Mark Rein is getting a little tired of "the 3DS question" but, alas, my journalistic instincts demanded I ask him once again. With the launch of Nintendo's handheld right around the corner, it seemed like a prudent inquiry.
"Why do people keep asking about the platforms we don't love?" he asked me in an interview room at the back of Epic's booth on the GDC show floor. "Nothing's changed," he added, "There's only so much time in the day; our engine requires a certain level of hardware capabilities to make our pipeline, our tools work -- and we work on the ones that do. The second Nintendo releases a piece of hardware that can run our engine well, we'll be on it like water on fish."
For Rein, it's not a beef with Nintendo -- he's actually fond of The House Mario Built and has multiple handhelds and Wiis in his home. "There's nothing against Nintendo. I hate that people somehow think that's the case," he said. "If we felt it could run [Unreal Engine] and deliver the kind of experience people license our technology to build, we'd be on [the 3DS]." Well then, guess we won't ask Santa for that 3D version of Infinity Blade we've been dreaming of.
Reader Comments (122)
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:10PM superchamois said
Nothing else matters, Saints Row 3 was announced.
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 9:41AM wikoogle said
@bm111
The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Reply
The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 7:32PM Nolan North said
@wikoogle
Capcom got the MT Frameworks engine to work on the 3DS, which looks brilliant in RE: Revelations. Just because Epic can't get their current Unreal Engine 3 engine to work on the 3DS doesn't mean they can't modify it to work. iPhone is more powerful than the 3DS, but it does have limitations as well, hence why Infinity Blade pushes the system (literally making your phone heat up and draining battery as it does).
Reply
Capcom got the MT Frameworks engine to work on the 3DS, which looks brilliant in RE: Revelations. Just because Epic can't get their current Unreal Engine 3 engine to work on the 3DS doesn't mean they can't modify it to work. iPhone is more powerful than the 3DS, but it does have limitations as well, hence why Infinity Blade pushes the system (literally making your phone heat up and draining battery as it does).
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:11PM Puercoperro said
You can't be serious? They publish an Unreal Engine 3 game on iPhone but can't push that on a 3DS, a dedicated gaming platform?
I may be misinformed but isn't the 3DS more powerful than an iPhone4?
What gives?
I may be misinformed but isn't the 3DS more powerful than an iPhone4?
What gives?
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:18PM CypherSignal said
@Puercoperro
You're probably misinformed. The biggest problem is likely the memory, as the iPhone has a ton available compared to the 3DS.
Reply
You're probably misinformed. The biggest problem is likely the memory, as the iPhone has a ton available compared to the 3DS.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:44PM klado said
@Puercoperro LOL at 3DS more powerful than an IPHONE, yeah right.
3DS can barely pull toguether a horse power of 266 x 2 of CPU, not even to mention memory ram 93 dedicated.
Iphone runs around 1GHZ cpu and 512 Ram...VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY MISINFORMED
Reply
3DS can barely pull toguether a horse power of 266 x 2 of CPU, not even to mention memory ram 93 dedicated.
Iphone runs around 1GHZ cpu and 512 Ram...VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY MISINFORMED
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:51PM BryceMeiklejohn said
@Puercoperro The iPhone 4 is really powerful, plus it has a way nicer screen then the 3DS.
Reply
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:51PM YeshuabenYosef said
@Puercoperro Apple A4 CPU 800 - 1000 MHz, memory 512 MB RAM.
3DS two 266 MHz CPU's, 64 MB RAM.
In Laymen's terms, no it's not.
Reply
3DS two 266 MHz CPU's, 64 MB RAM.
In Laymen's terms, no it's not.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 11:29PM Muu said
@Puercoperro
more of a difference of what it can do. 3ds has a lot of fixed shaders built into hardware that give it power as long as you stick to the fundamentals. It does not allow for programmable shaders though, and either Epic is unwilling to make that compromise to make the engine work, or they're too incompetent to get it to function. Other companies have done similar things already, so it's most likely something in the business end of things preventing them (or discouraging them) from doing so.
Reply
more of a difference of what it can do. 3ds has a lot of fixed shaders built into hardware that give it power as long as you stick to the fundamentals. It does not allow for programmable shaders though, and either Epic is unwilling to make that compromise to make the engine work, or they're too incompetent to get it to function. Other companies have done similar things already, so it's most likely something in the business end of things preventing them (or discouraging them) from doing so.
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 3:39AM Malmer said
@klado
The fact that you would even compare the numbers the cpu's mhz, and even think you'd be wiser without knowing anything about the architecture, just goes to show how lost you are. This isn't 1993.
I'm curious as to how someone like you would ever be able to explain the following scenario:
PSP CPU @ 1~333 MHz
Vertex Performance (Triangles per Second): 33 Million
Fillrate (Pixels per Second): 664 Million
iPhone 3GS @ 600 MHz
Vertex Performance (Triangles per Second): 28 Million
Fillrate (Pixels per Second): 500 Million
Look at them. I'm not even mentioning the RAM of both machines, because I wouldn't wanna short circuit you.
Reply
The fact that you would even compare the numbers the cpu's mhz, and even think you'd be wiser without knowing anything about the architecture, just goes to show how lost you are. This isn't 1993.
I'm curious as to how someone like you would ever be able to explain the following scenario:
PSP CPU @ 1~333 MHz
Vertex Performance (Triangles per Second): 33 Million
Fillrate (Pixels per Second): 664 Million
iPhone 3GS @ 600 MHz
Vertex Performance (Triangles per Second): 28 Million
Fillrate (Pixels per Second): 500 Million
Look at them. I'm not even mentioning the RAM of both machines, because I wouldn't wanna short circuit you.
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 5:35AM Punkrawk Bbob said
@Malmer
But that means bigger numbers don't mean MOAR POWERZ?!?
I had a hell of a time convincing my friends about AMD processors > Intel processors from 2001-2007 because of that. Tried explaining the whole "that's just the amount of energy going into the CPU and doesn't even remotely mean faster" - But alas, it's lost on the idiot masses.
Reply
But that means bigger numbers don't mean MOAR POWERZ?!?
I had a hell of a time convincing my friends about AMD processors > Intel processors from 2001-2007 because of that. Tried explaining the whole "that's just the amount of energy going into the CPU and doesn't even remotely mean faster" - But alas, it's lost on the idiot masses.
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 6:16AM Anticrawl said
@Puercoperro
Mark Rein is the biggest dick in the gaming industry. I'm sure someone at Nintendo commented on his douchieness so he holds a grudge.
That or Nintendo won't bend over backwards for Epic like Microsoft, Apple and Sony have. The Unreal 3 Engine isn't exactly compliant with standards on home consoles.
Reply
Mark Rein is the biggest dick in the gaming industry. I'm sure someone at Nintendo commented on his douchieness so he holds a grudge.
That or Nintendo won't bend over backwards for Epic like Microsoft, Apple and Sony have. The Unreal 3 Engine isn't exactly compliant with standards on home consoles.
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 9:42AM wikoogle said
@Puercoperro
The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Reply
The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 9:44AM wikoogle said
@Malmer
It's not about the numbers, it's about the architecture. The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Reply
It's not about the numbers, it's about the architecture. The iPhone is indeed MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Other than that though, the 3DS is using components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:11PM hxczuner said
So Unreal will run on the iPhone, but not on the 3DS??? hmmm...
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 10:18PM dscuber9000 said
@hxczuner What's the problem? iPhone is a lot more powerful.
Reply
Posted: Mar 3rd 2011 9:54AM wikoogle said
@hxczuner
The iPhone is MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Despite being old, the GPU is fairly comparable to the PowerVR535 gpus found in the old iPhones. It still falls way behind the newer PowerVR543 gpus found in the iPad 2, iPhone 5 and NGP/PSP2 but regardless, the gpu isn't the bottleneck, the CPU is. The 3DS is using CPU components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Reply
The iPhone is MUCH more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS uses old ARM11 processors designed back in 2002! The iPhone uses the Cortex A8 processor from 2009 that also runs at a much higher clockspeed.
The vast difference in the CPU architecture is what's holding the 3DS back, but it's not the only difference. The 3DS has 96mbs of RAM, the iPhone has 512mbs of ram. The 3DS gpu is an architecture from 2006, but it's a fairly decent performer and the system's saving grace. Despite being old, the GPU is fairly comparable to the PowerVR535 gpus found in the old iPhones. It still falls way behind the newer PowerVR543 gpus found in the iPad 2, iPhone 5 and NGP/PSP2 but regardless, the gpu isn't the bottleneck, the CPU is. The 3DS is using CPU components that are roughly two generations behind most smartphones, including the iPhone 4. Why are people surprised that Epic can't get Unreal to work on it?
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:13PM JnRx said
I smell something fishy about this... >_>
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 10:42PM Marco le Polo said
@JnRx
There sure are a lot of girly avatars nowadays. I can't even figure out how to change mine to match the trend.
Reply
There sure are a lot of girly avatars nowadays. I can't even figure out how to change mine to match the trend.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 11:30PM The Only Girl said
@Marco le Polo
Mine is the girliest of them all, for sure.
Reply
Mine is the girliest of them all, for sure.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:14PM embassy said
I'm sure it's not an apples/apples comparison, but essentially the 3DS must not be as powerful (or compatible, I suppose) as an iPhone 3GS? That seems crazy.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:34PM dagamer34 said
@embassy
3GS has a Cortex A8 processor running at 600Mhz and 256MB of RAM. Nintendo 3DS has 2 ARM11 cores running at 266Mhz and only 96MB of RAM (and please do not make the mistake of doing 266Mhz * 2 = 533Mhz). Lastly, since the main feature of the 3DS is 3D, it needs twice as much power to keep the same FPS.
Not enough power means not enough power.
Reply
3GS has a Cortex A8 processor running at 600Mhz and 256MB of RAM. Nintendo 3DS has 2 ARM11 cores running at 266Mhz and only 96MB of RAM (and please do not make the mistake of doing 266Mhz * 2 = 533Mhz). Lastly, since the main feature of the 3DS is 3D, it needs twice as much power to keep the same FPS.
Not enough power means not enough power.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:14PM Narutogameking said
This proves how last-gen 3DS is. I mean event he iPhone4 can run Unreal Engine 3 but 3DS cant.....
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:18PM The Only Girl said
@Narutogameking
It doesn't prove anything really. Are you not the slightest bit curious as to how a multimedia device can initiate something a gaming-dedicated device couldn't?
Reply
It doesn't prove anything really. Are you not the slightest bit curious as to how a multimedia device can initiate something a gaming-dedicated device couldn't?
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:20PM Drakkenfyre said
This proves nothing.
The Wii has better specs than an iPhone 3, yet you don't see Unreal Tournament 3 on it, do you?
He said the moment Nintendo hardware could do the engine, he would.
Reply
The Wii has better specs than an iPhone 3, yet you don't see Unreal Tournament 3 on it, do you?
He said the moment Nintendo hardware could do the engine, he would.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:56PM YeshuabenYosef said
@Narutogameking The Iphone 4 is actually very powerful in spite of what Funnyjunk says.
Reply
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 11:14PM Mr Khan said
@BrianH
Guh, i've heard this argument before. non-dedicated gaming devices require vastly higher numbers to achieve similar results for an array of reasons. I mean, Phantasy Star Online was on the Dreamcast, but PSO Blue Burst for PC, which ran off the same engine, required 64 MB of VRAM at the time, far higher than what the Dreamcast worked with, for instance
It's a fallacious argument to make, apples to apples
Reply
Guh, i've heard this argument before. non-dedicated gaming devices require vastly higher numbers to achieve similar results for an array of reasons. I mean, Phantasy Star Online was on the Dreamcast, but PSO Blue Burst for PC, which ran off the same engine, required 64 MB of VRAM at the time, far higher than what the Dreamcast worked with, for instance
It's a fallacious argument to make, apples to apples
Posted: Mar 5th 2011 2:45PM Drakkenfyre said
@BrianH
1. System memory is not the sole definition of power.
2. At what point in time is pointing out the power of a system whining?
Reply
1. System memory is not the sole definition of power.
2. At what point in time is pointing out the power of a system whining?
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:15PM mixiboi said
I'm trying to figure out what is the key issue that is stopping them from the hardware.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:52PM BryceMeiklejohn said
@mixiboi The 3DS isn't very powerful. Quite last gen actually.
Reply
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:15PM KiraXD said
lss powerful than an iphone 4? im not a fanboy of any system but that seems like it sucks for the 3DS not being able to handle iphone graphics.
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:15PM Airdemon said
how can MT framework run on 3ds but this, i understand that it can't run Unreal 3 but they could atleast try and make a mobile version in there spar time
Posted: Mar 2nd 2011 9:25PM tendoboy1984 said
@Airdemon
This. If Capcom can get their MT Framework engine on the 3DS, why can't Epic make a version of Unreal Engine for the 3DS?
And Mark Rein has always bashed Nintendo, while Cliffy B. has admitted to being a Nintendo fanboy; maybe Cliffy's working for the wrong company...
Reply
This. If Capcom can get their MT Framework engine on the 3DS, why can't Epic make a version of Unreal Engine for the 3DS?
And Mark Rein has always bashed Nintendo, while Cliffy B. has admitted to being a Nintendo fanboy; maybe Cliffy's working for the wrong company...
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