Report: Emails show Team Bondi/Rockstar schism, long hours for L.A. Noire devs

@ORTHROK Yeah right? What's wrong with a little slave labor? Developers need to stop worrying about getting paid for their work and just get back to work already. That's what's good for the industry.

@Ilikesoup I wanna go off on a big rant, but I feel like it would just go over your head so all I'll say is it's fairly normal to be paid for the time that you work, and not on estimates.

@Ilikesoup I didn't realize Brendan McNamara had a Joystiq account.

@ORTHROK
Why do you post some many negative and trolling comments? Stop it.

@Ilikesoup go work 120 hours a week for a boss that disrespects you, with no clear design goals and constant crunch times, then go complain.

@Assmar
They should really take these things into consideration when reviewing games. Sure the product may be outstanding (which it really isn't in this case), but if it meant that 100's of devs were abused and treated so poorly, then it's not worth buying the game.

@Osnaz
I can understand making a moral consumer choice, but no way should this type of thing be considered in reviews. Are you saying The Shining should be docked stars, or whatever rating system you use, because Kubrck treated Shelley Duvall poorly? Should we give bad ratings to the new iPhone because they're made in sweatshops?

@MLS

I think it's fair to consider this type of information in the context of a review or consideration for GOTY if this knowledge affects your enjoyment of the product. If knowledge of the crappy working conditions keeps you from being able to fully engage and enjoy something, then it has affected the end product.

@Faceless Troll

*Hands faceless troll a badge*

Here you go, you can take the job, no longer just a simple faceless troll, but also a grammar troll.

Book 'em troll

@Faceless Troll
I don't think anyone even proof read this article.

"More and more, it is seems?" C'mon editor.

@Stevetrop Man of Mystery
It always puzzles me how people who are, by definition, too damned lazy to spell correctly (much less, learn how to properly use a comma), will get their dander up and put in so much effort to lambast anyone who calls them on it.

Poor spelling and grammar make the writer look stupid. It's especially poor form when seen on a news site, even if it is "just a gaming blog." Proofreading is a good thing.

@Deuce

They're not journalists, there is little to no editing, and gaming blogs are really just a way for people to elbow their way into the periphery of the industry so they can feel they have a voice. The only difference between a post in the comment section and a post on the site is that the site posters are (presumably) getting a paycheck for their contributions.

While a love of language is admirable, perspective is always important.

@freaparn If you expect shit then shit is what you'll get.

@gordeaux

Exactly my point. Gaming blogs are generally shit for writing, but they're useful for collecting news articles from various sites with a common theme. Fast food joints sell shit for food, but they're useful when you want a quick bite on the go. You don't walk into McDonald's expecting filet mignon, and you don't go to a blog expecting professional journalism.

@freaparn It's kind of hilarious that your standards for professional journalism amounts to "capable of writing at a 6th grade level."

@Faceless Troll

Actually, when they were posting their two weekend writer positions, they stressed good grammar and avoiding typos. I guess it only applies to incoming writers, not existing ones.

@Faceless Troll

Is it almost as hilarious as you attempting to extrapolate that claim out of what I wrote? I never gave one example of, or made reference to, what I would consider professional journalism. I know it's contrary nature for a troll, but don't go reading into something that isn't there.

@oOWallaceOo
Rockstar wasn't the source of the problem, it was the dictatorial managers (specifically Brendan McNamara) who led Team Bondi. If anything, Rockstar were good guys in this.

@Osnaz

From what I read via e-mails and information conditions were atrocious.

It grown so far that as quoted by eurogamer that "Rockstar will NOT publish Team Bondi's next game out of "disdain""

Here are some quote through emails and messages from anonymous individuals in the condition in the games development.

Source: "We barely had any animators for such a long time, it was crazy. People have mentioned how the open world in L.A. Noire is wasted because the world is so boring. The reason was because no animators wanted to work at Team Bondi. There was no Lead Animator from January 2008 until the end of the game, and for large parts of production we only had one animator working on gameplay animations (any others were doing cinematic animations). This meant that there was no way to add life to the world. It's a perfect example of why staff retention is important, was ignored by the leads at Team Bondi, and the game suffered for it."

Source: "The other point that was a huge point of contention was a line in the additional working hours scheme: "Should your employment end, prior to 3 months after the end of the project, it will be at the Company's discretion whether payment will be made."

"This meant that many people felt obligated to continue working under the poor conditions because they feared that the company would not pay up the overtime they had accrued. "Company's discretion" is incredibly vague, so nobody wanted to publicly speak out about the working conditions in case there was retribution from management. Then there was the issue of when the overtime was due to be paid - we (rightly) assumed that people would be made redundant at the end of the project, so would these people still be paid their overtime since they wouldn't be with Team Bondi three months after the end of the project? Also, since the overtime was only to be paid out at the end of the project, it meant that if the game failed and Team Bondi went bankrupt, then nobody would have received overtime payment. Team Bondi being shut down was always a very real possibility for us, it was only thanks to Rockstar's bankrolling that they continued to survive. I mention these points to enforce that it was always very unclear whether this overtime would be paid."


Neogaf has a slew of information about the issues dealing with the game. From gameindustry and eurogamer and the like

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=436228

@Osnaz

Ok, maybe I was quick to point the finger squarley at Rockstar. After reading the rest of the comments here (I will read the full source article when I can) I can see that the blame does fall at the management of Team Bondi, but personally I don't think Rockstar is completely innocent in the whole ordeal.

@DigitalEmporer

Yeah maybe it was just them being authentic and paying them at a 1940's pay scale.

@DigitalEmporer
If you actually read the source, Rockstar is portrayed as being helpful to the actual devs, even intervening against the wishes of McNamara.

Everything I've read about this incident makes McNamara out to be the real villain, and every time he opens his mouth he confirms it. The man celebrates the fact that he ruined people's lives in order to produce an average game with some impressive mocap technology tacked on.

@Osnaz

"If you actually read the source..."

Source is locked behind a spywall. You can use the following account to read it:

E-mail: joystiq@yahoo.com
Password: joystiq

@Osnaz

Exactly. The source we CAN NOT see. So please, refrain from making claims you have no proof over.

@DigitalEmporer
Again, if you took the time to even search this up you would find numerous media outlets that pull quotes from the source.

@copa
Thanks Copa.

@The Tim They'll just have another studio work on it.

@Faceless Troll

That and the ending. Huh? Shut up!

@The Tim

The bizarre thing is that in their most recent earnings call, Rockstar implied that LA Noire would be a continuing franchise for them. It makes you wonder who owns the rights to the IP.

The source article says that Rockstar doesn't intend to work with Team Bondi again in the future.

And in the previous IGN article, McNamara himself said his studio won't be based in Australia for future games. Which basically means laying off almost all of his existing workforce and starting from scratch somewhere else. Who's up for a brand new 7-year adventure working for McNamara!!! Anybody?

Unless Rockstar has acquired all IP rights to LA Noire and is hiring the Team Bondi guys into its own Australia-based studio, I don't see how a sequel gets made this decade.

@jtsuth

What happens in the end? Do you wake up and realize it's all a dream, and that's why you were still able to solve cases even though you picked all the wrong answers?

@CPRxChris It's not as if Rockstar's history is spotless. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26907/Rockstar_Saddened_By_Employee_Treatment_Allegations.php

Apparently you didnt hear about Red Dead Redemption's development. Moral of the story is dont work on a Rockstar project.

@CPRxChris
It wasn't Rockstar, it was the heads of Team Bondi that overworked the employees.

@CPRxChris

Please re-read the article.

@Lucky48 "And although the existence of the highly-reported employee claims were acknowledged, they were broadly dismissed; Rockstar's response did not explicitly mention any of the specific complaints."

Complaints. Plural. Implies more than one person.

Reading comprehension isn't big around these parts. We 'stiqers follow hearsay and scuttlebutt.

@Twigg To be fair Joystiq didn't link the article in question, merely linked another Joystiq article and the ability to search for L.A. Noire on Joystiq. You're right though, the majority of the blame should go on Team Bondi management. At the same time a publisher does have a lot of control over a developer and should have had a general idea of what was going on in the studio. If they didn't know what was going on, that is not a good thing for them. If they did, it's even worse.

@collinc From what I heard, Rockstar did everything it could to help out, including having their own employees (programmers, designers, artists, etc) to help finish the game. I know Rockstar doesn't have a great history, but I think we have to give them the credit they deserve on this one and give them a tip of the hat.

@Twigg Yeah after someone posted a comment that gave a username and password for the source article I went in and read that, and understand better. I guess it took them some time but they did figure out there was a giant douche managing things.