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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:51PM EljhHck said

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I've been set for a while now on working my way into the game developing scene. I've been working on a Fallout 3 mod for the past two years, essentially a new game in itself, so I know what I'm getting myself into, that's for sure. This article is definitely appreciated!

Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:07PM OGC said

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money, money, money, moooonay...

Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:21PM shouryuuken said

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@OGC mooo-nayyy
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:19AM BananaBoat said

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@shouryuuken - Some people, got to haveeeee ittttttttt.
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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:14PM TheDarkWayne said

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Wow, I had no idea QA guys made so much. I thought it was like, 15,000 a year, not 50,000 a year! Geez, I'm going to college for programming, but if i can get $50,000 a year for filing bug reports I might just drop out!

Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:23PM shouryuuken said

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@TheDarkWayne i know a few ppl that do that and they make barely above minimum wage.. so im wondering if most of the respondents are like sr qa or something.
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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:26PM TheDarkWayne said

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@shouryuuken yeah I figured as much, but even then, a bit above minimum wage for an entry level position that could lead to much more lucrative positions isn't half bad.
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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:49PM ItsameMatt03 said

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@TheDarkWayne

I know it's a different industry, but I work as an automotive quality supervisor(level 1 equivilant), and my salary last year was about $40,000. I've looked into QA jobs for game companies, and every one I've looked at has a higher salary or wage than my current job.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 12:33AM sigma8 said

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@TheDarkWayne
I don't think QA = Test player. For $50K I'm sure it's a decent amount of work. It might involve doing some light programming work to assist the devs.. Or code auditing.. So, you're probably right that it'd be a good stepping stone to development...but not as good of a stepping stone as a proper degree. Stay in school!
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 1:42AM saganaut said

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@TheDarkWayne

Coming from someone who has spent 2 years in QA, I can tell you that you don't get paid $50,000 just to "file bug reports." Yes, that's a job requirement but there's lots more. You'll also most likely be writing automated test plans which are step-by-step guides for regression systems to test code without human interaction. Besides attending tons of meetings, you'll probably also write some framework code to assist the systems that run those automated tests nightly. You're expected to ask the right questions about a particular product or module's functionality, raise concerns to management, and generally stay on top of a project to meet your deadlines and make sure your company ships quality code to end users. It can be very demanding but very fun too. I would encourage anyone interested in programming to think about QA and not just development. They can be different worlds at times but they're still ultimately two sides of the same coin. And as a recent computer science grad, I can tell you that I make VERY good money as a tester.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 11:43AM theydidntnameme said

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@saganaut thank you for your input, i never really saw QA like that (i didnt think it involved any programming at all) but if most QA positions are the way you mention it, ill give it a shot. does this apply to positions named "QA Tester" or similar? those are the positions I assumed were nothing but playing for hours and filing reports.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:32AM Ballistic H said

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QA testers do NOT make that much, not even QA Test Leads nor QA Project Leads make that much. The only people that can make that much would be at least the QA Project Managers.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:36AM Ballistic H said

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Btw, the job titles are never clear: you can have the guy called Test Lead in the game credits but internally he's the QA Project Manager.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 8:09AM SystemsAnalyst said

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@TheDarkWayne This is more than likely for a SR. QA testing position OR a tester that works for a Major dev and works an insane amount of overtime. I know testers that work for Rockstar and Ubisoft. I also used to be a Lead QA Tester and I didn't make $50K.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 5:55PM TheDarkWayne said

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@saganaut Well I hope I didn't offend you or anybody else, I was really just kidding around, I know it's a lot more than just what the stupid commercials on G4 say. So was the testing position you're making good money with now something different than the QA you've worked previously? Or are they the same job?
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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:22PM Marco le Polo said

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Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:24PM Mr Hett said

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I might start college over for this.

Posted: Apr 27th 2011 11:43PM Shockz said

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In other news, the increase in indie developer wages is almost entirely due to Notch making $holyshit off of Minecraft.

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 12:10AM Lerkero said

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I would think that these days range is more important than average. People want to know what their salary might start off as and what their salary could potentially be. Not necessarily an average that could be skewed either way by outliers.

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:25AM FerrisCJ24 said

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Meanwhile...Bobby Kotick's greedy ass made 6 gagillion dollars last quarter. But of course he is still bitching that it isn't enough, so COD map packs are now increasing to $30 per pack so he can buy a unicorn.

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:52AM BananaBoat said

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@FerrisCJ24 - Don't hate the player, hate the game. Ever since the Bush tax cuts, and the inception of the Unicorn Quidditch League (The UQL for short), Unicorns have been in high demand and low supply. Mythical beasts are costly yo.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 3:26AM BananaBoat said

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@kgoo867 - Some along the production chain make less money. Junior developers, for instance, as well as voice actors, script writers, etc.

Never has my decision to go for a business degree instead of a CS degree been more clearly vindicated. I could have busted my ass for four years, learning advanced math that had NOTHING to do with 3D modelling, or many other video game related positions, just to make less than the person managing the operation. Sometimes it seems like there is more money to be made marketing and managing games than there is in actually creating them.

(I've got a ton of respect for anyone that did go the CS route. I'm terrible enough at damned algebra, much less trig or calc. I don't think I could have passed those classes even if I paid for a tutor and spent literally all day every day drilling)

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 10:00AM Muu said

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@kgoo867

One thing not mentioned is job stability. How many of these guys have a steady full time position, not a contract one? All but the core group of devs I assume go through series of hirings and layoffs between phases of projects, and do not necessarily have a job all parts of the year. Sort of like the average contract electrician or millwright -- I've talked to some of those guys who gloat about easy 100k+ pay, but that's also hugely dependent on them having a job to go to. That was before the whole 2008 stock crash, after which a lot of construction jobs came to a standstill. Doubt many of those guys are still singing the same song.

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 11:54AM jessej07 said

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This is the second gaming website I've read that has reported this news as if it were bad news. The rising salaries are actually quite good for the games industry, believe it or not.

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 1:37PM Marked said

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@jessej07

"good for the gaming industry" doesn't necessarily translate for "good for the gamers."

Infact if wages are jacked across the gaming board, guess who gets passed that extra cost? not saying cost of living increase isn't justified, but it's pretty easy to guess where the extra money is coming from (and it's not from the top)
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 2:04PM jessej07 said

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@Marked

The extra money is coming from the increase in sales, which is indicative of more quality in the face of higher costs of production (salaries reported in the article). A growing market of video game consumers has grown the industry to sustain these salary levels, it's a good thing.

The news of increased salaries in the games industry is good for the gaming industry, and in turn also good for gamers.

Unless you've started paying $69.99 for games already and for some reason they've forgotten to mark up my games.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 12:31PM BritC said

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> "Indie developers saw a year-to-year increase of around $6,000, bringing their average wages up to $26,780"

What happens if you remove Notch from the Indie developer pool? :)

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 1:45PM BananaBoat said

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@kgoo867 - I go to a pretty good business school. Still though, it is obviously often more about who you know than what you know, in a lot of fields. You could be the best programmer in the world, but if the studio heads boss has a friend in need of a job, you know which one of you is getting hired.

It wasn't just the unnecessary math that kept me from a CS degree: It was the knowledge that my entire career would have the specter of outsourcing hanging over it. You can't outsource a manager (well...you could try I guess...) or a PR guy, or any of the other fields that a generic B.A can get you into. It's a pretty good pre-law degree as well (or it will be, when I finally finish it) should I choose to go that route.

I really do have a lot of respect for anyone that stuck out a CS degree, but I don't regret my decision. My only regret is that I couldn't get a degree saying I know how to create games without also learning how to do advanced math that never would have applied to my field. That predicament seems to have gotten better in the three years since I began college (my school didn't even have a CS in video game development at the time) as more universities figure out what game developers actually need in a graduate (that isn't going to be a programmer)

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 4:43PM BritC said

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By the way, I'm always shocked by the numbers I see for game developers and developers in general since I work in the industry and have never earned that much. I wonder if these are skewed by San Francisco and New York where the cost of living is much higher. I also wonder what the average number of hours worked per week is for game developers.

Additionally, I noticed that much of the salary gains were earning-back declines in salary seen in 2009.

The 2009 survey had "an average American game industry salary in 2008 of $79,000", " programmers .. an average annual salary of $85,024.".

The 2010 survey had ""an average American game industry salary in 2008 of $75,573", " programmers .. an average annual salary of $80,320."

The 2010 survey had ""an average American game industry salary in 2008 of $80,817", " programmers .. an average annual salary of $85,733."

Compared to 2008, developer salaries over the past two years have increased by between 0.5% and 1.0% per year (i.e. less than inflation).

Posted: Apr 28th 2011 4:45PM BritC said

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@BritC Oops. I meant to write "2009", "2010", and "2011" surveys.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 5:56PM jessej07 said

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@BritC

Where are you getting the 2011 figures? The figures you posted for the second 2010 (corrected to 2011) are actually the figures for 2010 (article above).

But I think I get what you're saying... the 7% increase for 2010 is offsetting a similar amount decrease for 2008 to 2009?
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 7:12PM BritC said

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@jessej07 It's a little confusing because I'm referring to the "2011 survey" as in "the survey numbers revealed in April 2011" but it covers 2010. I should've been clearer when I wrote that. You can just google and find articles about the earlier numbers.
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Posted: Apr 28th 2011 6:02PM TheDarkWayne said

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@BananaBoat What kind of degree are you getting specifically Banana? And at what school? I'm a cs major, and while I'm not having the kind of trouble you're dreading, yet anyway, I wonder if a business degree for games wouldn't be a safer idea. Also, man, i've never even though about outsourcing for games, does that really happen? Never would have thought of developers doing that.

Posted: Apr 30th 2011 7:04PM BananaBoat said

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@TheDarkWayne - I realize that you probably won't read this (since this story is old) but I've just noticed your questions so here it goes:

I'm working toward a Bachelor's in Business Administration at the University of Missouri.

As for outsourcing, it does happen in video games. Look at the credits list for any major title, and you'll notice a lot of outside companies that are brought in to do work on the game. Outsourcing to other countries may not be a huge issue currently (though it does happen), but outsourcing to other companies (that will do it cheaper than in-house staff would need to be paid) is rampant. Instead of paying you a decent salary all year long, they can pay a contract worker peanuts for only the amount of time it takes him to complete the work. Obviously they wouldn't need to pay benefits, or anything like that either.

I'd fear working as a game developer in general. Crunch would kill me, for starters, but then there is the issue of being laid off once the game is finished (hopefully to be rehired at a later date, but that isn't a guarantee). It just seems like a never ending nightmare to me. I guess it is fine if you can get hired by a developer that doesn't treat its staff like dirt though (Valve, Blizzard, and Bioware come to mind).

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