Tool-assisted speedrun shows Super Mario 64 beaten in five minutes

hello

There are three catagories for speedruns. Actual speedruns, and speedruns using every glitch in the game, and speedruns using every glitch in the game, and tool assisted.

Is the last one interesting? Yes, from a glitch point of view. Does it show skill? No. The skill involved is finding the glitches.

Afterwards, just programming an application with essentially a macro, and the limit of human input is basically to start the tool, and hit B when appropriate, isn't skill.

You post a video like this as an interesting video on tool-assisted runs and bugs? Fine. You post a video like this and brag about your skill? You have no skill.

Note, the author of the video didn't claim skill, I am just saying I have some people do that.

@Drakkenfyre
Yeah definitely not like that one Japanese guy that legitimately beat SMB3 in like 9 minutes. Sure he used flutes but that video was still amazing.

@Bewoulf: That was tool assisted as well.

I'm really tired of everyone thinking that SMB3 video was legit. It wasn't.

@Drakkenfyre

"Note, the author of the video didn't claim skill, I am just saying I have some people do that."

So you're making a general rant about something that doesn't take place here? Seems odd and misplaced. Sure from a gaming standpoint it doesn't stand on the usual pedestal, but this is really just something someone did "for fun". I know that's a crazy concept these days, but finding all the unique little glitches and making the programming macros is fun in all of itself. He's not competing with you or I for speed trial, but his peers. There are entire online communities built around this you know. This is really for them to admire, Joystiq just happened to pull it outside of that circle where some (like yourself) don't know how to appreciate it for what it is, instead compare it against what you think it should be.

@Drakkenfyre I agree as this video is just so silly to view. I'm not too sure on what the hell I just watched, but I laughed at it.

Hacks aren't skill.

@Punkrawk Bbob

As usual, you fail to read. If you had read above my post, you would see I was replying to someone.

"This is disqualified for being tru pro"

"There are multiple types of speedruns, some have this, some have that. If you try to claim skill (which these guys aren't), you fail."

Another fail by you. Try reading more than just my post next time.

@JeremyVersion1
It was tool assisted? How? All of his maneuvers looked legit.

@Bewoulf

Tool assisted means a program inputs all controls instead of a person holding a controller. More precise and error free then

@Drakkenfyre

I truly do love you. I wish you could comprehend basic logic though. I replied to you bitching about tool assisted runs, quoting you... Yet somehow you don't get it. Here, again... Take note with your general talking down to the people who made this video, that it's nothing to celebrate (which is funny because I'm sure you've done a whole whopping nothing with your life)

"Is the last one interesting? Yes, from a glitch point of view. Does it show skill? No. The skill involved is finding the glitches.

Afterwards, just programming an application with essentially a macro, and the limit of human input is basically to start the tool, and hit B when appropriate, isn't skill."

@ArtemisGone
I agree that you cannot compare there kind of runs with regular ones, but I still enjoy watching tool-assisted runs because it shows the fastest possible time for a game, theoretically you could play through the game like this without tools helping you (If you were superhumanly fast at pressing buttons and had perfect timing).

@ArtemisGone

Also would probably be more legit if they weren't using emulators.

@ArtemisGone That's why these are called "tool-assisted speedruns" and not "true speedruns."

@ArtemisGone
Problem is you're putting pure Speed Runs in the same category as TAS runs. They're completely different things.

Speed runs are a show of pure skill. To show how good you are at a game and how fast you can complete it (preferably on the actual console, just to be sure to have the most authentic experience possible, since emulators do occasionally change some things). A good speed-runner is very impressive and fun to watch as you know that he's actually doing the crazy stuff you see. And sometimes they even manage to go faster than TASers (normally by using glitches, but never cheats).

TAS runs, on the other hand, are made for entertainment and to find the limits of a game, and hopefully break said limits while still finishing the game. Finding glitches that would be nearly impossible to execute while playing the game normally is probably a lot of fun for TASers (or gamers in general really), and it's fun to watch too. TAS runs require a LOT of work as well. Sure, it looks like the game took 5 minutes to beat, but, in reality, those 5 people took months to make that run, trying to find the best ways possible to save even single frames. A good TASer, or a group of them here, is just as impressive as a good speed-runner in regards to their dedication to taking a game and pushing it to its limits and finding even very simple tricks to go even a slight bit faster. (TAS runs also never use cheats, though they DO do some things that can't be done on the actual consoles, like pressing left and right at the same time)

TAS runs are NOT the same thing as normal speed runs, and taking them as such is just missing the point entirely/being stupid. They're not made for the same purpose.

@ArtemisGone
They're not presented as legit. It's purely for entertainment, showing what could be done by a perfect player.

@Misanthropic Gamer

I'd much rather actually see a speed run by someone using the tricks rather than a macro version. I mean really what's so fun about this? just enter a code and jump straight to the end, because that's about what this amounts to. just with 5 minutes of useless blipping through levels.

@PN04 Yeah, no. The amount of dicking around required to find the exploits needed to get through the game in the first place is where the work goes. If you're under the assumption this is the result of "entering a code," please spare people from showcasing your lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

For me this is analogous to a video of someone "speed running" chess by reaching across the table and placing a few pieces to checkmate the opponents king. You aren't following the rules set by the game if you are being aided by software, and playing the game on an emulator. You might as well be memory editing yourself into a victory state.

Having said that, I'm not sure what glitches they were exploiting exactly. Some sort of speed up glitch (that could be a memory edit for all we know) that magically seems to direct Mario exactly where the player wants him to go at all times, even through walls. I think this is one of those cases where a "how we did it" video would be more interesting than the actual video.

@jobocan

No one should know as much on the subject of competitive video gaming as you clearly do . . .

@BananaBoat

Something like this is nothing like reaching across a chess table and putting pieces next to the king.

For that analogy to work this video would be about 5 seconds long, showing mario teleporting straight to the game over screen from the new game screen.

@Phoenix654 - Gameshark had this excellent code back in the day where Link would levitate in OOT (slowly gaining height) as long as a button was pressed. You'd be surprised how many games don't have any sort of check for when the player can proceed to an area beyond "did they enter the area? Yes? Okay, they're good" (for example, you can levitate right out of Kokiri Forest to begin the game, and beat the game while Navi is still saying "The Great Deku Tree would like to speak with you")

As for what was done in the video, a lot of skill (or a lot of tries...) was shown in what little gameplay was actually done. Beating Bowser's levels from a side view, without stopping or getting damaged (beyond one time when he hit the lava I think) is quite a feat. The only problem is that we can't know how many tries it took, or what help he had, since it is on an emulator. Depending on what exactly the glitch was doing, it was also potentially pretty amazing that he could direct Mario during the glitches without sending him out of the map, or something like that (then again, if it was just a memory edit happening, it isn't as impressive beyond showcasing their ability to find memory addresses).

@BananaBoat the re-record count (411,111) was listed at 1:03 in the video.

@Yuglyoshi
Actually- there is the reverse bottle adventure for the zelda games. It's not as fast as the mario one, but it breaks the game just as much (or possibly even more). It's using a bunch of glitches to get all required items without ever entering a single dungeon except ganons castle.

@EvoHelix

long jump in reverse. You can do it in the game without use of macros, it just takes a little while to get down.

@Psychoplasm - It took me and my sister over a year to get all 120 stars. The experience is still up there as one of my favorite childhood (gaming) memories.

@The Cole Train
Mario came to the castle to get cake to begin with, then after he rescues her THAT's when she decides to make a cake? Then that must mean the cake was a--

@PN04 - MacGuffin.

I think Mario went for the cake, and stayed for the pie, if you know what I mean.

@PN04
The original "lie"

Also, Peach signs her name twice apparently

@Nolan North

America has known her as Princess Toadstool, while Japan knew her as Peach for awhile. This was the first game to be released in America with her named Peach, so it's been retconned her full name is Princess Peach Toadstool.

@Drakkenfyre
Still doesn't change the fact that she signed the letter like this:
Princess Toadstool
Peach

@Gritzor I don't hate them for using tools. I am just saying its not skill and its not news. This has been done for 4+ years now. Why dose this need to be on joystiq? Again. If I take doom put on no clip god mode and hack to the end of the game would you want to see that at a place you go to for game news?

@sethern69

That's a silly comparison. A crap ton of effort went into putting this together. It's not like they just put in a cheat code.

@sethern69
Just that noone hacked the game here. Everything done here is possible within the game engine, and AFAIK it IS the world record. You could do this without tools at the N64, it's just that no Human could get the timing down precise enough to do it. The skill here lies in finding the glitches, figuring out how to use them in a speedrun, and using that knowledge to create the most effecient possible route. Basically a normal speedrunner would do the exact same thing, just that he is limited by what a Human can do.

@hanst99 Wait using tools is not hacking? Doing anything to make the game run different is hacking. They slow down the game thats hacking. It is no different than god mode or no clip. First you say that someone could do this without tools then you say that no human could get the timing down.....

But I don't care that they hacked. I am asking why is this news? Its cheating and been done before. Again I saw this back in 2007.

@PersonOfSorts I don't care how long it took them to do this. Its not news. Go take a look on youtube its been done before. This is not new. I saw this in 2007. Second using tools is no difrent than hacking. anyone with time and the tools could do it!

@sethern69
They slowed down the game just to find exactly when to press the right buttons. You can dowload a file which contains only the key presses and run it in your emulator to prove that it doesn't change the game code. It is still theoretically possible to do this without tools on your own N64 if you are fast enough, which also proves that the game wasn't hacked. This run is featured becuse most people find this new run, the current fastest, hilarious to watch.