BioWare responds to same-sex romance complaints about Dragon Age

@Faren22

Actually the asari are sexless beings who just happen to look like hot blue human babes (or do they... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q15SK25WH0w&t=0m45s). So the FemShep-Liara relationship is not technically gay.

@harusame
I know they've said that, but it's a pretty cheap technicality to allow them to slide "not gay" by on. Whatever else Shep is, she's human, and to a human, the asari are female. They look female, they sound female, they effectively identify as female, and so a human who is attracted to one is either a) attracted to their femaleness, or b) not that irked by it. To me, it's actually one of the more offensive things they could have said or done--it's fine for asari to be attractive women for all intents and purposes, until the main character of the game is also female, and then her attraction to them is SINCERELY NOT HOMO, YOU GUYS, because technically they don't count as female. It becomes so incredibly important to establish that Shepard is straight that we have to pretend that the feminine identity built for asari over two games does not actually exist for the characters in the game world. It's -so - important to them that a character whose entire life and personality you can customize has a fixed sexual orientation, that we need to pretend it's totally straight for a woman to be attracted to feminine features, as long as we call them something else.

@Faren22

I have a complain with dragon age, it doesn´t allow threesome!!!! I mean come on!!! they need to make us all happy!! why my female shepard got the finger when she proposed a threesome to one of the guys, that´s not good bioware!!! :D

@(Unverified)

There was a threesome in Dragon Age. Actually, a foursome if I recall correctly.

@Fullmetal Salchemist
You could have even more than a foursome if you mod...

>_>

@Irem

I think you're being silly here. It isn't like Bioware made Asari single-gendered because they wanted to avoid the whole "gay" thing. They had lesbian romance in Jade Empire years before.

Instead, I think they wanted to make the Asari "different" and interesting. I mean, its bad enough that the galaxy is miraculously filled with bipedal creatures who all share visually similar features (1 head, 4 limbs, 2 eyes, etc). But now I'm supposed to believe that these creatures all have matching genitalia?

By your logic, I should be able to have a gay Shepard coupling with Wrex, too. I mean, its so unfair of Bioware to assume Krogan don't have suitable genitals for male/male relationships!

@JCDoe
I would believe that if they had, in fact, made them different. If they had actually wanted a non-gendered race, they could have easily created one in something other than name.

Everything about the asari is designed to telegraph "hot woman" to the player. It's even stated in the ME1 artbook that they were designed to be "a race of beautiful 'green alien girls.'" The initial character designs for them look even more definitively feminine than the one they eventually settled on. Whatever they are within the universe of Mass Effect, they are meant to be women to the player. What they are saying (asari have no gender) and what is appearing on the screen (they're hot chicks) are two wildly different things. That's the problem, and that's why I have a really, really hard time believing they were desperate to make them 'different' and that just nicely matched up with the fact that they think Shepard's sexuality is, like the presence of the Reapers, one of the great immutable truths of the Mass Effect story. So no, I don't think I'm being silly.

BioWare has a pretty progressive history, but that doesn't excuse BS when it happens. I expect better from them, which is why I call this stuff as I see it. Mass Effect is probably their most mainstream title. Women getting all over each other while simultaneously avoiding implying that they're exclusively homosexual is both non-threatening and titillating to their target demographic.

@JCDoe
And to further clarify, it's not asari being non-gendered that's bad, in and of itself. It's using that as a magic wand to wave away the fact that being attracted to one calls FemShep's sexuality into question. It's literally a case of, "But you're a woman!" "No, actually, I'm not!" "Oh, well, then all my problems with it are gone!" If Shepard is with Liara, it's probably safe to say that she finds her attractive, and has no problem with her extremely feminine features. Male Shepard is never any less straight because Liara isn't "really" a woman.

@Billlop

Why was this man downvoted into Oblivion? I thought he spoke the truth!

@Ventus Saying you "don't agree" with homosexuality is kind of like saying you don't agree with people being black.

@Billlop

You "don't agree with homosexuality?" What does that even mean? Homosexuality is not an opinion that you can disagree with. That's like saying, "I don't agree with people that are shorter than 5' 6".

@pranaferox Hmmm ... that's funny.

My cousin's gay and would say that it is proudly be choice that he is so -- not some genetic make up that he can't help.

You seem to disagree and think that gay people "can't help but be gay." Is that what you're saying?

And if it is, in fact, a choice - then this Billop guy can choose to disagree with it.

@chrisrackley lol it's a choice? So you can actively choose if a male or female arouses you?

Try it. Let us know how it goes.

::sigh::

@original fred Not really. I am fine with Homosexuality, But I can understand why people arent, And its their choice. Because in truth Homosexuality is unnatural, And I don't mean this in the offensive way. I mean it in the Literal way

@JONNNathannn Sorry, John -- are you gay? Do you know? Do you have close friends that are gay? Relatives, perhaps? Or are you bottom-feeding off crap being fed to you.

I didn't say it was a choice -- I said someone who I'm close to says it's a choice and that they're proud of it.

Also, Ellen DeGeneres has said it's a choice.

@chrisrackley
I'm bisexual and I have over a dozen gay friends, they are all absolutely repulsed at the idea of being with someone of the opposite sex. I don't really care if your friend says he chose to be gay, biologically and physically, it was never his decision. We may not know what the "gay gene" is, but we do know how a gay person develops mentally and physically differently then a straight person.

@chrisrackley
That's fine for your cousin and others like him who "decide" to be attracted to members of their same sex but all the homosexuals that I know (I do a lot of theatre so I know a LOT of them) have been attracted to members of the same sex for as long as they can remember.

The only "choice" they made was not to try to be something they are not.

@Claws I get what you're trying to say but if it occurs in nature, it's natural. It's not "common", but it's most certainly natural.

@chrisrackley My best friend is gay. It's most definitely not a choice.

@Billlop

C'mon guys, it's his opinion that it isn't a choice. Therefore, he sees it as immoral and his choice is to disagree with it.

You can go back and forth on whether or not it's a choice, you'll always have people on opposite sides of the spectrum who will argue until the end of time. Besides, he never actually said it was a choice, he merely stated he didn't like it. He didn't even use the word hate or try and shove his views down your throats. Gimme a break. ::rollseyes::

@Claws It's not unnatural at all, in fact. You can observe homosexuality in many species large and small. It's usually a natural response to over population. . . Just sayin'

@chrisrackley
The problem is with what YOU are saying. You offer only two options:

a) homosexuality is genetic
b) a homosexual must at some point consciously choose to be so. Probably because he hates america or something.

You assume that because a) is false, that b) is true. However, nobody with any real knowledge on the subject is saying either of those things. Fox News doesn't count.

Quick theory - as with every other aspect of the human character, sexuality is most likely shaped by the influences present in your upbringing. When you persecute gay people based on some 'wrong choice' they made at some point, not only are you completely misunderstanding the issue, you're discriminating against freedom of choice. I'm not gay or American, and I love freedom.

@Claws
Trying to claim that homosexuality isn't natural when it happens all the time in nature just ridiculous.
Look up bonobos for only one out of many examples.

[Ed: First warning. Keep it on topic.]

@Haggard
the debate has moved on since I clicked reply. Nevermind.

@chrisrackley Here's an awesome video of Ellen Degeneres saying homosexuality is a choice. Good work, soldier!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NZoN-LXxI

@Billlop

Did it ever occur to ppl that maybe us who are gay are born that way for a reason. It could be Nature's own way of population control.

I knew i was gay since like the age of 5. Trust when you have an attraction to boys at that age you pretty much know whats going on, even if you dont accept it till later on in life.

Im glad to be gay, and i wouldn't change it. It's hard at times but being gay is nothing to be ashamed of.

@Mixer23

No. That is like saying, oh, this person thinks people who are black are stupid. But he is "respectful" about saying it, and isn't forcing it down anyone, so leave him alone.

Well no.

Why should we tolerate people who are discriminatory towards others, whether it is for religious reasons or not? Why do we not tolerate this with other things but do with homosexuality?

At everyone: I myself am not homosexual or bisexual. But I am ASEXUAL. I *lack* sexual attraction at all. I can tell you this now; no one could pay me to feel sexual attraction. I don't care if this developed as a child or I was born with it. No its not "normal" but so what? Its perfectly natural because it happened naturally.

I am fine with this. But if anyone said to me I'm choosing asexuality I would just laugh in their faces. I didn't even realize I was asexual when I was younger; I assumed everyone pretended to want sex and were privately like me. I thought I was straight. Which is now clearly nonsense. But does this sound like a CHOICE? I didn't choose it; I just AM, and I can't change it.

@Billlop

"Im sorry but being "gay" is directly linked to your upbringing, your enviroment, your basic awareness. Its nothing at all to do with a "gene"."
[citation needed]
This is known as the bald assertion fallacy.

"I dont agree with Homosexuality because it is unnatural."
Please research the matter before you talk again. It's everywhere and is definitely not isolated to humans.
Also, this is the "argument from nature" fallacy

"If everyone was gay we would all die out as a species within 100 years."
But, here's the thing: everyone's not gay! :D

"Just because you read some activist article on a news site or just because you think its edgy to think of Homosexuality as a gene doesnt mean you are correct. "

While studies such as Alfred Kinsey's call into question the commonly held view of a dichotomous sexuality in the majority of people no one can reasonably argue that it's a choice unless we go back 50 years into the past and ignore every scientific and sociological investigation into both human and non-human sexuality.

@original fred

As queer myself, I fully recognize that it may be upbringing not genetics. I mean, the same would hold true for hetrosexuality. I mean it may or may not. It doesn't bother me whether my queerness is caused by upbringing or genetics; I just KNOW that no matter how hard I try to change it, I can't.

@Claws

The thing is, it is such a moot point. Being natural doesn't equal good. So why do people talk like it suddenly does? No their body parts don't fit together. So what is the point?

Our entire world we live in is "unnatural". One of the great things about humanity is that we have circumvented nature. We have all of this great technology. And yet people are still convinced that our sexual relationships must be only straight?

Let alone the fact that that is wrong anyway. What is natural is what happens in the physiological world. And in the physiological world, some people are gay, straight, bi, ace etc etc etc (too many queer types to list). These people through their existence are natural human beings; their likes, dislikes etc are all natural too.

@Windmill

Trust its not the upbringing cuz if that was the case i would have been straight. My father is homophobic to the max. I had to hear about it growing up all the time.

It made it hard on me to know i was gay and to hear my father say such hateful things.

@Claws

So what, you think homosexuality is a gene? How is that spread, exactly?

@Bronxchulo

My parents have also been very hurtful against my sexuality. It is not your parents being homophobic etc that would determine it. It would be lots of little things that you don't even realize that would leave to it. Like a lot of things its probably a mixture of genetics and upbringing.

This is not to say I am saying you can just choose; I have TRIED to change but can't. I am ace and that is just that. Its not leaving me.

@Claws

So what, you think homosexuality is a gene? How is that spread, exactly?

The main point people are trying to make here is "everyone can make choices, freedom is awesome, your lifestyle is totally up to you, but if you think I'm wrong you're an idiot." Does no one see any contradiction in this?

@CorneliusPrime128

Sorry, that's @originalfred

@CorneliusPrime128

Actually, there is genetic evidence for homosexuality. It could be a recessive gene. It could be a mutation [which doesn't make it bad, considering it is through mutations that humanity was created], or gay people could just have had straight sex. I am ace and I am in a relationship with someone who is straight.

@Billlop You can't prove this either way and you're a moron for even thinking you could.

@Claws I'll say it again. It is natural as it happens in nature all around us and it definitely natural in humans. Just because gay sex doesn't lead to procreation doesn't make it any less valid as sexual expresion.

[Ed: First warning. Keep it on topic.]

@CorneliusPrime128 I think its nature an nurture.
Basically I think genes can affect it, However I think the way you're brought up is a big factor too.

@CorneliusPrime128 I think its nature and nurture.
Basically I think genes can affect it, However I think the way you're brought up is a big factor too.

@Windmill Im not gonna carry on with this you guys are taking what im saying too literall annd im not very good at explaining things so...

@Billlop I was tempted to vote that one up because seeing someone self-destruct is HALarious.

@Mixer23 - Like someone said earlier, saying you don't "agree" with homosexuality, or that you don't think it is a "choice", is akin to saying that you don't agree with black people, or think that their being black is a choice.

Are there people out there that have sex with members of their own gender despite not being sexually attracted to them? Sure. Does that make them biologically gay? No. It is a choice for them, but the choice is having sex despite the lack of physical attraction, not the choice to be attracted.

As always (to no one in particular) if you don't like the content of a game, don't play it. If you don't like the content of a game, don't let your children play it. They are your children, to instill whatever backwards values you want into them. Don't try to limit the choice of rational adults to satisfy your irrational fear and/or hatred.


(Femshep forever)

@Billlop

Oh but we do, because as much fun as it would be to ignore losers like you, it is people like you that result in a lack of basic rights for queer individuals. It is also people like you that make being open about ones sexuality a sh*tty experience. So as great as it'd be to ignore the stupidity, we can't.

Theres a reason every single pre-modern religion (because modern religions fully support homosexuality) condemned homosexuality, and its the same reason they were all racist, cruel and sexist too.

@Billlop
Scientifically, homosexuality is unnatural, it's been proven that in many scenarios, homesexuals became so due to a traumatic experience usually encountered in their childhood. I'm not saying we should burn them at the stake, but no I don't agree with their choice. Not going to target them however.

@Claws...Can u please clarify what is "natural" and "unnatural" and what source u quoted this from