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Reader Comments (66)

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:37PM Cleric said

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@KobaltKode

I imagine most of the people didn't even play it. That seems to be the game journalist comment section's motto for any journalistic site. "Well didn't like it so it's shit. I didn't need to play it, some guy with a website told me it was."
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 5:04PM Pandaman said

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@KobaltKode
I actually somewhat agree with this point moreso than this weird stream of backlash comments. This is a blog syndicating an answer to a question as its own separate news story; a common occurrence but still in need of greater context.

That said, it's difficult to separate your artistic decisions from the final product as the creator sometimes. That's just the way it goes. But sometimes I would rather play a challenged game that offers the control to myself, than a seamless game that lays out its challenges in a linear fashion. I do applaud Spector for making something that isn't another 3D platformer that's actually just a 3D game on rails.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 5:27PM Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell said

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@KobaltKode

It's not what you say but how you say it. Spector is doing it wrong.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 6:56PM KobaltKode said

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@Johnnynumber5 is powered by cell
Wow, I really hope that all of you hit that source link and read the article in full! I gave it a solid read through and honestly feel that his context was gravely misquoted! He shouldn't be catching this flak, joystiq quoted him in a way that I feel is unfair.

"And I will go to my grave, imperfect as it is, proud as hell of my camera team. If reviewers want to give us a hard time about it because they're misunderstanding the game we made, it's not for me to tell them that they're wrong, absolutely not. But I wish people would get it out of their head that we made a 'Mario' competitor, because we didn't."

The statement that seems disrespectful is encased in a statement backing his team and happens after a paragraph or two about how his game straddled genre's making it harder to make the camera work. Meaning that his saying reviews misunderstanding his game had to do with them viewing the camera as a platformer camera.

Joystiq you lost cool points in my book today!
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:22PM MasterYogurt said

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Isn't this exactly what they said about APB? That worked out really well for them.

No 3D platformer has a perfect camera. The Mario Galaxy games didn't. It doesn't matter. If you have a mechanic that doesn't work as expected, then it's your fault, as a developer, for not educating people why that mechanic works as it does.

I'm sure Epic Mickey is great regardless of its flawed camera. It's a runaway success, at any rate.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:23PM ch3burashka said

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@MasterYogurt
Direct quote from right before it went under:
"I hope people will remember APB for what it was supposed to be, as opposed to what it was."
LAWL.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:22PM ch3burashka said

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AW HELL NAW.

Blaming the reviewers/consumers is NEVER the right thing. For God's sake, you're Warren Effing Spector: own up to your mistakes!

This has tainted my view of him for a good long time.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:29PM wcarnation said

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If you think the camera is an issue, you've likely never played a 3D platforming game while growing up.

It happens.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:39PM whatthegeek said

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I love it when developers don't like what reviewers have to say, and they leap instantly to "You're playing it wrong". Epic Mickey got a lot of good press - the dev team should take pride in the things they did right, and learn from the things that went wrong. Covering your ears and screaming "LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA" isn't an effective way of dealing with negative criticism.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 4:42PM DevilSei said

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Wasn't Super Mario 64 an action platformer, supposedly just like Epic Mickey? Didn't its camera work well?

Its not a case of people "not understanding" your game, its you not understanding cameras. In a way, I'm somewhat glad he wasn't attached to the new Deus Ex game, specially if this is going to be his attitude towards a bad mechanic.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 5:06PM Mr Khan said

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@DevilSei

Mario 64's camera definitely worked better than Epic Mickey's. I mean, i've played games that have been lambasted for bad camerawork before, i love the 3D Sonic games, for instance, but this camera goes completely inert all too often. Mario 64 had an absolute failsafe in an over-the-shoulder camera mode, but Epic Mickey's failsafe first-person mode is often inoperative too.
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Posted: Dec 8th 2010 5:08PM Mr Khan said

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Ugh. As i've said before, i have a high tolerance for supposedly "bad" camera work. Bad camera was a complaint about Sonic Adventure 2, that i'd right the second-best game of all time, but in this case i actually agree with the reviewers

It's not a case of slow camera, it's not a case of awkward camera controls, it's a case of this camera just doesn't fricking move way too often. I've had to make way too many blind jumps towards the screen

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 5:53PM Nook said

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The pic is great for this post Justin. Awesome.

That's a pretty ignorant statement to make regarding breaking any camera in any game, specifically calling it out like that.

I'd like to take Mr. S up on that bet. I'll bring my pile'o'games and he can bring his. Multiple consoles, covering multiple generations. Open genre.

The wager?

1 million dollars, that's right...1 mmmiiiiiiiiilllion dollars.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 8:31PM Fuzunga said

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I guess Warren Spector has never played Super Mario Galaxy. That has a pretty damn good camera from what I can remember.

Posted: Dec 8th 2010 11:00PM miacosa said

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Poor excuse early previews from E3 and on until the games launch claimed the camera was bad. They didn't fix it now their placing blame that the design of the game is such and such. Well look here it was made like that by you and the game didn't turn out has well because of it. Don't go and put down your client base because of it. It's like Apple telling you that the phones antenna isn't bad your just holding it wrong.

Why do guys like Warren and even Tim keep bombing at retail with games that don't quite cut the mustard these days and people keep looking back at the past when they made okay games and claim how great they are. I think these guys are the film industry equivalent of an M. Night Shyamalan they had a moment in the stoplight but now they just make mediocre to bad games.

Posted: Dec 10th 2010 1:41PM KentBrockman said

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It's true that cameras are often a problem in games, but obviously it's worse in this game than in others since so many reviewers have criticized it in this game and not in others. So therefore, it is a valid complaint and not one that can be brushed off so easily.

To say everyone misunderstood his game is ridiculous. I could see if people were "misunderstanding" something about the gameplay or the story or the progression, but camera is not something you can misunderstand.

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