Sony finally releases official statement on PS3 jailbreak

@CaptainProtonX

Ok Sony, thanks for the update. So can you give us a website where these hacks are posted, so we can all downlo.....errrr give them give them a piece of our mind? Thanks!

Nevermind, found it.

@CaptainProto


WOW!!!! that´s a Badass letter!!!!! I´m sure every single pirate on the planet got so scare that they are going to send jailbreaks to sony in huge quantities!!!!!!.... jesus!!! i could barely read it it was more frightening than playing amnesia with the lights off........

@CaptainProtonX
That's not what they're saying.

"To our customers. You are a fine group of people, carry on as you were. To the pirates. YOU GON GET JACKED UP!"

@mcnichoj
As if CFW only is used for piracy. Only thing I did was install AsbestOS, which has nothing to do with piracy at all

@CaptainProtonX Sony's official statement makes no sense to me - hear me out, please.

Since last the failOverflow hack last December was announced to the world, I have had coworkes and friends of mine working in my company's IT department tell me the real danger to the failOverflow hack, was because they discovered used the exact same encryption keys Sony themselves built into the PS3 to authorize every PS3 game ever made, or ever will be made, that if someone wanted to pirate PS3 games using the failOverflow hack, there is no way for Sony to be able to detect it, because the use of Sony's own keys renders pirated software indistinguishable from legitimate software.

That stated, I am trying to figure out how exactly has Sony figured out how to detect a pirated game from a legit game?

Here is what I am thinking - they cannot.

I'm sure if you use any of the older, pre-existing jailbreaks (amateur hour, if you will) that use their own methods to crack into the system, not only is Sony able to detect those, but they removed OtherOS from the PS3 over a year ago, because they could detect that. So if you are using an older hack to get pirated games on the PS3, Sony could (and should) be able to easily detect you and ban you. But the nature of the failOverflow hack, would make banning anyone using it, undetectable.

So (and I will run this by the IT guys at work tomorrow), that this official statement from Sony is little more than a psyche out tactic, to scare people away from pirating PS3 games, before they are tempted to start pirating PS3 games.

And here is why I think it is a psyche out tactic. If they could detect and ban failOverflow users from PSN, wouldn't they have already? Microsoft routinely bans thousands of Xbox LIVE pirates without so much as a warning they are about to begin another round of pirate bannings. Banning thousands of users from LIVE has had the effect of discouraging people from pirating on the Xbox 360 as much as they could (the Xbox 360 being cracked wide open years ago). So if Sony could simply just ban the initial batch of pirates using the failOverflow hack, and allow the message that they actually can ban you for using it, why didn't they just start out by banning people in the first place like Microsoft does, and allowing the news that thousands of pirates just got banned from PSN serve as the only message needed to send to potential PS3 pirates? Why all the chest thumping about future bannings (if you get caught), when actual bannings speaks so much louder than threats of banning? I think the IT guys I work with are right, and I don't think Sony can detect whether someone is using the failOverflow hack.

Like I said, tomorrow, I'm going to run this by the IT guys yet again, but from what I already know, I am thinking this is more of a scare tactic, like they used to do with people who used Napster and Grokster and Limewire - you know, sue grandmothers and 10-year old kids, and hope they scared enough people to stop using P2P, because internally they already knew they did not have a way to stop P2P other than scaring people away from it.

If the IT guys tell me anything different, I will be sure to update you guys on what they said.

@Tachyonic Cargo

As I promised I would last night, I checked with the guys in our IT department today over lunch, to get their take on Sony being able to detect the failOverflow hack, and Sony's dire warnings of consequences when they detect hacked systems. As it turned out, this was a hot topic for discussion from the IT guys all morning amongst themselves, so they were able to fill me in pretty quickly on what they think is going on.


WHAT THEY THINK SONY CAN DETECT:
- anyone using a hacked game to cheat online with; say to get easier kills or more experience on Killzone 3 or Call of Duty: Black Ops
- anyone running homebrew software, and their PS3 happens to be connected to PSN while they are doing it


WHAT THEY THINK SONY CANNOT DETECT:
- anyone playing a pirated PS3 game, whether they are online over PSN, or offline playing it by themselves, so long as the pirated game is not modified to use cheat hacks


AREA OF AMBIGUITY:
- detecting the use of custom firmware, may depend on how customized (how different it is from the most recent official update) the firmware is



What get's really interesting is the prospects of the legal battle ahead for Sony if all of the above is true. The guys, while not lawyers, weighed in on that too, and state that Sony actually has a 50/50 chance of actually losing any legal battle against GeoHotz and the failOverflow group, and may opt to force these guys to all settle out of court so Sony appears to be the victor in their fight. Here is why it is 50/50. If everything above is true, then Sony can realisticly only hope to detect people who are largely using the failOverflow hack for legal purposes - ie. jailbreaking their PS3 so they can run OtherOS, and homebrew games. In order to both of those things, you need the ability to run custom firmware on the system. Running custom firmeware, as well as hacking the system to run custom firmware, is not illegal . . . at least no longer illegal since GeoHotz hacked the iPhone to run custom firmware, and then proceeded to win the legal battle against Apple to seal the deal.

According to the guys, the legal problem for Sony arises from the fact that they cannot actually detect the illegal use of illegally pirated games on the PS3 if someone is using the failOverflow hack - the only things they can detect, are legal uses like running OtherOS and running your own homebrew software (and you just happened to be logged into PSN while doing so). That means the only people Sony can actually ban from PSN, are those who would use the hack for legal uses (and the few assholes who would use it to cheat at online games). Banning anyone who used the hack for legal purposes, would open up Sony for any number of very damaging class action lawsuits, the moment the courts ruled that hacking the PS3 for legal reasons in the first place, is completely legal. Which consequently, is the same ruling that was handed down by the FCC when GeoHotz hacked the iPhone. Once purchased, the actual device belongs to the customer, who has every legal right to alter the actual device, so long as alterations themselves do not constitute or precipitate a crime. So for example, if you purchased a Hummer, you are free by law to pimp your ride out anyway you see fit, even altering the programming on the Hummer's internal computer. So long as your alterations do not include something like changing the VIN, altering the odometer, making the Hummer no longer street legal, circumventing safety devices like airbags and seatbelts, or mounting assault rifle mounts to the vehicle, then you are legally free to make as many alterations to that Hummer as you like - after all, you bought it, it is yours to do with as you please. Which is the same conclusion the FCC came to concerning jailbreaking the iPhone - and then proceeded to officially make it the written law of the land.

Because Sony cannot prove in a court of law, that they can detect illegal use of the hack, only legal use of the hack, they stand a good chance of coming out the losers, especially since the legal precedence of legal hacking was already established with the iPhone ruling.

Anyway, that's what these guys have to say about it. And since they are smarted than I am when it comes to what you can do with a computing system or a network, I will take their word for it. Not that I am going to rush out and pirate every PS3 game imaginable, just that at least I now know that Sony's threat from yesterday is largely bluster trying to scare people away from something Sony has no way of being able to manage. I also know that if they do start banning people, then those people were very likely innocent of doing anything illegal on their PS3s, which would put Sony in the moral wrong, simply by thinking that two wrongs make a right, and knowingly banning innocent people as if they were criminals.

It will certainly be interesting to see how all this plays out.

@Tachyonic Cargo When a PS3 connects to PSN it uploads a list of every file on every device that is connected to the PS3. It also knows what firmware people are running. It even sends to Sony the make and model of your TV. Seriously.

There is detailed information about what exactly Sony is obtaining from a PS3 when it connects I believe on PSxScene.

@(Unverified)

Bah, *feel

@(Unverified)

Actually not really. They can only strike if you post pirated material.

@Tiptup300 no they are saying they can brick you if you HAVE pirated material.

@Jack Kevorkian

Where does it say your system stops working? As far as I can tell it just says "your online features will be shut off, good day". (Queue, "But Sony...." Followed by, "I SAID GOOD DAY!")

@sonicspike41 - This argument has been had to death. Some sourceless article came up a while ago where it was claimed that Sony could "brick" your console remotely if they detected custom firmware.

I'm not interesting in arguing over it again, but I don't think Sony would do it. It would open them up to lawsuits, and it would be horrible for PR. What they will do (and are entitled to do) is ban consoles from the PSN. As far as I know, Sony has never once even hinted that they'd even consider bricking consoles.

@BananaBoat And the only way they could tell if you jailbroke your console? Signing into the PSN! Hack away people, just don't try and mess up other people's experience. Seems easy enough.

@BananaBoat
They definitely cannot brick your console. That would be highly illegal even if they could do it remotely.

@DrRadon

You do realize that they are a business selling products and services don't you?

I bet you didn't even use OtherOS. gtfo

@DrRadon Question for you (assuming you bought your PS3 at launch):

Did your PS3 come with Netflix streaming support?
Did your PS3 come with Facebook support?
Did your PS3 come with support for 3D Blu-ray playback?
Did your PS3 come with Trophies?

Yep, all Sony has done with the PS3 is remove features. Durpa durp.

@Ashitaka I used OtherOS, you gtfo

@DrRadon Remove features? Pretty sure all they did was remove other OS, which like, .05% of all ps3 owners used. Should be happy with what Sony has added. As a launch owner, the ps3 was barebones compared to today. Quit complaining.

@DrRadon

Can someone please explain to me the use of OtherOS? I'm not trying to troll. I'm legitimately curious. I mean, I assume anyone with a PS3 has a PC that can run Windows/Linux better.

@TraceurRyuk Prepping for LBP2

"I assume anyone with a PS3 has a PC that can run Windows/Linux better."

But imagine a PORTABLE DESKTOP PC. That's why most used OtherOS. When someone is one your windows pc, you have a backup linux machine. WinXP machine crap out? Now you have a linux box to rely on until you get your primary machine up and running again.

I never understood why when it comes to OtherOS, people feel the need to shit on others for using it just because they don't need to. Not saying you're the one doing it but there are others on here doing this.

@balta
So you used PSN too, it was your choice.
GTFO.

@TraceurRyuk Prepping for LBP2

It was used as an early security breach to hack into the PS3. Other than that...you could run Linux, which was really slow and ineffective, but you could also put some emulators on that and pirate games that way too.

@DrRadon
Your comment is full of stupid. Sad but true.

@Rubert - You couldn't pirate games using OtherOS. Pirated games weren't possible on the PS3 until the USB dongle based hack came about (which had nothing to do with any vulnerabilities in OtherOS)

As for the functionality of OtherOS, it really didn't have any other than as a cheap, underpowered Linux box. The capability was there for a pretty powerful and inexpensive linux machine, but the GPU was never accessible (by design), so it was like running a really weak Linux PC without any GPU support.

@Rubert - Oh, you meant pirating roms to run on emulators through OtherOS.

I'm not sure that was possible without GPU support, but then again, I never really spent much time playing with OtherOS, so I'm not sure.

@eat it

If that was true, we would have cross game chat. Cloud saving, (that might be coming soon), and be able to install our games, and then not need the disc. Those are features that people have been wanting for a long time. There is a market out there for it. A huge market? Probably yes, once someone lets people see how great it is. As long as people are not forced to use cloud saving, or install then it's great.

@BlazeKing

It's also an extremely inexpensive cell processor, which is the main draw. It might not run Linux well, but if somebody is looking to play around with programming for the cell architecture than you couldn't beat the OtherOS.

@warren2345 when some customers stop making problems for other customers

@ShadowSoldier89
Actually, they'll stop hating their customers when people stop buying their products because the company treats everyone they meet like a criminal.

If you're honestly waiting for "some customers" to stop doing what a heavy handed company like Sony doesn't like... you'll be waiting a LONG TIME.

@warren2345

I don't get the hate for sony. All they did was release a great console and great games while employing thousands of people. are they not supposed to protect their employees and studios?

@warren2345

you could always just build a PC and do whatever with it...OR buy a used PS3 and CFW it all you want...just dont put it on PSN.....I see no issue with this....thats like saying "Why can't I put this car on the road because I modded it to be cooler? so what if its an unsafe ride height and is more prone to cause accidents and hurt someone else? Its MY car...I can do what I want with it...."

sorry...not the case...you can make ANY car you want look and perform however you want...doesn't make it street legal....

So yea...do what you want to your PS3...doesn't mean it should have access to PSN.....all its gonna take is for ONE super douche to make a PS3 virus that spreads across PSN...then what will you say? "Oooh guess this homebrew stuff WAS bad...huh?"

@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
I dont think a virus is ANY kind of threat. You'd probably need to knowingly install it, like you would on a Linux or Mac based computer, and in order to install a custom package you'd need to be on a hacked PS3. I highly doubt a trojan is possible.

Also, you can't do everything through a PC. From what I understand, Remote Play is possible on all PS3 games with homebrew apps.

@warren2345
How will they know that your homebrew is innocent and not a pirated game or a wallhack for the latest CoD?

@mywhitenoise

Knowingly install it? so you TRUST the people that make these CFWs? You trust that they patched security holes that are left open? If Sony can make things pop up in the XMB without and install what makes you think a virus writer can't? Its only a matter of time....if android, Blackberry, iOS devices all have had viruses on them thanks to jailbreaking....the same can and WILL be said for the PS3...wait for it...

@warren2345
Except these "homebrew" customers are creating/running hacks and cheats that ruins the online experience for everyone else. Either play nice or don't play at all, it's a simple rule from kindergarden that many people online still hasn't been able to grasp. I say ban them, remove all their trophies, and expose them as jerks.

@eat it

I agree.

@ Chris

I mostly agree with you and see your point. The problem is that a great number of hacked PS3s are used to play pirated games. So how do we reach a middle ground? Unfortunately many gamers don't see the harm to the community at large piracy causes.

@Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi
not going to happen. Linux and Macs don't have that problem. You have to install the virus yourself in order to do that. Windows on the other hand can install crap on your computer without your permission.
I'm pretty sure PS3s are Unix based.

@mywhitenoise I could make a virus for mac that you wouldnt have to knowingly install, its not that hard either, people just dont do it because macs are too small of a market to make it worth it to distribute a virus

@ShadowSoldier89
Sure you can, bud...sure you can. Like there are more PS3s than there are Macs?

Doesn't Apple hold the market for laptops? "small market" my ass. There are millions of Mac desktops, and millions of Mac laptops. You don't want the fame of being the first person to break the mac?

@eat it
And not to mention protect the intellectual property of the developers and studios that create software for their console.
All pirates do is hurt the gaming industry.
It doesn't matter if the hacks were only intended to reactivate the "otherOS" option.
Ultimately, most hacks end up being used for piracy. And thanks to these asshat hackers, we may now have serial keys with PS3 games.
Way to help out the gaming community, dicks.

@mywhitenoise

right....tell that to the people with Viruses on Android devices....thats essentially linux...right?

@mywhitenoise

Every year there's a security conference held where people must attempt to hack a computer over a wifi-network from their own computer. There are different means of doing this, each with it's own prizes and such. The easier the hack is to take over the system, the more it's "worth". Things like visiting a website and having it remote execute code without your permission would be worth more than making the other user download a program first. The hacks are then kept under wraps until after the respective companies have patched them.

It took some of the greatest hackers a few hours or more (if memory serves correct) to get into a fully-patched Windows 7 system using both Firefox and IE8 if I remember right. It took them less than 10 seconds to get into a Mac OSX system using Safari (both of which were up-to-date with security fixes/patches).

(Granted this is from spring of 2009, but it does show that despite being *nix-based, Mac systems can be stupid easy to hack. The problem is that most end-users are like you and assume that because there aren't many hacks, that they can't be done. Then, because no one really tries to hack Macs, Apple doesn't bother to always fix some of the glaring holes in the system.)

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9129978/Researcher_cracks_Mac_in_10_seconds_at_PWN2OWN_wins_5k

@sonicspike41 Thats cause Macs have had the same dame security holes for decades...boggles me how it hasn't been fixed yet....that whole "Macs are better than PC's because they don't get viruses" talk is just ignorant....simply the reason is that its not going to effect as many people...thats why the hackers dont bother....let a hacker/virus coder get in super douche mode like GeoHot......and it will happen

@warren2345 why is would it be disturbing? you broke your contract with them. so they don't feel the need to support your system since you couldn't follow your users agreement.