdul Ismail or "IceFrog" ever worked there, we were repeatedly told, "No comment." Valve representatives didn't mince words, saying only, "It's fake," while League of Legends developer Riot Games offered, "At no time did Abdul Ismail, or anyone known as 'IceFrog,' work at or for Riot Games in any capacity." Now if you don't mind us, we can't fight the sudden urge for a fast food burger. If you've got first-hand knowledge regarding any of the accusations, feel free to drop us a line.
Reader Comments (32)
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:43PM gamerkim28 said
Drama
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:05PM Kid Icarus said
@gamerkim28
seriously 'Stiq, does this need to be reported on?
Reply
seriously 'Stiq, does this need to be reported on?
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:28PM Mike DPad said
@gamerkim28
Damn right... drama drama drama... This sounds like desperation from Riot and S2 games.
"same as stealing trade secrets" - This is the video game industry, there are no secrets regarding what makes gameplay fun. You can easily find out by PLAYING THE GAME and copying the mechanics that work. This is not new...
Reply
Damn right... drama drama drama... This sounds like desperation from Riot and S2 games.
"same as stealing trade secrets" - This is the video game industry, there are no secrets regarding what makes gameplay fun. You can easily find out by PLAYING THE GAME and copying the mechanics that work. This is not new...
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 7:01PM Paradox Control said
@Mike DPad
Riot Games makes money hand over fist on there game. I really don't think they're worried about Dota 2. HoN has it kinda worse in that they don't have a F2P Marketing Strategy making them money hand over fist. But they have a stable competitive community that probably helps them stay afloat.
IMO If Dota 2 isn't a F2P game then most Dota players are going to either stick to Dota or keep playing LoL like they currently do.
Reply
Riot Games makes money hand over fist on there game. I really don't think they're worried about Dota 2. HoN has it kinda worse in that they don't have a F2P Marketing Strategy making them money hand over fist. But they have a stable competitive community that probably helps them stay afloat.
IMO If Dota 2 isn't a F2P game then most Dota players are going to either stick to Dota or keep playing LoL like they currently do.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 7:54PM GuardianLegend said
@Paradox Control
As a LoL player, I'm pretty excited for DOTA2. Built-in voice chat, presumably great graphics. Good enough for me!
I do wish the "Denying" tactic was left out of the game though. As the league of legends website says regarding that: "Killing your own guys? Really?"
Reply
As a LoL player, I'm pretty excited for DOTA2. Built-in voice chat, presumably great graphics. Good enough for me!
I do wish the "Denying" tactic was left out of the game though. As the league of legends website says regarding that: "Killing your own guys? Really?"
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 8:38PM gamerkim28 said
@GuardianLegend
Denying is definitely a questionable aspect DOTA in a "realistic" sense, but from a completely RPG gameplay stand point it makes sense. Whoever gets the killing blow gets EXP.
Not to mention there are other questionable stuff in DOTA like destroying building randomly makes your creeps stronger.
In the end, it's a game with magical creatures and attacks. These sorts of things are hard to justify, lol.
Reply
Denying is definitely a questionable aspect DOTA in a "realistic" sense, but from a completely RPG gameplay stand point it makes sense. Whoever gets the killing blow gets EXP.
Not to mention there are other questionable stuff in DOTA like destroying building randomly makes your creeps stronger.
In the end, it's a game with magical creatures and attacks. These sorts of things are hard to justify, lol.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:44PM oxfordfishsalon said
*has no idea what's going on*
Is there some problem that the guy worked on similar games with different companies?
Is there some problem that the guy worked on similar games with different companies?
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:51PM Smugleaf said
He also revealed that episode 3 has been ready for release for the last 2 and a half years! No? Ok then.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:53PM Protome said
This guy wrote a bunch of these about different people. Mass trolling really.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:53PM gatotsu911 said
Alright, what the hell, Joystiq? Why was my comment blocked?
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 5:56PM warmonk said
@Brockobama123
I agree. Need more verification than "this one blog by an alleged Valve employee said so" before you post this stuff.
I agree. Need more verification than "this one blog by an alleged Valve employee said so" before you post this stuff.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:09PM Twyst said
Wow, first EA Louse and now this.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:24PM context said
This is the reason why there is such a thing as company secrets. We don't care if the people making the games are nice, good, cheats, kind w/e. We want good games and if there is seriously something wrong with an employee, he will get fired.
We really don't need this kind of unnecessary drama. If 3+ people walk away from valve because of this guy there is a story; otherwise we all just get annoyed and irritated over nothing about a guy we don't know
We really don't need this kind of unnecessary drama. If 3+ people walk away from valve because of this guy there is a story; otherwise we all just get annoyed and irritated over nothing about a guy we don't know
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:40PM BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam said
@ccc
Wendy's food is pretty good and tasty, but also quite cheap.
Valve's games are pretty good and entertaining, but also quite cheap (well, when they do their rather-frequent crazy-ass sales).
Wendy's food is pretty good and tasty, but also quite cheap.
Valve's games are pretty good and entertaining, but also quite cheap (well, when they do their rather-frequent crazy-ass sales).
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:44PM BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam said
OK, guys... I wrote this piece.
And that was a lie, I didn't write that. I don't even live anywhere near any of those studios. My point is, though, since it was written annoymously, there's no credibility behind its words. That writer could be anyone, not necessarily who they say they are. That writer could even be posting on this here blog. It could be me. It could be you. It could even be
And that was a lie, I didn't write that. I don't even live anywhere near any of those studios. My point is, though, since it was written annoymously, there's no credibility behind its words. That writer could be anyone, not necessarily who they say they are. That writer could even be posting on this here blog. It could be me. It could be you. It could even be
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:58PM Kid Icarus said
@BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam
don't say it.... DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT.....!!
Reply
don't say it.... DON'T YOU DARE SAY IT.....!!
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 7:20PM RobS the 3rd said
@BPMOmega XBL PSN Steam
*BLAM!*
What? It's obvious, he's the fake blog poster.
Watch, he'll turn fake any second now.
Reply
*BLAM!*
What? It's obvious, he's the fake blog poster.
Watch, he'll turn fake any second now.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 8:47PM KentuckyFrydCow28 said
@BPMOmega XBL PSN
I'm not the Phantom! I'm the Slayer I swear!
Reply
I'm not the Phantom! I'm the Slayer I swear!
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:52PM Drakkenfyre said
Wait, a Valve employee complaining about Valve? Woah.
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 6:56PM asamohthpesoj said
BUT HE NAMED NAMES
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 7:15PM ch3burashka said
Even if he did, what would be the reprecussions? As far as I know, he's the official unofficial owner of DotA; can't he do whatever he wants with it?
Posted: Oct 13th 2010 11:42PM wcarnation said
Pretty sure it's fake, when it comes to Valve games and DOTA games there's always a truckload of butthurt in tow.
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 1:34AM zsavior said
This wreaks of Riots sabotage. Look up Pendragon and Milkfat. That being said, so what. None of what is put out makes me not want a valve game any less.
I do like league of legends, but the community is horrible, and there is no attempt to make it better. I think some people in the Dota yard are scared, simple as that. The way this is handled is hilarious in its attempt.
"Abdul(Ice Frog) is hard to work with." That is it, that is all this guy says on why we should hate him. The rest is an out and out smear campaign, of accusations of stealing secrets. I see no names named, I see nobody called out, the only person used as a reliable source is SHOCK! Pendragon.
Who has been the loudest opposition to valvue and dota2? Riot game developers Pendragon and Guinsoo. So to sum up, I should take the word of an anonymous man on the net. Who just happens, to site Pendragon the rival company to valve's Dota game as the grand evidence against Icefrog . Icefrog who is now developing Valve's Dota game, is taking valve into a dark evil evil place. BAWWWWWW!
Between now and 2011 it is going to get really interesting.
I do like league of legends, but the community is horrible, and there is no attempt to make it better. I think some people in the Dota yard are scared, simple as that. The way this is handled is hilarious in its attempt.
"Abdul(Ice Frog) is hard to work with." That is it, that is all this guy says on why we should hate him. The rest is an out and out smear campaign, of accusations of stealing secrets. I see no names named, I see nobody called out, the only person used as a reliable source is SHOCK! Pendragon.
Who has been the loudest opposition to valvue and dota2? Riot game developers Pendragon and Guinsoo. So to sum up, I should take the word of an anonymous man on the net. Who just happens, to site Pendragon the rival company to valve's Dota game as the grand evidence against Icefrog . Icefrog who is now developing Valve's Dota game, is taking valve into a dark evil evil place. BAWWWWWW!
Between now and 2011 it is going to get really interesting.
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 3:04AM The Wicker Man said
He needs to shut his whore mouth about Valve.
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 9:22AM derdaim said
Is this a new meme or something?
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 1:39PM hahnchen said
Shouldn't have given this the time of day. It screams of bullshit.
So IceFrog has apparently no social skills yet manages to domineer a project? IceFrog has complete control over the project, yet Erik is the lead? Valve would betray its cabal ethos for this new guy?
And it ends with a ridiculously poor characterisation of trade secrets - gameplay cannot be copyrighted, and its because of this, that games have flourished to such an extent. It allowed others to build upon and further concepts found elsewhere, there's an incredible cross pollination of ideas that can be found in the gaming industry, free from the poisonous patent trolling which infects the rest of tech.
IceFrog has clearly made enemies, but this hasn't come from someone on the inside.
So IceFrog has apparently no social skills yet manages to domineer a project? IceFrog has complete control over the project, yet Erik is the lead? Valve would betray its cabal ethos for this new guy?
And it ends with a ridiculously poor characterisation of trade secrets - gameplay cannot be copyrighted, and its because of this, that games have flourished to such an extent. It allowed others to build upon and further concepts found elsewhere, there's an incredible cross pollination of ideas that can be found in the gaming industry, free from the poisonous patent trolling which infects the rest of tech.
IceFrog has clearly made enemies, but this hasn't come from someone on the inside.
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 6:34PM Silenus said
I imagine there's a variety of people who are saying that it was underhanded of IceFrog to do such a thing and that their just like every other big video game producer. I.E. evil.
But, forgoing the question of whether this is simply a negative ad campaign since marketing firms got discovered for falsely upselling as actual consumers, there remains a big question.
Did anyone think that perhaps S2 had a anti-competition clause in all employment agreements? I had one in telemarketing firm that "prevented" me from working for any other call centre, telemarketing or not, for six months. Kind of made it hard to get a job in my neck of the woods.
So IceFrog would "fail" to tell their superiors of this guy's previous employment so that if S2 came along and sued them for hiring him Valve could simply claim ignorance.
But, forgoing the question of whether this is simply a negative ad campaign since marketing firms got discovered for falsely upselling as actual consumers, there remains a big question.
Did anyone think that perhaps S2 had a anti-competition clause in all employment agreements? I had one in telemarketing firm that "prevented" me from working for any other call centre, telemarketing or not, for six months. Kind of made it hard to get a job in my neck of the woods.
So IceFrog would "fail" to tell their superiors of this guy's previous employment so that if S2 came along and sued them for hiring him Valve could simply claim ignorance.
Posted: Oct 14th 2010 10:39PM Vay1en said
Well, it appears IceFrog didn't work for ALL the companies making that kind of game. He got turned down by Riot...
I don't think Guinsoo and Pendragon are anti-Valve as much as they don't want Valve making money off their work. I can see the merit in this. Valve should make their own spin on that genre. It shows a lack of creativity to hire one of the "guys" who worked on DotA Allstars and then try to act like it's owned by Valve. Games like HoN, LoL and DemiGod are influenced by DotA but they are NEW games. Valve owes it to us players to not just port an old game with newer graphics. Make us a NEW Dota-esque game, Valve!
I don't think Guinsoo and Pendragon are anti-Valve as much as they don't want Valve making money off their work. I can see the merit in this. Valve should make their own spin on that genre. It shows a lack of creativity to hire one of the "guys" who worked on DotA Allstars and then try to act like it's owned by Valve. Games like HoN, LoL and DemiGod are influenced by DotA but they are NEW games. Valve owes it to us players to not just port an old game with newer graphics. Make us a NEW Dota-esque game, Valve!
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