Team Fortress 2 Free2BeKicked mod creator speaks on F2P transition
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Turns out the guy who created the "Free2BeKicked" mod for Team Fortress 2 (that kicks players who joined after the free-to-play changeover off of private servers completely) doesn't have the courage of his convictions. His name is Asher Baker, and Giant Bomb held a quick interview with him, in which he says he's not in favor of banning new players just because they wanted to check out a free game.
He does, however, say that "a community needs a barrier to entry," and "if there is no barrier to entry -- and no recourse against those people [who take advantage] -- it could be bad." Users are unhappy about the mod, though Valve hasn't made a ruling on it just yet (and while Baker says the company probably wouldn't be happy with it, it is running on private servers, presumably out of Valve's reach). Baker says he's even received death threats about the mod, but given that this is a game about shooting, stabbing and generally blowing other players up, who knows how serious those are.
In the end, Baker says free-to-play could go either way for the game's community. "It's brought in lots of new players, but I'm not sure it's worth the long-term cost," he says. "I think that once the droves of inexperienced players dies down, we're going to be left with a (slow) steady stream of new players, but primarily just cheaters and people evading server bans."
He does, however, say that "a community needs a barrier to entry," and "if there is no barrier to entry -- and no recourse against those people [who take advantage] -- it could be bad." Users are unhappy about the mod, though Valve hasn't made a ruling on it just yet (and while Baker says the company probably wouldn't be happy with it, it is running on private servers, presumably out of Valve's reach). Baker says he's even received death threats about the mod, but given that this is a game about shooting, stabbing and generally blowing other players up, who knows how serious those are.
In the end, Baker says free-to-play could go either way for the game's community. "It's brought in lots of new players, but I'm not sure it's worth the long-term cost," he says. "I think that once the droves of inexperienced players dies down, we're going to be left with a (slow) steady stream of new players, but primarily just cheaters and people evading server bans."
Reader Comments (77)
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:06PM Captain x Kirby said
Death Threats! That's pretty insane over a video game mod of which is only used on a small amount of servers.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 9:46AM radioactivez0r said
@Captain x Kirby I can't imagine how hard it is in the Age of the Internet to determine what qualifies as a "real" death threat. Someone raging and yelling I'M GONNA KILL YOU probably doesn't qualify, but how does one know? :\
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Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:20PM Scuffles said
@radioactivez0r
I'm of the mind that they should treat these threats as entirely serious, locate their senders and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Just as they would any other nutjob that dispatches a death threat towards someone.
Hell If they had sent the same death threat to the white house they would probably have the FBI on their doorstep within the hour and be in jail for the next 3 years regardless of the threats viability.
At the end of the day its just as unacceptable either way and for such a paltry issue.
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I'm of the mind that they should treat these threats as entirely serious, locate their senders and prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Just as they would any other nutjob that dispatches a death threat towards someone.
Hell If they had sent the same death threat to the white house they would probably have the FBI on their doorstep within the hour and be in jail for the next 3 years regardless of the threats viability.
At the end of the day its just as unacceptable either way and for such a paltry issue.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:09PM My Prerogative said
It's not really his decision to make if there's a barrier to entry. He didn't make the game.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:34PM Anticrawl said
@My Prerogative
But it is his decision... what are you a communist? A server owner pays for and maintains their server. Just because they are nice enough to allow public access doesn't mean they can't screen users. A FTP user who is visiting a server is eating up valuable resources a paying user could take up, the paying user being more likely to make server contributions to keep it running. It is perfectly reasonable. Move down to Cuba if you don't like it, I bet they have great internet and TF2 servers there.
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But it is his decision... what are you a communist? A server owner pays for and maintains their server. Just because they are nice enough to allow public access doesn't mean they can't screen users. A FTP user who is visiting a server is eating up valuable resources a paying user could take up, the paying user being more likely to make server contributions to keep it running. It is perfectly reasonable. Move down to Cuba if you don't like it, I bet they have great internet and TF2 servers there.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:47PM The Wicker Man said
@My Prerogative It isn't his decision. Does anybody on the internet have the power of reading comprehension? .vALVE itself did not issue this or force it. Some of us on private servers only want to play with serious players. As for the cheaters...they are the scum of the fu*king earth. I will never be able to grasp the point of cheating in multiplayer as becoming better is the pay off. It speaks volumes to an intstant gratification culture. To be fair, there were and are loads of cheaters in 2fort. Everyone does have to start somewhere, but the experienced players should be able to play the way we have been for years.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:36AM Kimchi Kommando said
@Anticrawl
Off the topic. . . I couldn't help but notice how people always use Russia or Cuba as an example of communism, but not China. It's like using Mexico as an example of Democracy.
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Off the topic. . . I couldn't help but notice how people always use Russia or Cuba as an example of communism, but not China. It's like using Mexico as an example of Democracy.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 2:55AM Jennacide said
@My Prerogative
Did you even read what he said? He even states that he doesn't believe it should be used, but knows that some servers will want it so he made it. The f2p player base has been pretty grim so far, I've seen stuff that I wish I hadn't, like 3 heavies shooting AT THEIR OWN TEAM SENTRY and asking why it wouldn't die. Either they were trolling or incredibly stupid, either way server owners have all right to put this mod on to lower the amount of dumb they have to deal with.
And it has the added bonus of helping weed out the new wave of aimbotters I'm seeing.
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Did you even read what he said? He even states that he doesn't believe it should be used, but knows that some servers will want it so he made it. The f2p player base has been pretty grim so far, I've seen stuff that I wish I hadn't, like 3 heavies shooting AT THEIR OWN TEAM SENTRY and asking why it wouldn't die. Either they were trolling or incredibly stupid, either way server owners have all right to put this mod on to lower the amount of dumb they have to deal with.
And it has the added bonus of helping weed out the new wave of aimbotters I'm seeing.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 7:51AM sydweis said
@Kimchi Kommando
china is hardly a communist state anymore compared to cuba and russia. with a free market economy(or close to one as possible) china is hardly a communist threat and when the old rulers pass on i doubt we'll see any future implications of communism in china
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china is hardly a communist state anymore compared to cuba and russia. with a free market economy(or close to one as possible) china is hardly a communist threat and when the old rulers pass on i doubt we'll see any future implications of communism in china
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:11PM Cavall said
Seriously, death threats? Over something that was FREE? I actually was reall let down hearing this. Theres a lot of actual problems in this world, throwing threats towards a guy for this doesnt seem on par with a strong grip of reality.
Its for private servers, and the people running said servers made that choice. theres other servers, just play one of those.
Its for private servers, and the people running said servers made that choice. theres other servers, just play one of those.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:17PM Kilaybay said
I don't really get how the free-to-play people can demand that Valve ban the mod, such as they're doing. I mean, it's like, what are they gonna do, spend less money than free? Boycot it? They don't really hold any leeway.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:06AM Special Agent Steve said
@Kilaybay
I think the biggest problem is all the cheaters.
Hard to argue for free to play when people who cheat ruin the game for paid customers.
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I think the biggest problem is all the cheaters.
Hard to argue for free to play when people who cheat ruin the game for paid customers.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 1:21AM BananaBoat said
@Special Agent Steve - That, and griefers. If anyone can grief/be a dick/etc, get banned, then come back on a new account, it becomes really hard to keep a server in order. Trust me, I know, because I was an admin for an IRC channel for years, and people would come in, be a dick, get banned, and be back within minutes with a new account. When you've got a thousand users on your IRC channel, it quickly becomes chaotic when people are ban evading.
Making people pay for a copy of TF2, while a small barrier, is still an important one when it comes to keeping trolls out.
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Making people pay for a copy of TF2, while a small barrier, is still an important one when it comes to keeping trolls out.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:19PM Assmar said
I was just wondering if the TF2 beta is also free to play, if not you can all make the switch now, and Valve can have all those free testers. What a brilliant move on their part.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:33AM The Aquacharger said
@Assmar
The beta sucks. NO HATS! Your weapon's stats change constantly and various other things.
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The beta sucks. NO HATS! Your weapon's stats change constantly and various other things.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 2:52AM TheBrainninja said
@The Aquacharger
NO HATS, NO PLAY.
Get yer Teams out of my Hat Hatress 2.
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NO HATS, NO PLAY.
Get yer Teams out of my Hat Hatress 2.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:19PM Vocality said
Been playing for a couple of years now..never seen a cheater.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:35PM KayinAngel said
@Stuwie Been playing since release day as well, and I have seen a fair amount of cheaters. The better ones are the ones you can't tell they are cheating, so naturally, they might have gone unnoticed.
Was admin on a server i played often, so was able to ban 'em after verifying they were cheating (usually, by just observing them; aimbots are easy to spot for example. minor speedhacks not as much, unless you are pretty familliar with how fast a class is supposed to be going.).
The real rule of thumb though i find is this: play on a server you know. if you know the regulars, and who is admin (and if admin's are around) then anybody cheating or even griefing are usually gone pretty fast.
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Was admin on a server i played often, so was able to ban 'em after verifying they were cheating (usually, by just observing them; aimbots are easy to spot for example. minor speedhacks not as much, unless you are pretty familliar with how fast a class is supposed to be going.).
The real rule of thumb though i find is this: play on a server you know. if you know the regulars, and who is admin (and if admin's are around) then anybody cheating or even griefing are usually gone pretty fast.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:40PM twocows said
@Stuwie
It's called "TEAM" Fortress 2. When 10 people on your team are trying to be spies because they're idiot free weekende-- sorry, idiot f2players, it's hard not to get upset with them. Server regulars can no longer get in because too many f2players are clogging up the server doing dumb crap and making the gameplay experience less fun all around.
I don't care what people say, on servers that my friends host on their equipment (using funds I have donated), we should be able to choose how to moderate our own server. Free players can find a different server; it's not a big deal. Valve has said themselves to at least three or four of my complains (such as the one about servers falsifying their numbers with bots that have spoofed pings so they look like players) that players are free to go to another server (e.g., man up and deal with it).
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It's called "TEAM" Fortress 2. When 10 people on your team are trying to be spies because they're idiot free weekende-- sorry, idiot f2players, it's hard not to get upset with them. Server regulars can no longer get in because too many f2players are clogging up the server doing dumb crap and making the gameplay experience less fun all around.
I don't care what people say, on servers that my friends host on their equipment (using funds I have donated), we should be able to choose how to moderate our own server. Free players can find a different server; it's not a big deal. Valve has said themselves to at least three or four of my complains (such as the one about servers falsifying their numbers with bots that have spoofed pings so they look like players) that players are free to go to another server (e.g., man up and deal with it).
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:43PM thelolotov said
@Vocality That's because there was VAC and a 20 dollar price of entry.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:21PM Butmac said
Really? Death threats?
"Hey man! I just got booted cause of your mod. The Heavy seems fun to play as. I want to check out this game now that it's free. I hear it has a lot of funny hats and achievements. Oh yeah, I'm gonna kill you."
"Hey man! I just got booted cause of your mod. The Heavy seems fun to play as. I want to check out this game now that it's free. I hear it has a lot of funny hats and achievements. Oh yeah, I'm gonna kill you."
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:28PM adr916 said
doesnt tf2 have an option to coach a noob? whats the point of it if the elite players dont want to help and are banning people who are playing free n maybe arent good "yet"
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:59PM birdizzle87 said
@adr916
If the TF2 community is anything like the L4D community, which is looks like it is, then good luck with that. Soooo many rude, immature people on there.
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If the TF2 community is anything like the L4D community, which is looks like it is, then good luck with that. Soooo many rude, immature people on there.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:29PM Banana Hammock said
I consider a majority of the F2P players are below the age of 14.
A death threat email from XL33tPwnzor6969@yahoo.com would hardly seem threatening.
A death threat email from XL33tPwnzor6969@yahoo.com would hardly seem threatening.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:31PM Dr said
The only difference I've seen since the game went F2P is that "veteran" players are way more whiny than usual. Aside from that, it's business as usual.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:53PM The Wicker Man said
@Dr. I cannot imagine listening to a higher degree of bitching in 2Fort. Im talking Bieber mike spam bad. Bieber tag bad.
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Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:35PM (Unverified) said
@Dr
"a community needs a barrier to entry," and "if there is no barrier to entry -- and no recourse against those people [who take advantage] -- it could be bad."
Who the hell does he think he is, speaking for the community..
This attitude toward new players is absolutely ridiculous. I've been playing TF2 since beta, consider myself a veteran, and have always loved the game not only for being F'ing awesome, but for the community.
Though It's a sad day when i see everyone complaining about new players. We were all there at one time, forgetting to push the cart etc. So they didn't have to pay for a game we had to pay what...20 bucks for, 4 years ago. Who cares?
Why not help out the new players and make them feel welcome? This elitism is BS, and the guy that wrote that mod is full of BS too. I always thought the TF2 community to be far more cool than this.
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"a community needs a barrier to entry," and "if there is no barrier to entry -- and no recourse against those people [who take advantage] -- it could be bad."
Who the hell does he think he is, speaking for the community..
This attitude toward new players is absolutely ridiculous. I've been playing TF2 since beta, consider myself a veteran, and have always loved the game not only for being F'ing awesome, but for the community.
Though It's a sad day when i see everyone complaining about new players. We were all there at one time, forgetting to push the cart etc. So they didn't have to pay for a game we had to pay what...20 bucks for, 4 years ago. Who cares?
Why not help out the new players and make them feel welcome? This elitism is BS, and the guy that wrote that mod is full of BS too. I always thought the TF2 community to be far more cool than this.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:32PM SpaceGhostFlyer said
@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
Technically speaking, we can all "suck a dick".
Technically speaking, we can all "suck a dick".
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:34PM FreakSheet said
Well, to quote The Heavy, Barker, about your opinion of free-to-play...
CRY SUM MOOOOAR!!
CRY SUM MOOOOAR!!
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:35PM DBuckEye said
"cheaters and people evading server bans."
You know, even after it went free, I have never seen a hacker or cheater in TF2. I'm sure they are somewhere, but nowhere near as bad as other F2P games I've played.
You know, even after it went free, I have never seen a hacker or cheater in TF2. I'm sure they are somewhere, but nowhere near as bad as other F2P games I've played.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:03AM The Wicker Man said
@DBuckEye could be worse, could be counter strike source or day of defeat source.
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:38PM Anticrawl said
Just so we are clear before there are more ignorant comments nearly EVERY single privately hosted server on TF2 has priority slots for players. Before FTP players you had paying users who hadn't yet contributed to server upkeep and those who frequently do. If the server donating user wants a slot then the server will automatically eject one of the non-paying members. This is standard functionality in ALL PC games that support privately run dedicated servers. ALL OF THEM. If not all then any decent server worth your time visiting, a 512fps server. Just because we added a new level of users, FTP, doesn't change the way it works.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:47PM Dr said
@Anticrawl
I can't claim to know the percentage of servers running resslots of some kind, but it certainly isn't "nearly every" and I'd be surprised if it was more than half.
I know I'm more likely to donate to a server that treats everyone equally, rather than donating to a server to avoid being kicked for not donating...
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I can't claim to know the percentage of servers running resslots of some kind, but it certainly isn't "nearly every" and I'd be surprised if it was more than half.
I know I'm more likely to donate to a server that treats everyone equally, rather than donating to a server to avoid being kicked for not donating...
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 11:09AM Stuwie said
The spies I get can be a pain but when valve updated each class one by one you would get into games and damn near everyone was what ever class that got updated to get all the new achievements we are basically back to that again when all the new people figure out what class is best for them things will balance out again at least I hope so
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Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:56PM The Wicker Man said
@Ezio Auditore da Firenze You're so wordy and good with that mouth, I bet you could give the best ball slimer of the all. ;) I love ya, but you are off base with that comment.
Posted: Jul 7th 2011 11:56PM Cleric said
@Ezio Auditore da Firenze
god forbid he run the server the way he wants to. i'm sure you didn't read it, of course.
god forbid he run the server the way he wants to. i'm sure you didn't read it, of course.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:01AM PointlessPuppies said
Having played the game quite a while after it going Free 2 Play, I can't say I'm too crazy about the newcomers. I was already having issues with players who didn't do any teamwork at all since BEFORE F2P, now it's far worse. Yesterday I spent an ENTIRE round defending the payload by myself with absolutely no help from anyone. I have no clue what any of the other teammates were doing, but they sure as hell weren't doing what they were supposed to and defend the payload, even despite me saying multiple times in text and over the mic "I NEED BACKUP AT THE PAYLOAD".
This isn't TEAM Fortress 2 anymore. Not by a long shot. It's People Loosely on the Same Sides Sometimes, Maybe Fortress 2. Again, there were issues with that since before F2P, but now it's made the game pretty much unplayable.
That's not to say I support this mod, because to me kicking new players out of a server's Thuper Thecret Treehouse (NO GURLZ ALLOWED) is just infantile. But at the same time it's hasn't been exactly roses and ponies since the F2P went live.
This isn't TEAM Fortress 2 anymore. Not by a long shot. It's People Loosely on the Same Sides Sometimes, Maybe Fortress 2. Again, there were issues with that since before F2P, but now it's made the game pretty much unplayable.
That's not to say I support this mod, because to me kicking new players out of a server's Thuper Thecret Treehouse (NO GURLZ ALLOWED) is just infantile. But at the same time it's hasn't been exactly roses and ponies since the F2P went live.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:04AM Dhexodus said
Why do FTP players feel self-entitled to a game they never paid for?
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:35AM Doctor Wingnut said
@Dhexodus
Because the game maker decided that they could have it for free? I'm not going to give you a set of dice, and then say you have to give half of them to my friend if he sits down at the table.
There's a degree of reasonable entitlement. Being able to join servers falls into that. Now, if the F2Pers, (Of which I am included because I didn't have a computer that could run any games until a few days ago.) start complaining because they were kicked off the server to give a player that pays their slot, then they are overstepping their boundaries. But getting kicked off because someone created a mod to auto-kick them regardless of how many players are on the server is reasonable to complain about.
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Because the game maker decided that they could have it for free? I'm not going to give you a set of dice, and then say you have to give half of them to my friend if he sits down at the table.
There's a degree of reasonable entitlement. Being able to join servers falls into that. Now, if the F2Pers, (Of which I am included because I didn't have a computer that could run any games until a few days ago.) start complaining because they were kicked off the server to give a player that pays their slot, then they are overstepping their boundaries. But getting kicked off because someone created a mod to auto-kick them regardless of how many players are on the server is reasonable to complain about.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:41AM ComedyInK said
@Dhexodus
The same reason as you people keep trying to justify a purchase of a game that is now F2P.
And I've hardly have read any "F2Pers" complain about this, it's mostly people that have been playing a long time on both sides of the fence about the mod.
Personally, could care less, because there are more that 100 different servers if I get rejected because of the mod. But OF COURSE Server Admins could make it an option to let people with a certain time (25-50 Hours Player) in the server.
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The same reason as you people keep trying to justify a purchase of a game that is now F2P.
And I've hardly have read any "F2Pers" complain about this, it's mostly people that have been playing a long time on both sides of the fence about the mod.
Personally, could care less, because there are more that 100 different servers if I get rejected because of the mod. But OF COURSE Server Admins could make it an option to let people with a certain time (25-50 Hours Player) in the server.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 1:35AM PointlessPuppies said
@Dhexodus
*facepalm*
The word "self-entitled" is quickly becoming one of my biggest pet peeves on the interwebs, because of people like you who don't even know how to use it.
Before using that term, stop and ask yourself if it even makes sense. Exactly WHAT are the people you're accusing of being self-entitled of doing? If you can't answer that question without sounding ridiculous, you probably shouldn't use that term.
WHAT are F2P players feeling wrongly self-entitled to? A game that Valve literally gave to them for free? Are they wrongly feeling entitled to...oh, I don't know, actually PLAYING said game they got for free? They didn't ask for it. Back when TF2 was a paid product they didn't go and say "VALVE SHOULD MAKE THIS FREE TO PLAY. I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT AT ALL BUT I FEEL LIKE VALVE OWES ME THIS GAME". That's self-entitlement. Expecting to play a free game that was given to them by Valve voluntarily is NOT self entitlement at all.
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*facepalm*
The word "self-entitled" is quickly becoming one of my biggest pet peeves on the interwebs, because of people like you who don't even know how to use it.
Before using that term, stop and ask yourself if it even makes sense. Exactly WHAT are the people you're accusing of being self-entitled of doing? If you can't answer that question without sounding ridiculous, you probably shouldn't use that term.
WHAT are F2P players feeling wrongly self-entitled to? A game that Valve literally gave to them for free? Are they wrongly feeling entitled to...oh, I don't know, actually PLAYING said game they got for free? They didn't ask for it. Back when TF2 was a paid product they didn't go and say "VALVE SHOULD MAKE THIS FREE TO PLAY. I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR IT AT ALL BUT I FEEL LIKE VALVE OWES ME THIS GAME". That's self-entitlement. Expecting to play a free game that was given to them by Valve voluntarily is NOT self entitlement at all.
Posted: Jul 8th 2011 12:13AM warmonk said
I have a thought that may SHOCK and ASTOUND you. If you come across a server running this mod and can't play on it, go join one of the HUNDREDS OF OTHER SERVERS NOT RUNNING IT.








