| Mail |
You might also like: WoW Insider, Massively, and more

Reader Comments (118)

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:34PM xiLeShadow said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
I'm going to copy and paste something I said on the forums explaining why they want this before anyone starts making up fantoy excuses and the like.

"This means that Sony is attempting to pause or destroy any chance of a class-action lawsuit from consumers against Sony. In law, a class action or a representative action is a form of lawsuit in which a large group of people collectively bring a claim to court and/or in which a class of defendants is being sued.

For example, lets say you buy a car that has problems. In addition, many other owners of that same car also has those problems. If all of you join together and file a suit against the car maker, this would be considered a class-action lawsuit.

What Sony is attempting to do is destroy any chance of consumers "rioting up" as a collective force against them. This is bad for consumers because its much easier for the corporation to win lawsuits if its against a sole person. In addition, its much harder for an individual to keep up with the expensive finances of a law suit if he/she is by themselves. Sony is a rich corporation so they finance that easily. Also, if Sony were to lose that court battle against the individual, Sony would only be required to fulfill the outcome of that case to that sole person. Not millions of people like a class-action lawsuit.

A divided force is always a weaker force and Sony would rather go against that weaker force if a conflict ever happens."
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:41PM mywhitenoise said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@xiLeShadow
Basically, well...if we get hacked again and compromise your personal information, or deliver a defective console (like the infamous 360 RROD), it's not our fault. This is total BS, and I'm surprised it took Joystiq this long to publish.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:43PM Ellimem said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@xiLeShadow

Great points across the board, however, this may backfire if the first person wins against Sony and sets the legal precedent for the case. That may bring out many more people who will have a much easier time winning with that precedent and overall, Sony will lose more money.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:44PM Syesta said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@mywhitenoise
Not at all. It's their fault, but you have to deal with them on an individual basis, as opposed to through a Class Action.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:47PM xiLeShadow said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ellimem

I'm pretty sure Sony would find ways to settle those claims, claims that have a high chance of winning, out of court.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:49PM Ordeith said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Ellimem

In arbitration there is no legal precedent. Sony will simply select another arbiter (remember this is Sony's choice) that is more likely to side with them on all future claims. One person winning will not make it easier for others to do so.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:55PM Ellimem said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ordeith

True. Didn't think of that at all. I sure hope nobody gets screwed on this. 25 million people are going to blindly accept terms as we have been trained to do by redundancy, and now that it is finally important that it be read...

Facebook may have some crappy architecture and security, but at least they email you for every ToS update.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 7:33PM Haizeus said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Ellimem

Just as Sony emailed everyone with this news two days ago. While I find their motives suspect (almost as much as I find the whining annoying), no one can say that they're doing this undercover.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 7:39PM kmcroc said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@xiLeShadow you are my
hero. LOL thanks for the info.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 8:18PM Scuffles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@xiLeShadow

Maybe just maybe consumers will actually see this and grow a collective spine. Or probably just click Accept and then stare like a deer in the headlights when Sony laughs at them the next time something classactionable happens.

Its one of those junctions where people get what they deserve based on their decisions.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 9:18PM (Unverified) said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@xiLeShadow

Also, the purpose of Class Actions:

Because the US has weaker consumer protection laws, Class Action suits are a way to punish companies for wrong doing and keep them slightly more honest.

In actuality, most Class Actions enrich the lawyers and hurt the corporations. This is because awards are split between the very large group of class members while the lawyers take a large cut (obviously). This is slightly justified because Class Action Suits against a big company like Sony are hugely expensive for the firm to handle.

Anyhow, this basically means that while you probably won'r recoup much either way, it's harder to punish Sony.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 10:53PM Ellimem said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Haizeus

Sony has two different emails of mine for two different accounts, neither one of them has gotten an email.
Reply

Posted: Sep 19th 2011 11:57AM Rahabib said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Haizeus
of course they send out the email AFTER they already mandated the TOS update. AND they didnt specifically state what they changed, only stated that there was a change.

Its still very sleazy.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:34PM Syesta said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court recently set a precedent that companies can force mandatory binding arbitration on services as long as an opt out is available.
Until that is reversed, you are going to see more and more companies go this route.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:41PM Courtney said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Syesta

The update case law needs to be that opting out is as easy as accepting.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:42PM Courtney said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Courtney

Wow, grammar fail. The update *to* case law...
Reply

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 7:39AM ShivanSwordsman said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Syesta

Is it just me or has the Supreme Court been doing a bang-up job of setting fire to the constitution that founded America? Apparently, they saw what's going on in China... and they really, really like that system over there.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:35PM berzirk said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
PSN Updated ToS-When you just don't give an eff about consumer goodwill.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:39PM mywhitenoise said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
I'm sending my letter stating I wish not to be apart of this. Sony is trying destroy a freedom that is looking out to protect their consumers.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 7:43PM Chris DPSN AggieCEO XBLThe Aggi said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@mywhitenoise so you didn't accept the terms on your PS3? I haven't logged out since they updated it so I haven't agreed to it yet
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:40PM blackangel209 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I'm curious, does the XBL ToS have anything similar to this?
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:51PM Acosta02 said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@blackangel209

You can read; you figure it out.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/legal/livetou
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 7:12PM blackangel209 said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@Acosta02 Wow, way to be abrasive dude. I didn't ask anyone to trudge through the legal BS of a ToS, I was just wondering if anyone knew it off the top of their head. And you would realize that if your first reaction wasn't to be a dick.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 8:22PM Scuffles said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
@blackangel209

Ctrl+F
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 8:34PM Scuffles said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Seems there is some arbitration clause for Singapore not sure how similar, didn't notice one for the US or EU. But if they don't have one yet you can expect one of two things to happen and they will be watching the reaction to Sony very closely.

A) They won't add anything similar if there is a large negative reaction to Sony trying to pull this TOS Chicanery.

B) If it seems to get a general Blah reaction and people hit Accept like sheep ...... this will be added to their TOS faster than you can say "class action" three times fast.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:42PM Dick Socrates said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
Doesn't seem fair somehow... my justice detector is pretty sharp.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:42PM Courtney said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
I'm tempted to take the time and stamp to opt-out, just for the principle of the matter. I get very tired of companies trying to nullify consumer rights through Terms of Service.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:51PM Ordeith said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Courtney

Better go certified, don't want to take the chance the letter will be *lost*
Reply

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 11:10AM pluupy said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ordeith
Highlight the corners of that s***t!
Send multiple!
Make it a flippin postcard of an angry mob!
Reply

Posted: Sep 19th 2011 11:59AM Rahabib said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ordeith

thats what I am doing. certified mail. SONY deserves what they get.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:43PM Sidon said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
"The Japanese consumer electronics giant..."

Or, "the company."

Jeez.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:43PM Ignatius said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
I assume there's no way to opt out of this since it's a mandatory update?
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:43PM Ignatius said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ignatius

Besides the obvious never connect to PSN again.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:45PM Syesta said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ignatius
Send the letter
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:46PM mywhitenoise said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@Ignatius
"RIGHT TO OPT OUT OF BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER WITHIN 30 DAYS. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE BOUND BY THE BINDING ARBITRATION AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER IN THIS SECTION 15, YOU MUST NOTIFY SNEI IN WRITING WITHIN 30 DAYS OF THE DATE THAT YOU ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT. YOUR WRITTEN NOTIFICATION MUST BE MAILED TO 6080 CENTER DRIVE, 10TH FLOOR, LOS ANGELES, CA 90045, ATTN: LEGAL DEPARTMENT/ARBITRATION AND MUST INCLUDE: (1) YOUR NAME, (2) YOUR ADDRESS, (3) YOUR PSN ACCOUNT NUMBER, IF YOU HAVE ONE, AND (4) A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION."
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:53PM blackangel209 said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
@mywhitenoise "A CLEAR STATEMENT THAT YOU DO NOT WISH TO RESOLVE DISPUTES WITH ANY SONY ENTITY THROUGH ARBITRATION."

Does this mean that in order to opt out you have to give them a written document that states the same thing anyway? Seems kinda...off.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 9:52PM Ignatius said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@Ignatius

Huh, either those weren't there when I commented or I totally missed them.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:46PM Acosta02 said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
That is a pretty dope little slidey window there. Hopefully it means an end to Jordan's huge walls of text.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:48PM ColorblindMonk said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I would say something, but it won't matter. After about a month me and everyone here will forget about it and play our PS3 games without all the stupid drama.
Reply

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 2:51AM VideoGameFan said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@ColorblindMonk

Never mind the man behind that curtain...
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:50PM Crayola Q Pants ESQ said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
I'm all for saving money and all, but this seems like a pretty sleazy business move
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:50PM DigitalEmporer said

  • Half a heart
  • Report
I dont really care about this to be honest.
My data is out there regardless if I am on PSN or not.

If its hacked/stolen, so be it. I have insurance to cover myself.
We live in a digital world. So I can understand how Sony have gone this route.

There will always be haters/lovers of this move from Sony, but what can we do? Live with it - or lose sleep over it. I'm choosing sleep.

Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:51PM Gooblechev said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
You'd think that wouldn't be allowed. People should be allowed to take legal action in whatever forms are legally available...

Pansy move, Sony.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:51PM pluupy said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
So we need to send a letter to them if we don't want to be apart of thier "no class-action lawsuit" thing?
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:52PM Cranky Penguin said

  • 3 hearts
  • Report
Why do game companies persist in making it really hard to enjoy this hobby? It seems to get worse by the month.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 6:55PM spin cycle said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
joystiq:
This is not presented as a "mandatory system update". The PS3 simply doesn't auto connect to PSN. Then when you connect it says you have to "read and agree to the new EULA to connect".

This is an accurate statement of the situation and is in no way masquerading as a system update. There is no system update to download, you don't so it through "system update" and it doesn't say "you have to system update to connect".

Accuracy: strive for it.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 7:04PM HydrophobicFish PSN ID Hydrophob said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@spin cycle

You're missing the point... Sure, Joystiq used some incorrect terms, but that's not what's important, or what the article is about.
What is, is the fact that there's a new ToS.

Nit-picking: Strive LESS for it.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 8:31PM spin cycle said

  • 1 heart
  • Report
@HydrophobicFish PSN ID Hydrophob

There is no excuse for not stating the case correctly. If you have a valid point, then the truth will carry it. You don't need to throw in false info.
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 8:36PM DigitalEmporer said

  • 2 hearts
  • Report
@spin cycle

Which... in turn, is a MANDATORY acceptance.
Doh. FAIL :D
Reply

Posted: Sep 16th 2011 9:51PM Startingline13 ArmlessOctopus said

  • 2.5 hearts
  • Report
@spin cycle

....But this IS in fact a mandatory update, just as every update is. You cannot play any future titles online, along with the risk of losing several other premium services such as Netflix without updating.

Have fun with that.
Reply
Sorry, you must be logged in to leave a comment.

Featured Stories

Engadget

TUAW

Massively

WoW