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Reader Comments (196)

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 9:58AM lagomorph said

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@MrAhh

Let's refrain from snideness. How about this? GeoHotz knows that what he's doing has an immediate and assumed negative use (piracy). It's not like he's giving people a car and saying build a car and then expecting them to go and fumble through several designs before someone eventually finds something dangerous and illegal to do with their "lego" pieces. He is fully aware that there is one step between "car" and "harmful item". He's giving them something that is, for all intents and purposes, dangerous and telling them only to use it for the purpose which he intends. I think the proof of this is in his repeated insistence that he doesn't condone piracy.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:04PM Courtney said

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Holy crap, I had no idea about the background behind GeoHot, dude's freaking awesome. He's accomplished more at 21 than most of the engineers at Sony will probably achieve in their lifetimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz

http://members.forbes.com/forbes/2007/0723/060.html

Even before becoming known for all his hacking, he was building some amazing stuff and winning international awards for it.

Also, according to his site he's going to be on G4's Attack of the Show tonight.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:15PM EDZiLLUH said

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like dude in The Social Network said not in these exact words but he said they should look up to him because he pointed out holes/flaws in their security system.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:22PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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Credit where its due, the kid is a hacking genious, however, I can see this causing problems for Sony and the PS3 so it's reasonable for them to take the bull by the horns. People may think its excessive, but based on how deep he's gotten and his determination to not keep it to himself but tell everyone how to do it is more than enough reason to prevent him from doing so.

Doing it in the privacy of his own home for fun is his business, but telling everyone else how to do it is mass distribution.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:34PM Mentality said

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Sony messed up themselves and didn't disguise the key in one of the legal documents THEY released, which means it's now public domain anyway.

Twitter.com @KaKaRoToKS

Sony's Second Epic Fail. See page 247 of Court Document 4 (Exhibit T). No need for TRO, The keys are now public domain! Thanks Sony! haha!

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:38PM origosis said

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I am a PSN+ subscriber so I wouldn't want to hack my PS3 anyways. Lotsa free games for $60 a year. I have only been on for 3 weeks and the free keeps on coming. (This was probably part of Sony's plan for PSN+ a slight piracy deterrent?)

Now that does not mean I don't want to see it get hacked (more) But At this point I can take it or leave it.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:40PM Mentality said

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I have checked the document myself and it is infact TRUE, Sony are stupid. Which means I can do this -

erk: C0 CE FE 84 C2 27 F7 5B D0 7A 7E B8 46 50 9F 93 B2 38 E7 70 DA CB 9F F4 A3 88 F8 12 48 2B E2 1B
riv: 47 EE 74 54 E4 77 4C C9 B8 96 0C 7B 59 F4 C1 4D
pub: C2 D4 AA F3 19 35 50 19 AF 99 D4 4E 2B 58 CA 29 25 2C 89 12 3D 11 D6 21 8F 40 B1 38 CA B2 9B 71 01 F3 AE B7 2A 97 50 19
R: 80 6E 07 8F A1 52 97 90 CE 1A AE 02 BA DD 6F AA A6 AF 74 17
n: E1 3A 7E BC 3A CC EB 1C B5 6C C8 60 FC AB DB 6A 04 8C 55 E1
K: BA 90 55 91 68 61 B9 77 ED CB ED 92 00 50 92 F6 6C 7A 3D 8D
Da: C5 B2 BF A1 A4 13 DD 16 F2 6D 31 C0 F2 ED 47 20 DC FB 06 70

And Sony can do nothing, because they released the documents holding the keys without hiding them. There for they themselves have made it public domain (Public knowledge for the lesser known) and cannot stop anyone from sharing them.

Go nuts.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:52PM MrAhh said

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@Mentality Wow that makes you a modern day hero dude. I for one are so proud of you. What are you going to do next with that big list of numbers and letters? Make a t-shirt and some mugs. Or better yet run around posting it every where you go that will sure show Sony who's boss.

I can bet my last dollar that fools like above are prancing around the internet right now without nearly the mental capacity to even begin to put that key into actual use posting it everywhere to show Sony who is boss. I sure love internet thugs.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:13PM Bardbarian said

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@Mentality

It's getting to the point where if you are a shareholder then you need to be calling for a top-to-bottom firing of everyone in charge over there.

The idiocy displayed by Sony throughout is astounding; from the random number not being random to the BS abound in the filings, the now public domain keys, PayPal donation, screenshot with the username not blacked-out...is it ever going to end?

If you have your credit card info stored in your PS3 then you should delete it ASAP. These people are just too dumb to be trusted with it.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:16PM Mentality said

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@MrAhh of course. You are such a knowlegable and intelligent person, I am so sorry for the mistakes I have made I feel like such a terrible person. I will go away and think about my actions.

If I was a hacker I wouldnt be posting here I wouldn't have thought. I never claimed to know how to use the letters and numvers as you so cleverly put it, I was simply pointing out the massive error that had been made by Sony's Laywers by making the code public domain meaning there for it is freely distributable.

Clearly you didn't understand what I was doing here and you sir are an idiot.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:19PM Mentality said

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@Bardbarian I know it is crazy that these are the people that we trust with our information. My PS3 hasn't been online for a long time. Hasn't even been turned on if I am honest. With the hacking etc I would probably be inclined to take my details of there anyway.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:33PM Bardbarian said

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@Mentality

I'm honestly so convinced of their ineptitude that I turned my PS3 on and deleted all of my billing/personal info.

NPDRM ain't stopping nobody for long and with the keys to the castle being public domain it's only a matter of time before there's a fully stealthed CFW which stops the boot checks and histories and leaves everything vulnerable = blu-ray firmware, Game OS as a whole, the store, online play, etc.

Sony is only making things worse at every single turn and it's mind-boggling to witness.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 5:39PM Mentality said

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@Bardbarian With custom firmware design comes great responsability, and you don't know what the developers could code into there to send your details elsewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy custom firmware and reap the benefits of certain homebrews and developments. But I would be damned to put any personal info on there if I was to install it.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2011 10:45AM JCDoe said

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@Mentality

There is a way to submit a legal document and hide its contents from public view. It's called having it "sealed."

I'm surprised they didn't seal this document when they submitted it. There is no good reason to put this in the public domain.

If I were Sony I'd be pissed at my lawyers for this.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:40PM ShingoEX said

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"there's also evidence that Sony sent $1 to Hotz's PayPal account through his email address"

If that's the case, then Sony is technically guilty of supporting them.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 3:40PM DVecc said

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Sony's a bitch and should stop trying so hard to be the best

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:17PM Mentality said

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I know it is crazy that these are the people that we trust with our information. My PS3 hasn't been online for a long time. Hasn't even been turned on if I am honest. With the hacking etc I would probably be inclined to take my details of there anyway.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:23PM Scuffles said

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So since the code will always be but a google search away, does that mean sinister phase two is to sue google out of business ?

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:28PM Zarbon said

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People have the right to run whatever software they want on the hardware they buy. Sony is wasting everyone's time and money on frivolous BS!

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 4:43PM Zarbon said

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Now Hotz has their encryption keys and their dollar!

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 5:21PM johndrinkwater said

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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 5:26PM Chichok said

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By Sony responding, they're only showing to everyone that the hackers indeed got it right therefore more exposure. I think Sony should just pull a Microsoft and be silent and then slap all the hack users with a ban in one wipe. Too late now.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 5:57PM Spunky Monkey 190906 said

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I don't slapping the users with a ban and ignoring the issue would make it go away, Geohotz wants attention, whether or not Sony gave it to him, he'd still be distributing the keys to the hack.

The fact he didn't just simply demonstrate his ability to hack PS3 and leave it at that, but went on to distribute it afterwards before Sony even filed the restraining order, goes to show that theres a bit more to this than one might think.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 6:32PM iceveiled said

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Oh Sony....seeking a lawsuit isn't going to change the past or fix the embarassing hole in your security. Live and learn.

Though Q4 2010 was rough so I can see why they are seeking money.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 6:48PM Danjcb said

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I don't like the way Joystiq seem to be PRO-hacker...

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 7:32PM Anticrawl said

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@Danjcb

Good, and you should dislike it. Because people like me love it. And the reason a country like America was so successful is because they subscribe to the have your cake and eat it too philosophy. Conflict is not only unavoidable, it is ESSENTIAL! It is the single cause of growth, expansion, innovation, and the general betterment of all things. How boring the world would be if we had not the capacity to think differently. I'd be shocked if we got past the discovery of fire.
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Posted: Jan 14th 2011 7:03PM Danjcb said

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@Anticrawl
And here come the PRO-American Comments coz of my rant at a moron earlier... Fantastic...
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 6:48PM Danjcb said

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@Lucky48
I agree... you've probably read my rant earlier...

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 7:12PM Danjcb said

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@Lucky48
It really did... to be honest, I'm not that proud of it, but I'm not someone to give up, it's just the way I am. Especially when someone makes stupid comments that don't even make sense and are unjustified. That's why its useful to do a LOT of background research about things you are arguing... Ah well... I'll just wait for my ban to appear...

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 7:29PM Anticrawl said

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When a game has released I've worked on and feel confident in I welcome people like Geohots. I say bring it on gamers, break my game. You'll have your work cut out for you because my job was done correct and this thing is air tight. If you prove me wrong fantastic! I'll know how to do a better job with the next title, I'll add it to my list of areas to work on in the titles I help develop.

How the hell do you folks think standards for gaming consoles are set anyway? The conflict between consumers and producers of course!

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 8:57PM Jacksons said

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@Anticrawl Not even close to the same thing. Once a person buys your game, you've succeeded. You got your money. They can wreck it all they want, what do you care?

Instead, assume someone found a software vulnerability that allowed anyone playing World of Warcraft, a game that makes its money off of subscriptions, to play on the official servers without a paid subscription indefinitely. What would Blizzard do? Throw their arms up and say "Oh well, we'll try harder next time, go ahead and use our servers for free!" Hell no, those servers would be shut down immediately until they found a solution. Thankfully, Sony hasn't taken any drastic measures, but I would not be surprised in the least if Sony distributed an update that checks for any of this illegitimate code upon connecting to the PSN, then disabling that system from the PSN permanently.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:12PM Anticrawl said

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@Jacksons

What the hell are you talking about. I work in the game industry, when they break my game GOOD, because I'm working on patches for said game to make sure the user has the best possible experience. If I missed something someone is bound to find it, better it be the hacker community - a benevolent force - that publishes their findings rather than an underground group that would keep it to themselves and profit from it. The hacking community keeps us on our toes, and keeps our minds open to look for issues in new titles and future updates we wouldn't have thought of before - to ensure a richer and more secure experience.

If you were driving a car, one you planned on owning for 10 or so years and some enthusiasts tearing the car apart and modifying it found a fatal flaw that could potentially kill you down the road you would be against them performing their work and publishing the findings? Sure it could lead to illegal car modifications being installed easier but it could also lead to the safety of a few lives.

I just don't understand how folks like you can be so narrow-minded. And for your benefit me being a part of a project that released something with fatal flaws would cost me my job and potential rehiring for new projects. I prefer to be proactive however and use my conflicting community to expand my knowledge and skill.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 8:35PM Jacksons said

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This guy is a terrorist. How many people at Sony are having to feverishly get a solution on the table before more damage is done? How many are working overtime? How many are miserable at their jobs or losing sleep because of George's stupid attention whoring? I hope this asshole gets prosecuted.

People never seem to think about who their actions will affect anymore...

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 8:47PM Zarbon said

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@Jacksons

That's a rather serious accusation.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:16PM Anticrawl said

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@Jacksons

Think of how many people are being hired on to fix this security issue. New jobs = good thing. The sacking of folks who didn't do their job properly should be a good thing.

At what point does personal responsibility come in to play, if the coder knew there could be potential software venerabilities they likely documented and reported said issues. If the company chose to ignore them (which is 90% of the time the case) and release the product instead - assuming the consumer isn't wise enough to find it then it is clearly the fault of an executive. We employees aren't complete jackasses. I make sure to document all issues found that were ignored before a product releases to cover my ass when the corporate big-wigs come down on us asking why this happened.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:22PM Jacksons said

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@Anticrawl
"Think of how many people are being hired on to fix this security issue. "

Zero. You know this.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:42PM Anticrawl said

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@Jacksons

I know it is more than zero. I know for a fact that their team is swamped with work and they are constantly hiring new people. Just check the job listings on the internal site for Christ's sake. The software version number is up to 3.55. The number of updates for the PS3 has been truly impressive. But clearly the pace of work they have kept up is an indication of an intentionality incomplete rushed system. Perhaps people who don't understand how the world works should not partake in such discussions. There is a reason your highschool teachers teach the same subject and never grow further. Such a liberal isolated environment removes much conflict and stifles the creative inquiring mind.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 10:14PM ferret said

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@Jacksons

you're out of your mind if you equate this with terrorism. absolutely out of your mind.

we should have the right to do anything with the hardware and software we buy. that's what it means to OWN something -- you can do with it as you please.

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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 8:46PM mcnichoj said

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lol
>Go on PayPal account one day
>See a $1 transaction from a person named Sony
>Think nothing of it and go about my day
>They try to use it as evidense in court

That's like putting something you own in to someone else's house and claiming they robbed you.
Sony is one of best trolls in the industry.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 8:48PM TCJJ said

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I just want to see these guys get fined loads of money and stopped from hacking. I don't want to pirate PS3 games but others do. The only real reason I want something to come of this is just so that I can say "shame".

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:18PM Machiavellian79 said

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This is really looking desparate on Sony part. Its like some exc said "Hey, the PS3 is exposed and there is nothing we can do about it." Then someone else said "Oh well, we can always go the lawsuit route. Even if it dosen't succeed we can put the fear of GOD in those hackers".

You look at the steps Sony is going through and you shake your head. All they are trying to do is cause some finiacial problems for this guy by taking him to court probably knowing it will result in failure. Since those corporate lawyers are already on the payrol they might as well earn their keep.

Posted: Jan 13th 2011 9:46PM Anticrawl said

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@Machiavellian79

This is exactly right. They will keep the matter in court until the poor guy is financially drained and far more punished than anything a ruling in court could do. They couldn't care less about winning the case, they have next to no court costs and attacking an individual to set an example is very effective. I wish judges had the balls to throw cases like this out of court, they are going to ruin this guys life without him having ever done anything wrong - and without any legal ground to stand on.
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Posted: Jan 13th 2011 11:38PM Bardbarian said

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I'm not sure that people fully grasp the mistake which Sony made which lead to all of this: The PS3 is secured in a wonderfully magnificent manner which has all been completely undone by the fact that someone made a mistake which is so amateurish and idiotic that any first-year student studying the underlying theories could've fixed it in seconds flat with a search engine derived copy and paste.

Sony's undoing was math...a bit complex of an equation but math all the same.

If you even remotely grasp the basic concepts at play here which lead to the 'hack' it confounds the mind as to how it could slip by into final hardware/software and NOT be fixed. (realize that Sony is several hardware revisions into the PS3 cycle)

It matters not whether you love or hate hackers or cheaters or Sony or you mother dearest...Sony completely and totally botched this in revision after revision after revision.

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 12:11AM JCDoe said

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Did anyone read the legal brief filed by Sony to get a preliminary injunction? Its very logical, consistent, and based on a mile long trail of legal precedent. I don't really know how anyone can argue that Sony /shouldn't/ get an injunction. At least, based on current US law and precedent (whether Sony is "right" or "wrong" depends on your ideology).

Geohot is one arrogant sunnuvabitch if he thinks the court is going to side with him.

I bet fail0verflow is pissed off that Geohot dragged them down with him (although they had to realize someone was going to use their published method to crack and post keys on the net).

Posted: Jan 14th 2011 5:17PM BanditKing said

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Seriously I hope Sony buries this guy alive in legal paper work, self inflated, egotistical A-hole that he is. Hackers should not be tolerated, nor their false sense of entitlement. Homebrew should not be allowed, simple as that. It's not that I have a problem with it from a ideal perspective but the actual execution of it always leads to illegal game copying. Every time you complain about a DRM policy, you are complaining about hackers and what they do. They ruining this industry and its only the honest people like my self who get hurt.

Posted: Jan 18th 2011 12:22AM MisterApathy said

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If Sony gave him a dollar he should counter that they are supporting his iOS jailbreaking

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