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Reader Comments (72)

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:08PM SamuraisShadow said

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If the Wii-U isn't a huge success, they are pretty screwed tbh.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:09PM SamuraisShadow said

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@SamuraisShadow I'm saying this because Kinect is appealing to families more than Wii is IMO, meaning that the wii-u needs to be amazing otherwise none of it's target market will buy it.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:19PM Bentzero said

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@SamuraisShadow
Be careful when making disparaging remarks about Nintendo. The NDF will non-plus you. The Wii U will probably be the fork in the road for Nintendo. I plan on buying one just because I have young kids. However, if Kinect is a viable alternative by the Wii U launch I may skip the U altogether.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:35PM DekuTree said

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@Bentzero

Why would it be viable alternative? They're two different things.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:38PM Pure Black World Tendency said

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Blame it on the U's.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:11PM ShingoEX said

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@SamuraisShadow
You mean like the Gamecube and Virtual Boy?

Nintendo is stronger than that.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:09PM ZXREYES said

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i don't get how they could be that much in debt. I mean they they sold of shit load of wiis and dss. what happen to all that money. I not saying they are lying it just seems fishy to me.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:26PM xiLeShadow said

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@ZXREYES

Where does it ever say Nintendo is debt??

They just occurred some loses. Their war chest is still packed with money, loads of it.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:32PM DekuTree said

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@ZXREYES

Where the hell did you get that from? The article says they have a 10$ billion cashpile. That's not debt..
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:33PM ZXREYES said

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@xiLeShadow sorry i meant like how could they be this much in trouble that people are saying this the end of nintendo and they are going to shut down even after millions they made for the wiis and dss. wat happened to it prints money thing. that's what i meant sorry for the confusion.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:33PM The Blank Mage Returns said

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@ZXREYES Well, let's take a look along with the pretentious bastards' best friend, Wikipedia. According to it, each 3DS costs $100 dollars to produce. Nintendo expected sales of 4 million units, giving them a net return of $80,000,000. After the price cut, each system only makes them $69, as opposed to $200. Since they fell short of their estimate by about half a million, this puts their returns at $24,000,000 - a little over a FOURTH of their initial expectations.

It's true that the initial sales of the Wii and the sales of the DS were enough to start the 'It Prints Money' meme, but while the Wii has still outsold the Xbox and PS3, it's sales are now dropping off, and was never substantially backed by third party revenue. Although the first party titles were more or less a hit, the costs of development and production come from Nintendo's own pocket.

Or I could be completely wrong. Feel free to debate, I love a well written argument.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:48PM shouryuuken said

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@ZXREYES well.. the ds isnt selling like crazy anymore, the wii has dipped dramatically in the last year, and they didnt put out much software this year either.

lets not forget, they launched a console worldwide this year as well.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 7:40PM xxxsam said

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@The Blank Mage Returns
The 'cost to produce' figures are for the components and manufacturing only. They don't include packaging, shipping, sales staff etc, or marketing (let alone the already-spent cost of actually designing the thing).

You've also assumed that Nintendo get all the money from sales, whereas in practice they sell through retailers, which will also take a bit off the top.

I admit I'm not an expert but I think it's unlikely they are making any significant amount of money at all from 3DS hardware sales. It's not surprising that they are losing money. The gamble is that this will pay off in software sales and the success of the system later. In Japan that seems to be paying off so far, but I'm not sure about other places.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 8:42PM mahouneko said

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@The Blank Mage Returns
Damn Joystiq comment system ate my post.

Anyway, 100 dollars only covers the cost of materials and doesn't cover the cost of R&D, logistics, and retailer cuts. Nintendo usually earns a profit on each console sold but the price cut has turned that into a loss-leading strategy similar to what MS and Sony does (sell the system at a loss but profit from the games sales).
http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-selling-3ds-at-a-loss-after-price-cut-207335.phtml

Even now, Nintendo is unsure of whether to sell the Wii-U at a loss or not:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/111028qa/index.html

That it is even discussed at the investor Q&A at all is a pretty serious matter.

There are other factors involved such as crappy exchange rates, high price of oil, natural disasters disrupting supplies of components but the exchange rate is possibly one of the biggest factors in Nintendo's losses.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:13PM TwEE said

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With this totally unprecedented battle of the dedicated handheld gaming machine vs handheld convergent device totally destroying Nintendo for real.
Im worried that somebody might make a convergent devious for the home that also plays games, like a computer for personal use that also plays games...
that would also totally be unprecedented and would destroy Nintendo for sure.... AGAIN!

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:16PM Smokemonsta said

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Where can I get a HQ version of that artwork? I need a new wallpaper.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 4:17PM ticklefist said

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@foxhound
Jesus. Thanks. I'm not even that big on Ninty but that's purdy cool.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:21PM greyseal said

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Nintendo does some dumb things, and I'm pretty worried about the Wii U, especially after the 3DS disaster. (Yes, I own a 3DS. And yes, it's a disaster.)

But I'll be damned if the picture headlining this article doesn't make me smile. And that's why Nintendo survives.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 4:41PM A Sandwich said

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@greyseal

You say, "Disaster", I say, "Hyperbole".
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 9:42PM greyseal said

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@A Sandwich

You say "hyperbole," I say "wishful thinking."

It can still pull itself out of the gutter. But It's a 9-month old console that has no games, and has already seen its price slashed by 30%. Apart from literally exploding, it's a disaster. The only thing keeping it afloat is the fact that Nintendo has the money to do so. If this had been released by a company with shallower pockets, the company would have collapsed.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:22PM siteuntitled said

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I'm sure this will be seen as blasphemy, but I would LOVE it if they went the way of Sega and ditched the hardware (except, unlike Sega, they should continue making good games). I would buy the crap out of some mario and zelda for my 360 and/or iOS devices.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:26PM Smokemonsta said

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@siteuntitled This. Sorry I love nintendo as all others do, but IO want an awesome online community, hardware, controller and accessibility. Pokemon MMO on iPhone would be the game of forever.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:31PM foxhound said

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@Smokemonsta
I will bet every damn piece of gaming and computer hardware I own that if a Pokemon MMO was announced, no matter how riddled with PS HOME-style lag & loading*... People would still flock to it like a free t-shirt giveaway.



*... just kidding, I know it's lagged more than usual due to the new stuff on PS Home. ;D
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:32PM xiLeShadow said

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@siteuntitled

No thanks.

Nintendo's great games comes a lot from their dedication to their hardware. They make great games in order to sell great games and sell more hardware.

Remove one and you potential lose the spirit the drives the greatness.


I'll rather have Microsoft ditch the hardware market. They were a very good 3rd party developer before they entered the console business, now they just lost their ways. They killed Rare. I will never forgive.

Sony can stay, but to be honest, I rather let them go then Nintendo.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:32PM Softserve said

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@Smokemonsta I'd like them to go software only too, but I just wonder if they'll ever give up that level of control.

Beyond just losing all of those licensing fees (and suddenly having to pay their own), Nintendo is obsessed with designing hardware that matches their game ideas. It seems doubtful that Move or Kinect would exist currently without the Wii... so what would Nintendo do in those situations? Make addon controllers for Sony and MS consoles?

I just don't know how it'd play out or how open they'd be to it. But I guess if they ever didn't have an option any longer what could they do.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:35PM Softserve said

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@xiLeShadow MS really didn't have any 3rd party games of any sort beyond Flight Simulator and Minesweeper before the Xbox rolled around. I don't know that they were ever a great third party developer in any sort of game sense.

Rare seems perfectly happy to have come up with 360 Avatars and making games on that. They tried with Viva Pinata and Banjo Kazooie and seemingly not enough people cared. I don't think that's strictly MS's fault. Rare has been killing themselves for a while.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:40PM TwEE said

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@siteuntitled

I kind of wish Nintendo's competitors (both hardware and software) would just drop out of business and give nintendo thier money so Nintendo could focus and really making great games with all that extra money.

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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:41PM Splarge1 said

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@Softserve I don't think you know what "third party" means.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:54PM siteuntitled said

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@xiLeShadow

I don't think they would have any problems making great games on hardware they didn't design. The things I love about Mario and Zelda don't come from waggle either - quite the opposite actually, I wish the motion control would have been left completely out of both.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:55PM shouryuuken said

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@siteuntitled sega still makes good games, the problem is that they hardly make games anymore... since going third party, theyve truly become a publisher and rely on too many other developers... which is why i dont want nintendo going that route either.

if you think about it, valkyria chronicles, virtua fighter, yakuza, and (recently) sonic have been good games. besides those, most of sega's games have been tie-ins and random games by terrible developers. the only good move theyve made as a publisher was partnering with platinum games.

my main point here though is that going third party means you dont have to come up with a portfolio of exclusive games to lure consumers to your camp. when you can make a mediocre game and release it across 7 platforms, you dont have to try nearly as hard... and thats the problem with the current sega.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:01PM Colin said

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@Softserve

Uh, what? How about Age of Empires, or Crimson Skies, or Mechwarrior, or Dungeon Siege, or even Freelancer? I can't be the only one who remembers Midtown Madness.

Microsoft Game Studios existed long before the Xbox ever did.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:42PM picxel said

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@xiLeShadow
I'd rather have Sony stay in that little situation. I love my Nintendo titles but the big N hasn't been the most reliable when it comes with actual up to date hardware. The WiiU already appears to be lacking in the hardware department. This assumption coming from the tech demos though so I'll have to hold my tongue a bit until E3 2012. Still, I trust Sony more to deliver cutting edge tech when it comes to my console.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 4:24PM Calatia said

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@siteuntitled I completely agree, it's become ABUNDANTLY that they don't know what the fudge they're doing as far as online capabilities are concerned. I'm not just talking with regards to the Virtual Console or eShop, but lack of online multiplayer and patches. Super Smash Bros. Brawl is so broken and unbalanced, so desperately in need of a patch that the homebrew community had to fix it.

I'd love in Nintendo and Microsoft partnered up. Imagine all of the Nintendo classics on the XBLA. :D
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:27PM CoconutSkittle said

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I think we all know Nintendo has already made many mistakes with the 3DS, but realistically I don't think it's anything they can't get out of. If they continue down this road and the Wii U fails to deliver (which unfortunately I think it will), however, they will be in real trouble.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:34PM Splarge1 said

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@CoconutSkittle The DS's launch was extremely similar to the 3DS's launch. But no one seems to remember that in the "3DS total failure, lagging behinds DS" articles
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Posted: Nov 5th 2011 3:15AM CaramelZappa said

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@Splarge1
The difference between the 3DS launch and the DS launch is mobile gaming.

The DS had a soft launch, but the only real competitor was the PSP and it had less intriguing games and cost more.

The 3DS had a soft launch, but it's real competitor is the free and cheap smartphone that most people already feel that they "need"

The casual market that made the DS a huge success is not going to do the same for the 3DS. I see kids with iphone's all the time now, playing little timewaster games. I can't remember the last time I saw a DS in the wild.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:31PM Splarge1 said

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A weak yen, massive R&D costs, and a lack of games sold...

I know! It's cell phone games!!

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:32PM Splarge1 said

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@Splarge1 This article is pushing this Joystiq agenda that Nintendo (and Nintendo alone) is some victim to cell phone games. It's awful. The Japanese economy alone would explain their first-time drop in profits. Looking at the landscape of Japanese Businesses, one would see Nintendo is hardly alone, and that this is both an across the board issue, and something mostly out of Nintendo's control.

But all this article wants to say is "Nintendo is stupid!" and "Cell phone games!!"
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:33PM Softserve said

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@Splarge1 Most of that stuff is mentioned, though.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:36PM Splarge1 said

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@Softserve Mentioned and then ignored. This article brings on experts who regurgitate what people have said about Nintendo for almost a whole decade. Is it really being an expert to say "Nintendo should go third party"? It's all you ever see in a comment thread about Nintendo.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:33PM Dick Socrates said

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Zelda SW will fix this. Never underestimate the power of Zelda especially. A proper Zelda title can change the fortunes of any console. People who didn't buy a Wii at all are still Nintendo fans at heart and will buy one just for Zelda. I'd even consider it myself. Zelda got 10/10 in Edge. Which is very rare, but could just be Edge being their usual contrary selves, always trying to wrong foot people with their crazy 'mature' views.

Mario, on the other hand, has lost his power to do magic. The two Galaxy games didn't do *that* well considering and I doubt it made that many non Wii owners pick one up. I did consider it and then didn't bother. Just didn't seem that exciting or interesting.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:37PM Splarge1 said

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@Dick Socrates The two Galaxy games paled in comparison to the sales of... what game's that? New Super Mario Bros? Oh yeah, that non-Mario game.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:39PM Splarge1 said

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@Dick Socrates Just to help go with this, from Wikipedia:

"New Super Mario Bros. Wii has sold over 4,000,000 units in the US.,[60] and this has taken worldwide sales to over the 10,000,000 mark, making it the fastest selling single-system game in history"

Mario is so over.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:44PM DekuTree said

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@Splarge1

"As of April 2011, the game has sold 21.94 million copies and is the fifth best-selling (non-bundled) Wii game as well as the second best-selling Mario game on the Wii console (behind Mario Kart Wii)."
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:45PM Splarge1 said

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@DekuTree Clearly Mario is underpeforming if he is being beaten by one of those new-fangled Mario games.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:37PM StrangeDNA said

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@Softserve I miss the old Rare from the N64 days, but more importantly, I really miss the Perfect Dark property. I'd really like to see Microsoft hand that to a strong FPS-focused team to make a new one. I really liked the futuristic setting and the aliens tie-in.

Plus it's Joanna Dark!
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 2:39PM DekuTree said

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I think people are taking this way too seriously. Nintendo are still swimming in cash. They made some mistakes with the 3ds, and simply haven't supported the Wii well enough in a long time, but to think this is the end of Nintendo is ridiculous.

It all depends on the future economic climate, and how well the Wii U does, which remains to be seen.

Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:44PM StrangeDNA said

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@DekuTree This. It's not just Nintendo suffering this year. Numerous Japanese companies have felt the bite of a perfect storm of bad events. For example HKS USA, which sold aftermarket automotive parts, shuttered because the same events: earthquake, economic hardship, and a non-advantageous currency exchange.

Nintendo has contributed to its own failure this year so far, but really, this is a strong company and any doomsaying at this point is overreaction. Nintendo isn't perfect but they will figure out how to be profitable again sooner rather than later. After all, this is the company that can beat larger corporations with underwhelming hardware on a consistent basis.
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Posted: Nov 4th 2011 3:02PM McDude said

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Maybe if the Wii U tanks next year, it'll be enough to shake the crust off the old fogies' asses who keep telling us we don't need things that are standard everywhere else (HD, Matchmaking, Hard-Drives, DLC, 3rd-Party Games).

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