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Reader Comments (29)

Posted: Jun 27th 2011 7:37PM guywithglasses said

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im not going to read this since i already know gamers won this battle

good luck to those of you that will
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:00PM darthnilloc said

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@guywithglasses It's worth reading. Thanks for the write-up.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:44PM The Cole Train said

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@guywithglasses
Some of us actually want to read this, so you can go bug off.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 7:46PM Papa Neorev said

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Its very interesting the way the judges right/left wings went all in together, and the 2 dissenters were 1 right and 1 left. By the way some of the previous arguments had been i expected more than 1 of the left wing judges to dissent. As always the SCOTUS suprises
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 7:46PM erwos said

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Even though I agree with the SCOTUS decision, I felt like the dissent was well-written, and that the two dissenting justices made some worthwhile points.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 1:05AM MGTrey said

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@erwos: Yeah. I would hope a Supreme Court Justice could reasonably defend their decision(s).
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 7:56PM Yellowdevil said

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So in In the end (no brainer), parents have to be responsible for what their kids rent/buy/play instead of sitting back and letting the state mandate it.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 7:59PM vidguy said

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That's why strict scrutiny is known as "strict in theory, fatal in fact."

That quote by Breyer at the end is absolutely ludicrous. There are very few exceptions to free speech rights under the First Amendment, and obscenity is one of them (as well as incitement to violence, hate speech, and defamation). That is: obscenity is a recognized exception. One of the issues in this case was whether the Court would create a new exception for violence. They refused.

His example is not as clear as he wishes, anyway. Constitutionally, obscenity is directing at prurient interests in the form of sex, not violence. It is not clear, and actually quite unlikely, that the material could be banned just because a virtual woman was incidentally topless.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:09PM Prboi said

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I'm glad America has some common sense. But the fact that this was even a court case saddens me :(
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:43PM AKBlade13 said

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@Prboi I'm actually of the opposite. The fact that the Supreme Court has now put it foot down we don't have to worry about people trying to have games banned or have the government interfere in an already industry regulated scenario (something some industries should have of).

I grew up playing Mortal Kombat and Resident Evil 2 (which pretty much scared me to crap). I'm a law-abiding citizen who's doing excellent academically. I had parents that did their job instead of throwing kids to the wild and hoping things worked out.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:18PM SpishackCola said

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Stats 101: Correlation does not equal causation. People should know the Supreme Court will laugh at anything that tries to make that link without sufficient evidence.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:19PM Anticrawl said

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Seems the only protection the people have against a growing police state government is Supreme Court rulings.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:20PM Anticrawl said

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@Anticrawl

Which is disheartening because the basis of this ruling is that states/federal should follow the constitution.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 9:58PM Amarsir said

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@Anticrawl I'm worried it might not even be the whole court, just Scalia. It's good that Kagan and Sotomayor agreed, but the questions they asked during Oral Arguments lead me to suspect that absent Scalia, they might have joined with Alito in an opinion saying "restriction might be OK, just not this law."

Maybe that's unfair of me, but I have yet to be impressed.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 11:02AM gordeaux said

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@Anticrawl so.... it's working as intended then, right? seems pretty heartening to me.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 2:59PM Anticrawl said

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@gordeaux

The Supreme Court is suppose to be the final check in checks and balances. It shouldn't have to come this far over something so mundane and obviously protected by a country founding document.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:42PM ghostadv said

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Is it just me or does Breyer seem to be falling to the Slipper Slope fallacy in that last paragraph?
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:49PM willooi said

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I was lucky enough to have this as an essay topic for a psychology paper last semester, and indeed, scientific evidence is sketchy and inconclusive. The main problem in any studies trying to link games and violence is how to properly measure 'aggression'. Via a scale of 1 to 10? How hard they can punch a punching bag? But then these measures can be affected by lying and raw physical strength, etc.

One of the only ways to properly find a link between violent games and real violence is to randomise a group of young kids to play, e.g. Gears of War and another group to play Kinectimals and then see which ones are more 'aggressive' after a couple of years, and obviously it isn't ethical to do that. And then there's the problem on how aggression is measured again. Another possible way to look for a link, is to ask these violent people whether they played games...and chances are, they've probably been affected by other things.

Plus in many biased studies out there, the classification of 'violent games' is completely messed up - even Super Mario counts as violent because you jump on things and destroy them - or at least that's what they've claimed. And then there's also the much wider social issue of moral panic, because society and politicians prefer to find scapegoats for tragedies like school shootings, without properly focusing on other factors such as parenting, gun control, bullying, violence in movies, cartoons, domestic violence, etc.

Anyway, long rant over, I'm glad that the bill was rejected. Common sense won out in the end.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 7:32AM Xero Theory said

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@willooi There problem is there is no completely unbiased study. My problem with any of these studies is how would they know that the video game actually increased the pension for violence in the test subject and not something else or a combination of factors and experiences? Are they going to supervise the children at home and school and watching tv so they can make sure there are no other conflicting factors?

The only way to have a conclusive study would be if they had identical children that all had the same exposure to everything, But obviously that is impossible. In the end this matter is no different than teaching your kids about the birds and the bees, death, your own outlook on God, the myth of Santa etc. etc. It is up to parents to decide what is appropriate and what they are ok with. It's also up to them to police the material their children have access to to the best of their ability.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 2:47PM Sora said

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@willooi
Here's one idea for a study I just had while reading your comment:
Randomize subjects into three groups: one who plays a non-violent game such as Kinectimals, one who plays a "violent" game (like Super Mario,) and one who plays an unquestionably violent game (i.e. Gears of War.)

Prior to having the subjects play the games, hook them up to a PET scan and have them think about or describe someone they strongly dislike.

Then, have each group play its respective game for a certain period of time, and then repeat the PET scan process.

From there, compare and contrast pre and post game brain activity.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 9:14PM willooi said

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@Sora

That's a good idea, but someone already beat you to it (just using MRIs instead)! If you're interested, search for this:

Weber, R., Ritterfeld, U., & Mathiak, K. (2006). Does Playing Violent Video Games Induce Aggression? Empirical Evidence of a Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging Study. Media Psychology, 8, 39–60.

They found that brain activity for varying emotions often come across as pretty ambiguous - like the region that 'lights up' during feelings of anger is also the same region that gets activated during fear...

Which is especially interesting, as this could be interpreted not simply as 'games make you angry', but as 'games make you scared within the world it's created'... which is arguably more a testament to the quality of the game itself and for its effectiveness in eliciting that response from players

But as Xero Theory says, there is no such thing as a perfect study and it's all but impossible to totally account for background factors and genetic predispositions. Which is why it's important that media and governments don't jump on the bandwagon...but hey, everyone loves a good witch hunt I s'pose
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 8:51PM Fuzzy OneThree said

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Thank you for explaining the dissenting side thoroughly, I hadn't seen any good discussion of that yet.

Still happy that they voted to overturn the ruling.
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Posted: Jun 27th 2011 10:06PM 343 Guilty Fart said

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What happened to the old Law of the Game?
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 12:50AM (Unverified) said

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I always love when a person critical of video gaming claims that you can violently beat, rape, torture and kill a woman, seemingly in every popular game. I have yet to play such a game. I really don't ever want to.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 2:20PM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

Rapelay.

Of course Rapelay is only infamous (famous?) because it's such an exception.
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Posted: Jun 29th 2011 12:27PM MasterCKO said

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@(Unverified) Yeah, that's my main problem with that particular dissenting opinion. He descends into meaningless hyperbole at that point (he almost had me before he launched into the "beat, torture, rape then maim and kill a woman" nonsense). That is the very definition of a strawman argument.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 1:19AM iAlejandro said

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Or you know we could just... you know have responsible parents who don't let their children play violent games. That would be a start, asshats.
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 10:32AM (Unverified) said

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you don't want your kids to be exposed to violent video games, DONT BUY THEM!! And if you want to play them, but don't want your kids to play them, lock them up! It's a little hypocritical, but at least you're sticking to some value.

The ESRP did the hard work for parents by putting a label on the game, all the parent has to do is grow a bit of spine and put his/her foot down on what rating games their kids can't play. The kids won't like it, but a bit of disappointment is not going to kill them.

Oh, and expect the argument of "But my friend's parents let him play it!"

-X
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Posted: Jun 28th 2011 10:34AM (Unverified) said

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@(Unverified)

Lock up the videogames... not your kids... that's just wrong :p
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