Hackers claim discovery of PS3 'private key,' enabling unauthorized code [Update]

@phinn
SONY cant fix this with a firmware update. SONY can't even fix this with a new hardware update. SONY can't fix this period.

@phinn

Pointless?
Do you realize that those jailbreaking devices are currently disabled with the newest firmware? and that also thanks to that update those scunnf ags aren't be able to PSN?
I'm certainly glad.
(In contrast with sbox live, where anyone with a modified drive can sign in and play online with a pirated copy)

@eNriqeu you do realize I was referring to the many useless PS3 updates with almost no new features to evolve the consoles capabilities since 3.0 came out 1 1/2 years ago. Sony has almost completely ignored their own PS Blog Share website.

@phinn The blog share site was designed to give Sony an idea of what people want, not as a direct line to their ears, Just because you askf for it doesnt mean it has to be done, or even if it does happen it doesnt mean it happens at the snap of your fingers.

I wonder how "useless" you'd think this potential update is if people start using aimbots in CoD and completely imbalancing online games with other "homebrew apps".

@phinn you call security updates pointless? If Sony doesn't do anything about piracy then the PS3 will die like the PSP did

@eNriqeu Why do you care if people with pirated games are playing on PSN? Honestly, who gives a shit? Is it really going to effect your gaming? If anything, wouldn't it enhance it, with you likely getting into a full game a lot quicker?

I just don't see the point of Sony constantly trying to win a battle that they will ultimately lose. You know what I told my brother-in-law when he asked me what the newest firmware update did? "Oh, it makes it so that the PSN is not functional for the people who hack PS3s". You want to know what he asked after I said that? "The PS3 can be hacked?" Sony is only making it a public announcement, and honestly I think most people who are going to pirate would sacrifice the lack of PSN for a hacked PS3.

@mywhitenoise

I can tell you why I care.

First, I don't want to have to download a 100+MB download just to browse new games in the PSN store.

Second, I don't want to buy a game like Uncharted 3 and have the multiplayer get hacked like The Conduit was on Wii, which would really sour the overall experience.

@phinn

The reason this has been possible is because sony decided there you need to use a random number in the algorithm, they forgot that bit, and use the same number every time.

This is one of the biggest hardware security failures i've ever seen, and sony should seriously be considering who they've hired to write this stuff.

It's genuinely funny just how bad these flaws in the PS3 security system are.

@liam.

How bad the flaws in the security system are? Seriously? You do remember how long it took for hackers to hack the PS3 right? If this was the PC it would be hacked in a week. If it was Wii or Xbox360, it would be hacked within a year or two. It's INCREDIBLE how long the PS3 was unhackable. To say the security is bad is incorrect.

@mywhitenoise

The reason why people care is because they want an honest, fun experience online where competition is fair and where lots of games are released. Piracy tends to ruin systems like trophy systems where you can just hack as many trophies as you want. Additionally, they hurt game developer sales and thus make it so less games are released that are good. Less good games = less developer interest = the death of your console. Look at the PSP and PC. You NEED to care about piracy if you want to have access to more good games.

@phinn

Speak for yourself. Are you telling me that adding 3D gaming and 3D movie playing capabilities were useless?

I dislike people that make pointless comments constantly complaining about little things, you just can't be happy for new features unless those features are only ones that benefit you.

Sony has done a tremendous job with PSN and I am very happy about the progress they achieved. There will be more features coming so let's stay positive.

And if you feel that some features are missing then go to their forums and let them know.

I am hoping for following updates in 2011:
Cross Game Chat
Game Data Saved on the Cloud so that it can be easily accessed from other PS3 when you sign into your account or if your PS3 data gets corrupted.
Getting a better Browser on PS3

@pickupdoctor Yes, I am not only saying adding 3D support was useless, I'm saying it's completely and utterly useless. I know absolutely no one with a 3D TV. Maybe I don't know enough rich people but people I know have just bought decent 1080p 120Hz TVs and won't be buying a new one for at least 5 years, PS4 will easily be out by then. I am calling 3D utterly useless and stupid.

On the other hand things like a new web browser that actually works well, cross game voice chat, auto-read messages on notify with PS button, improved party features, improved interface, and auto-sync trophies would have actually been GOOD features everyone could use.

@pickupdoctor

I agree in general... but the 3.41 update was completely useless. They should have held onto that one until they had more to go with it.

@Arikado

Back to Board Games.... Who wants to play Monopoly?!?!?

FYI: I lost the "thimble"... its ok tho, you can use the "cheese puff" in its place.

@sonicspike41 - If I'm understanding this hack correctly, you shouldn't need to ever update because of piracy again, because Sony can't do anything to block this. I could be completely wrong, but this seems akin to having the master key for DVD encryption, which content holders were never able to gain control over once DVD John released it into the wild.

Then again, there are maybe ten people on Earth that know what this actually means, and I'm not one of them. The big question is whether or not this key enables the decryption of firmware updates, which is the one thing hackers haven't been able to do thus far (IIRC). This would mean games like GT5 would be playable (firmware 3.5) and possibly games on future firmwares.

Either way, it sounds like this is going to make USB dongles unnecessary, which is going to open up PS3 modding to a lot more people (enabling a lot more piracy).

@BananaBoat

I think your first part is correct. With this key you can sign your own programs and the PS3 will run them as if it were retail. And they can't change the key because that would cause all the existing software to stop working.

@PhilipJWitow
Look
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/02/dont-count-on-modding-your-xbox-360-microsoft-exec/
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/11/xbox-360-the-most-hack-proof-console-ever/
Year or two?
The 360 took less than 6 months to get it hacked, the slim is already hacked, and they are able to go online and play "back ups" without a problem.

You have to recognize the effort Sony is making to prevent their console getting hacked is enormous and amazing.
and I have no problem with futures updates as long as they disable hackers and modders from going online and poisoning our PSN community.

@Vidikron - After watching the video, I get the impression that this is even worse for Sony than I had thought. They are unable to revoke the keys, because this team is now capable of supplying their own revocation list (if I'm understanding correctly). Basically, there is nothing Sony can do on that front.

What I've taken from the video is this: All of the private keys can be broken (due to a non random number being used) but that they haven't all been yet (notably lvl1 isn't busted yet). This doesn't seem to matter however, because they can sign their code, and run it at boot time, without the need of a USB dongle or anything like that. Lvl1 doesn't seem to properly do its job, and having lvl2 broken wide open essentially means you have complete access.

I'm sure this team knows what this means for piracy, but I can't really wrap my head around it. It seems like this will mean the endless release of new firmware, and then the decryption of that firmware (ala the PSP) but no one made any mention of whether or not firmware is still a useful security method. It could very well be that this exploit sits deeper in the console than firmware, and that custom firmware is a given.

I have a feeling that the PS3 has been blown wide open. It sounds like nothing Sony can do (since they can't break older consoles/games) will ever be able to plug this hole. This is a huge blow to Sony, and it seems like it is entirely their fault for not properly using the security tools they implemented. That doesn't make piracy okay, and the console still remained unhacked longer than any other consoles, but it is definitely something for Sony to think about before the next gen.

@PhilipJWitow Watch the videos and tell me if you still agree :)

Noone was hacking because noone was looking. The majority of the hacking skills don't come for the benefit of piracy. They come for the benefit of functionality. OtherOS gave them all they needed. Once Sony took that away, they started looking deeper.

@phinn


And the funny thing is that with this maybe sony will finally start selling some serious numbers of ps3......Honestly did anybody really thought that the ps3 was pirate-proof????

@sonicspike41 I agree with you, I don't want my ps3 to be like my psp. If this results in my codblops multiplayer game being spamed by killstreaks like attack dogs, i will hunt down these nerds and stone them!

@PhilipJWitow
"Piracy tends to ruin systems like trophy systems where you can just hack as many trophies as you want."
Considering the PS3 was just hacked, I don't know how you can already declare this will ruin it? Also because you said trophy over achievement you clearly don't know any of the other services outside of Sony's and you don't knwo how the other ones deal with said hackers.
It's real simple, they ban them/reset everything they unlocked.

It's pretty obvious who the hackers are based upon unlocked time stamps and the fact sites have leaderboards that track this stuff and no human being will ever magically pop up out of no where on the very top on any of these boards as the top players for these various systems have completed roughly over a hundred games.

@Arikado

They can actually, just like with the PSP GO. they have to release a new system without the same security flaws. So basically a new ps3 slim

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze

I also like how they claim the "PS3 totally failed in security," but it took them four years to make any significant progress on hacking the PS3.

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze right?

Every software mod is meant to "allow homebrew". But that's just to save face, or not present the mod in the wrong light.

Even tough PS3 games are rather large in size, it's still only a matter of a couple hours to DL them. It'll still happen if a mod is figured out.

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
Your comments amuse me as you clearly have no knowledge on the subject. Like the Wii homebrew they opened up previously they could but choose not to endorse any sort of piracy nor to do anything to help it flourish. People who followed in their footsteps and replicated their work did that. Regarding the time it took to hack the PS3, they didnt start looking at the PS3 until the release of the psjailbreak (a piracy device). Before then, they were all busy with other projects and weren't even planning on looking at the PS3.

@Arikado
how the hell do you know? who the hell are you?

@Arikado
you make it sound sas if no one's ever tried to break the PS3, honestly if there was any lacking in the effort to do so it's because of the system's high price tag and the possibility of bricking a system beyond repair. Wiis are a dime a dozen and the xbox for all it's fancy parts is still just a PC.

And yeah sure these guys claim it's only to get linux to run but there's be such a flood of piracy if this is true that you'll feel the earth's axis tilt. Let them adjust this hack so it ONLY allows Linux to work and lets see how many people complain then.

@Arikado

I admit it. I have little knowledge of the hacking scene and the losers who populate it.

Though, strangely enough, I think I'm okay with that. =)

@PN04 You do know that the Cell processor is the only processor from this generation used for actual computers right? It's a database/mainframe chip.

The PowerPC based chip the Xbox 360 uses is custom, on a custom architecture, so is the GPU.

@Playos

Why did they put a server processor in a video game console? Do they know how games work?

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
lol

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze What exactly makes a hacker a loser?

@BiggRapp313

He's Alucard in disguise, everyone knows that.

@BiggRapp313
http://code.google.com/u/@UBBVQVRVBBVCVwF8Fg%3D%3D/ has some of my work. I talk to the people behind this just about every day.

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
If you dont believe the hacks aren't designed purely to enable homebrew and run Linux, explain why the first hacks came about only a month after PS3 Slim was released without the ability to install OtherOS. Then explain to me how several months after removing OtherOS the "PS3 Hacking Scene" exploded.

@Arikado

I have no idea what the **** you just posted.

@jynxycat - Believe it or not, there are well intentioned coders out there, working on the various consoles. When the Wii was first hacked, piracy wasn't even allowed. The team that hacked the Wii was pretty staunchly anti-piracy (I think they still are. Homebrew channel doesn't have an iso loader built in after all) and refused to share their methods. It wasn't until others came along and built those tools that piracy became possible.

I understand what you mean though. The homebrew scene of a console (with the exception of the original Xbox, which had the very worthwhile Xbox Media Center) never really gets to the level where all of the piracy and cheating comes into perspective. If they get can Linux working with full GPU access, and essentially turn the PS3 into a full fledged computer, it will definitely be a silver lining, but obviously it will have come at a high cost.

@BananaBoat
Realeasing a public hack that doesn't have a manager or a loader included and think no one is going to use the hack to enable game piracy is just beyond stupid.

@BiggRapp313

He's one of the more notable members of the Wii Homebrew Scene. Joystiq, I am ashamed.

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze "I have little knowledge of the hacking scene and the losers who populate it."

Yeah, cuz gaming hobbyists are society's elite. You got to love a dweeb from one phylum disparaging dweebs from another.

@That Darned

man, get your fat ass off that cooler and toss me a dew. i needs it to wash down all this majestic orange powdered goodness.

@Raffi256 Last I checked Graphics cards are being used to run Super Computers and servers.. So whats the point in buying really expensive graphics cards to play games ? Yes thats how stupid and ridiculous your point was..

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze Its not. They havent decrypted the blu-ray keys and they don't plan to. The hack is designed to run Linux, which Sony so wisely *removed* the ability to do so from their firmwares which initiated the effort to create this hack.

@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
The reason it was not done before was because other os was there, Most people do not realise how much the feature was used for example there is was a client released so people could run world community grid on there PS3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Community_Grid)
Also if you would watch the video's you would see how sony totally failed and could have easily prevented this particular discovery.

Man, everyone who upvoted Firenze (a loudmouthed ignoramus who either didn't watch the video or just didn't understand anything in it) and downvoted the guy trying to explain how programmers think is a complete knucklehead

Just figured I'd drop in and make that clear in case it wasn't blindingly obvious

@Bolts

"Man, everyone who upvoted Firenze (a loudmouthed ignoramus who either didn't watch the video or just didn't understand anything in it) and downvoted the guy trying to explain how programmers think is a complete knucklehead"

obviously the ps3 market base is more users and less programmers.

@BubbRubb What?! You aren't excited to run LINUX?!