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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 2:39PM Dashx747 said

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He made a great point.

Inafune is one of the developers that best understand what the present and the future holds for games. He always tries to be ahead of the curve when it's about the next step to games.

Oh, and he created Mega Man. Which means he is also ahead of everyone in making crazy hard games that almost managed me to drop school to beat "insert-anything-here"-man (hey, I was 8, Mega Man seemed more important then school)(well, it kind still does)

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 2:49PM Albatross jones said

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@Dashx747 So basically inafune is the bestest in your eyes
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:10PM jkdamian said

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@Dashx747 Except he didnt create Megaman, Akira Kitamura did.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:51PM pluupy said

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@jkdamian
Could've sworn it was both Tokuro Fujiwara and Keiji Inafune...
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 5:43PM TheScientistofTomorrow said

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@pluupy Keiji drew the artwork for him, but that's about it.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 5:49PM Ericss said

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@pluupy
Inafune has stated multiple times that he didn't create Mega Man; the character was already finished by the time he became part of the MM1 development team.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:17PM Nolan North said

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@Ericss
Yes, but he is the creator of Mega Man Volnutt.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:54PM DietSoap said

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@jkdamian It's more appropriate to say Inafune created the Megaman series, as without him there would've never been a Megaman 2, and by extension, no Megaman games thereafter.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 2:42PM (Unverified) said

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"You don't stay on your iPhone or on a Smartphone game for three or five hours, nobody would do that"

People have already done this for years playing tetris or snake on monochrome cells even before smart phones came out. Now there is actually more in-depth games on smart phones that people are still playing hours on hours.

My wife can sit there and play words with friends for four hours easily balancing multiple live games at once. There are several RPG-lite games people play on the iPhone all the time, and those management sim type games as well. Hours they play. On the phone.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:03PM PN04 said

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@(Unverified)
There's a different though. Tetris or angry birds gets you to play it for hours based on simple concepts. You want something more in depth like Deus Ex or LA Noir, you play a console, and you do it for hours because the experience is dynamic. Both side are great games in their own right but for different reasons.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:07PM Warlock234 said

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Words with Friends I can see being played for hours. Any board game really, but the RPG's and FPS's on smartphones are just terrible to control. The games are good quality. Really, what would save them is a simple gamepad case that added controls similar to a psp. Smartphone gaming would skyrocket and would probably beat Nintendo DS since the graphics are as good, if not better. Companies like Gameloft could easily dominate the market this way.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:19PM Jovrick said

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You said there are "RPG lite" games on the iPhone, and I have to correct you on this:

There are about a million awful Korean java RPGs and rougelikes on the iPhone, with about 2 or 3 semi decent "lite" RPGs like Rimelands and Steam Pirates which. They're ok, but if you've played something like Paper Mario or Planescape Torment though they're not going to really cut it for you. You're going to long for those kinds of games on your phone or tablet, but they won't be there. Just another batch of 30 identical Korean java RPGs with names like "Inverse Mystical Force" and "Saga of Away Sky."

As for the "sim" games, you are talking about the roughly eighty seven thousand freemium click and share games, again with maybe 2 or 3 board game ports or strategy games that are actually decent. Those freemium games have no actual gameplay, they're just a minefield of microtransactions and facebook spamming.

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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:52PM Chanka said

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@Jovrick
This. A million times.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 5:57PM yomachaser said

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@PN04 So when I play Order and Chaos for like 5 hours leveling my priest and exploring the land what am I doing? The fact is Inafune is just as out of touch with what's available on phones as many others and as much as I respect his work I would never expect him to say he envisions a future where one of the pillars of the industry he works in gets eaten up by phones games.

The truth is there are waaaaaay to many RPGs on iphone for this opinion to be close to reality. In the end they very well may end up co-existing, but there is also the strong possibility that dedicated handhelds are headed for the great scrapheap in the sky.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 8:19PM onan said

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@yomachaser So when I play Order and Chaos for like 5 hours leveling my priest and exploring the land what am I doing?

You know exactly what you're doing. You're wasting time.

And that's not necessarily a bad thing, that's the true draw of the mobile gaming space, providing satisfying gameplay experiences when you have 5 minutes to kill waiting for a bus, or 5 hours to fill on a nonstop flight.

The point is mobile gaming is rarely "destination" gaming. Unless it's one of those very rare mobile games, you almost never sit at the desk in your class/office, glancing at the clock waiting for the chance to get out of there and fire up that game on your phone, yet more often than not that's the case for a ton of full games you play at home, from Call of Duty to Mass Effect to World of Warcraft. By design games on mobiles are meant to be non-engaging in that way, because your handheld could ring. Also, you could stop for a while, and you need to be able to come right back to it and pick up where you left off without wondering what was going on.

Dedicated gaming today allows for a level of complexity and nuance in controls and plot that is simply impossible in the mobile space without sacrificing what it means to be a mobile game.
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Posted: Sep 18th 2011 5:33PM mcnichoj said

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@onan
"you need to be able to come right back to it and pick up where you left off without wondering what was going on"
>Haven't played a RPG in months
>Boot it up
>That feel
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 2:43PM Wizardsofwaverly said

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He needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Portable gaming will die unless they make it affordable. Like the vita comes to nearly $300 with a only 4GB memory cause it doesn't come with any memory at all.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:07PM PN04 said

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@Wizardsofwaverly
What the vita comes with has no baring on his argument. It's still valid regardless of what people complain about with the Vita. A person can still go out and drop 5 or 6 hundred bucks on a tablet and still play something like Fruit Ninja for 5 hours, his purchase isnt any less valid than someone who paid 150 bucks for a tablet or phone to do the same.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:09PM Warlock234 said

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I really hope there aren't people who would actually play a game like Fruit Ninja for hours. Although I think I'm the exception, I can't play those mini iPhone games for more than 20 minutes without getting board.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:17PM baddates77 said

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@Wizardsofwaverly Next time you are out in a public area with a lot of kids see how many of them are sporting DS systems of some sort. I think the 3DS may actually have a chance now that they priced it something close to reasonable. They just need to get this $40 price tag for the games out of their heads because that's just stupid.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:33PM (Unverified) said

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@baddates77 yeah,anything in ipod touch price range is going to get crushed.

eShop needs to step up and get some cheap games,but i understand the ESRB is required which brings up the price of psp mini/DSiware
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:37PM Scuffles said

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@Warlock234

You know I sit in the back of the room ..... random rooms, I just sorta walk in and sit down..... then I proceed to play fruit ninja while glaring at everyone and muttering to myself.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:06PM KGameLover1 said

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iPhone has no hardcore games?
Ah-em.

Sword & Sorcery, Chaos Rings, and Song Summoner: Touch Edition (which is different from the original, btw) say hello.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:09PM PN04 said

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@KGameLover1
Those arent the majority of it's games though. For every 40 hours game on a portable there are a dozen for a proper console.
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Posted: Sep 19th 2011 1:02AM SSK said

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@KGameLover1

You call Chaos Rings a Hardcore Game? Funny you.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:28PM MystcLazrDragon said

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I know as long as there are still compelling games for dedicated handhelds I'll buy them. I'd rather play a game on a handheld because touchscreen controls never quite feel right. However, smart phones are becoming much more powerful. Just check out this demo for nvidia's project Kal-El a quad core cell phone processor. http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/29/nvidias-quad-core-kal-el-used-to-demo-next-gen-mobile-graphics/ It'll be a b*tch on the battery but it is still impressive.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:29PM MystcLazrDragon said

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@MystcLazrDragon Sorry that demo is for tablets Nvidia does have a quad core for cell phones too.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:56PM Jovrick said

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@MystcLazrDragon
They're getting more powerful? Who gives a shit? All that means is that your phone can run an engine and display some effects. Level design, creative mechanics, art direction, character, writing, polish, and originality; these are what matters for games. Those traits are beyond the mere presence of horsepower.

Phones and tablets are getting more powerful, but then they're becoming more and more fragmented and cluttered as the racetrack of planned obsolescence rolls on. Only a few games will even be able to show off those effects, and they're just going to be dollar tree clones like Shadowgun or on rails bullshit like Rage HD and Infinity Blade.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:11PM Axe99 said

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@MystcLazrDragon Aye, the controls are the killer - you can't beat buttons and sticks for gaming (at least the vast majority of gaming), and that's why there'll always be a market for portable gaming consoles, and it probably won't get much smaller than it is now, _but_ there's also the new market of 'lite' games for smartphones that's going crazy, and of course everyone wants to be where the money is. But if the 3DS/Vita tank (which I don't think they will), then I'll just have to get PS Suite and code my own Vita games :).
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:35PM MystcLazrDragon said

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@Jovrick The extra power means they'll be able to run full fledged games like on a dedicated handheld, that is if someone makes those games. Also with flash memory dropping in price you'll be able to download bigger games. I'm not saying that cell phones are going to replace handhelds, just that they are eventually going to be able offer full fledged games. But the controls will, in my opinion, prevent them from actually making said games and if they do they will suffer from bad controls. Gamestop is trying to remedy this by offering a tablet with a controller but no one is going to buy that sh*t. Phones will never come close to replacing dedicated handhelds. Phones will always thrive in gaming because everyone has a phone with them, but handhelds will dominate the portable gaming space because they are made specifically for games.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:34PM Scuffles said

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Strange I see a future where portable gaming consoles and smartphones ... hell even desktop PCs are all combined into a single convenient/portable universal media device.

Of course "dedicated" (see AAA) game prices will need to come down and the overall quality of "smartphone" (see largely crap) games will need to improve greatly.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 3:54PM zombieguy said

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Smartphone games may be cheaper but the data plan that goes along with a smartphone definitely isn't, at least where I live. I'd already have an iphone if it wasn't going to cost me almost $100 a month. I only buy a portable game every other month or so, so it really is more affordable than gaming on a smartphone. And the games are lengthier and higher quality too.

Smartphone gaming is indeed only going to grow, but I don't think portable gaming systems have all that much to fear yet. They can coexist. iPods are still around, after all.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:04PM KiraXD said

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@zombieguy
yeah i agree...

This is where is starts to fall gray though... your not spending 100$ on a data plan for a gaming device... youre spending money on your phone (which you do regardless if you game on it or not)

now what id ACTUALLY rather see is mobile devices like iPhones being replaced by handhelds like PSV (if the PSV could act as a phone)

i mean i currently take with me everywhere, both my iphone and ipad... if a device like the PSV came around that did all the stuff that the Vita does + all the cellular stuff... id have no problem dropping everything and toting that around instead.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 4:04PM vladn said

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I wish that video game journalists wouldn't discount Iwata's GDC 2011 Keynote so quickly. According to this Joystiq (reputable) article, Iwata has his own "interests" in what he stated during the speech. My argument is that so does Inafune or any other person making a claim ever (including this article.) Iwata, during his speech, made a simple distinction that games on consoles/handhelds prefer high content and value versus those on digital platforms (App stores and the such) prefer lower content and lower value.

Granted Iwata's company is also a "manufacturer" in the fact that they design hardware. However, that doesn't mean he should be discredited for what he stated. The truth of the matter is that games on smart phones are not meant to be deep experiences, because of that they are relatively cheaper. Our generation, however, focuses on games that are deeper and more immersive; thus will pay a premium for it. Whereas newer generations are growing up on the iPad. In fact Inafune and Iwata's speech are very similar. The fact of the matter, is that the media spins this duality in such a way that one person is "correct" and one is "deluted in self interest".

As a long time reader of Joystiq, I am dissapointed to see this distinction being made. In honest truth, the industry hasn't grown since 2008. The issue being, how can app store game prices play a part in the modern day game industry. A question that both Inafune and Iwata raise, and shouldn't be discounted because of "interest" (which is inherent in all posts, including this comment and this article)

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 4:12PM Shadowbender said

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It's beyond simple, fellas.

There are "games" and their are "video games". Video games come to video-game centric handhelds, whereas games come to the device that's more broad in the tech and entertainment space. You don't compare Clue to Assassin's Creed. So yes, coexisting together, forever is surely possible.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 4:13PM Dark Mirage said

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I'll agree to disagree this time.

The difference he's talking about is fine when comparing home consoles, but we're talking about handhelds here. I'll buy a home console for a more complete experience, yes. But on the go, you're really only looking to be carrying ONE device. There is only so much room to carry around a phone, wallet, and game device, without also needing a bag to carry them in.

My personal opinion is that Nintendo will do fine in the end. They won't be as successful as they once were, but they'll survive. I say that because their market has, and likely always will, focus more on children than adults. Children don't carry around cellphones very often, so a DS works well with that age group. But adults are much less likely to carry around a dedicated portable when they have a phone on hand, so the Vita is going to have a hell of a time finding a solid market. Especially considering how damn big that thing is.

So dedicated handhelds will survive... but they're going to be neutered. The reign of the dedicated gaming hendheld is pretty much over.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 4:27PM MW49350 said

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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh......

Let's see. He's comparing handheld games to multi-thousand dollar pieces of equipment. Interesting.

Unless I'm the only one who's not willing to pay 3000 dollars to play Super Mario Bros. on the go, then I'm sorry, but the industry is doomed. The reason cameras and the like have continued to exist is because the markup on them is huge. However, in the case of something like a handheld, it's relatively cheap, and manufacturers don't really make money on them- they make it on the games.

This guy is so off-base...

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 5:07PM Electrium said

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@MW49350

Regardless of the markup on cameras (they don't all cost $3,000, btw, you can get a DSLR for $500) the reason cameras continue to exist is because there is a market for cameras that are higher quality than the ones built in to cellphones. Inafune is saying gaming is the same way - there is a market for people who like to game on the go and are willing to spend money on a dedicated gaming device.

Even Joystiq's own Chris Grant, who has made himself very clear on many a Joystiq Podcast that he doesn't see much of a future in dedicated handheld gaming devices, spent $250 on a 3DS at a point in time when there weren't many games for it. Furthermore, by making consoles in this age, manufacturers give themselves an opportunity to run their own digital marketplace. They can profit off *every* game sold for their device. This opportunity is not as fruitful for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft on smartphones - and it probably never will be.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 5:45PM (Unverified) said

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Dude, that shirt he's wearing is pretty awesome. Just sayin'.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:22PM CountNoobula said

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i envision a world without smartphones.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 6:45PM Extinction said

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So, the Xperia Play + Playstation Suite

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 7:07PM Luke2011 said

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As a creator of high-priced games for dedicated gaming handhelds (the last portable platforms around featuring high-priced games) let me doubt his opinion is not biased toward them.

He may or may not see it coming, but the truth is digital convergence toward a single device for communications, entertainment and gaming is unstoppable and not to be reversed because the comfort of carrying a single device with such features will always outweigh the advantages of a stand-alone, dedicated handheld.

At present there already are Android palmtops as powerful as a 2001 PC + GeForce 2 GTS GPU (and this actually translates in games visually better than those available back there, take N.O.V.A. 2 HD, it's better than Return to Castle Wolfenstein), and the next year their performances are going to double thanks to quad-core SOCs clocked at 2Ghz with powerful integrated GPUs as the Adreno or PowerVR lines of processors.

That's why I see no future for dedicated gaming handhelds.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 7:30PM xxxsam said

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@Luke2011
From the article above which you probably should have read: 'Keiji Inafune [...has...] only announced games for Smartphones thus far.'

Yes, that doesn't bode particularly well for the point you were trying to make.
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Posted: Sep 17th 2011 7:20PM Mcbonk said

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They Tried this, it was called the N-gage. Thanks Nokia.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 8:28PM tendoboy1984 said

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THANK YOU INAFUNE! That's what I've been saying all along. One device doesn't have to reign supreme over the other, they can coexist. Just like PC gaming and consoles.

End of discussion.

Posted: Sep 17th 2011 11:59PM Yothe said

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I have a smartphone and I never play games on it. I've tried to do my research and all the games just... suck. So yeah, I don't see my DS or PSP going any where until there are actually good games.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 1:17AM mranthony said

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Finally a great conversation describing the difference between mobile and console gaming. Mobile gaming isnt going anywhere but comparing it to console gaming is talking about 2 different categories.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 2:34AM Nobledevil Gaming Optimist said

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Finally, someone who actually makes sense when it comes to the handheld and portable gaming market. I'm so tired of hearing that handheld gaming is dead because the person saying it doesn't enjoy it. It's ironically the same argument that some people make against gaming as a whole, saying it doesn't matter just because they are limited in their knowledge of it.

Posted: Sep 18th 2011 6:35AM TCJJ said

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I really like his analogy. I actually have used that one before too. I'd definitely agree that Infaune is right. But then again, it's no real surprise. I mean, we're talking about Keiji Infaune here.

Posted: Sep 19th 2011 9:58AM Frankenstein Black said

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It is much easier to turn a handheld gaming device into a phone (i.e. add wifi or 3/4G radio) than it is to turn a phone into a truly usable handheld gaming device. Think about it...

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