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Reader Comments (211)

Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:31PM edofyingfilms said

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So when can we expect the first Service Pack that needs to be patched five times within three weeks of release?

Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:14PM ShingoEX said

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@edofyingfilms I like how you think a console that's Windows-powered needs that. How many service packs and patches did the Windows-powered Dreamcast need?

Yeah...I didn't think so. Try harder next time.

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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:18PM edofyingfilms said

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@ShingoEX If it's made by Microsoft, yes.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:22PM theSkillfull1 said

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@edofyingfilms
NO.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:23PM edofyingfilms said

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@theSkillfull1 Oh yeah?! Well... YES.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:24PM Drakkenfyre said

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@ShingoEX

The Dreamcast didn't run on Windows. It ran on it's own OS called SegaOS. It was compatible with WindowsCE, and any game than ran on it had a copy of the OS on the actual disc, that loaded when the game loaded.

They changed the "Designed for WindowsCE" on the front of the Dreamcast to "Compatible with WindowsCE" for the American release.

Games that ran on WindowsCE also usually ran slower.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:32PM Fearmonkey said

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@edofyingfilms - The original Xbox was made off the NT kernel, it wasnt patched either.

Also, isn't anyone else alarmed at the words ARM processor when we are talking about a next generation console? I had heard previously that AMD was again awarded the GPU contract for the next xbox, and that even the PS4 would have a AMD processor instead of an Nvidia one, and that IBM would once again make the processor.
ARM processors aren't known for their power outside of the mobile industry, this concerns me. By having seperate processors for different functions, aren't they making development harder ala PS3/PS2/Saturn?
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:37PM edofyingfilms said

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@edofyingfilms You know guys, I was knocking the absurd number of updates that come out for Windows on PC, not consoles that used any derivations of it.

Way to be hypersensitive, bros.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:44PM tendoboy1984 said

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@Drakkenfyre

Why would they need a copy of the OS on the game disc? The OS was built into the console, right?
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:49PM Oddgirl said

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@tendoboy1984 No, it wasn't.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:56PM sparkster said

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@edofyingfilms
He has a point there. That system would have to get alot of patches. A console that is as online focused as the Xbox has no business running Windows. Millions of identically configured boxes all running Windows are the wet dream of any malware programmer.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:57PM Oddgirl said

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This is the dumbest thread ever. You're overlooking a reasonable fact, and instead championing BS (Dreamcast didn't run Windows, as Drakkenfyre pointed out).

Consoles get service packs all the time! Xbox 360, PS3, and even Wii have had more major updates in the past five or six years than both the computer I'm typing this on and the computer I order said computer on combined.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 2:41PM Drakkenfyre said

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@tendoboy1984

That's the way it worked. The system didn't have the OS in a ROM. The OS was on the disc. Each game that used WindowsCE had to load it up before it played. That's why the initial loading time for each of those games were longer.

They also ran slower.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 3:29PM Ordeith said

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@Fearmonkey

Maybe there are two.. a 2012-13 console and a later Handheld (ARM / Windows 9)?
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 5:04PM DreadArrow said

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@Drakkenfyre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcast

"The operating system used by some Dreamcast titles was developed by Microsoft after two years of work with Sega. It was an optimized version of Windows CE supporting DirectX."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SegaOS

"This page has been deleted"

"concern was: SegaOS does not exist, there is no such thing that goes by this name. The Dreamcast did not run an OS, only libraries along with the official SDK "Katana" and "WinCE""
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 5:09PM Dehnus said

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@sparkster Shows how little you know, it is actually better as the old Xbox also ran a modified version of Windows 2000. And Windows 2000 was alot less safe then the newer incarnations. The one they used for the Xbox was a version that was stripped down to the bare minimum. If they do the same again with the next one, it doesn't have to be a bad choice at all.

Infact making an entire OS from scratch will usually mean more errors rather then less.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 5:37PM sparkster said

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@Dehnus
Except that the original Xbox's online features were very bare bones compared to what is possible today. With file sharing and all one manipulated Halo video/game mode or whatever might turn out as a problem for alot of players at once. While that can happen with any OS, Windows still carries decades old remnants around that are vulnerable. Plus people already make malware for that OS already. Imagine what would happen if the new Xbox featured a browser (most likely the IE then).
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 7:37PM John Huxley said

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Reminds me of Windows CE running on dreamcast.... and all the games that utilized it were hindered by it. Only the games that bypassed CE could tap into the real power of the dreamcast. Oh well. I'm sure they know what they are doing...sortof...not really.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 9:53PM jackal said

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@Fearmonkey

'ARM processors aren't known for their power outside of the mobile industry, this concerns me"

They aren't even known for their power in the mobile industry, they're known for being functional while consuming stupendously small amounts of power. ARM''s CPUs won't start rivalling Xenon or CELL in single threaded performance until around 2015; while this sounds impressive, one must consider that both console CPUs have inferior IPC and single threaded performance relative to an Intel Atom (they only make up for such performance deficits with multi-core parallelism and high clockspeeds).

Going with ARM, from a performance perspective, would be a regression from the current generation. It might just be a rumor, but it's a really scary rumor.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 10:32PM Drakkenfyre said

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@DreadArrow

Wikipedia, man. That article is wrong. Sega itself described the system when it came out. WindowsCE is NOT in the system. It's on each disc for the game that uses it. When the game boots, it loads WindowsCE. This adds an additional initial load, and the games usually run slower because of the extra overhead. You seemed to have missed the "some games" part. The system itself did not use the OS. It was not on the system itself.

SegaOS is what Sega referred to the UI as. You can look directly on any US Dreamcast, "Compatible with WindowsCE", it does not say it runs on it, it does not say it uses it. The Japanese version originally said "Designed for WindowsCE", then it was changed.

Sega described how the system worked, I would say that article is wrong.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 10:33PM houser said

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@edofyingfilms So in an article about a console, you bring up PC's. When presented with counterarguments regarding the one point that might make that comparison relevant...you then revert to I was just kidding guys lighten up...

Not exactly the most convincing set of arguments but let's see where that goes.
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Posted: Nov 10th 2011 11:51PM Polymorphic Ninja said

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@ShingoEX
From my understanding, Windows CE wasn't embedded on the Dreamcast, and really wasn't an operating system on the device. It was more akin to a VM/framework packaged on the disk with the game utilizing it as a host (like Silverlight). The goal was to make it easier to port applications between windows and Dreamcast.

This means the "OS" basically shipped with every game (which to be fair, still makes your statement about no patches and service packs correct).

But your comparison is an apples to oranges situation regarding the "new" X-box/X-BoxTV thing described in this article. That will have the OS embedded on the device and be subject to patches and updates.

To be honest, I see more patches and updates come down on my PS3 and Wii than my 360. Not sure why the dude who you responded to implied that upgradable firmware was such a bad thing.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:32PM xHotPotatox said

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2012 is too early for a console launch, I doubt Microsoft is scared of the Wii U. Chances are we'll see it at E3 next year but it won't come out till holiday 2013

Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:34PM (Unverified) said

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@xHotPotatox sony forced them to release 1 year early, nintendo will too.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:40PM Snowblind said

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They were desperate to be the first to market with the 360 though. MS are in a much more comfortable posistion this time, and the Wii U sounds like it'll be under-powered when it's released, let alone compared to Sony and MS's new systems.

They have no reason to rush their console out this time.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:46PM Co said

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@xHotPotatox

"2012 is too early for a console launch"

How so? Why?
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:48PM Co said

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@Snowblind

"and the Wii U sounds like it'll be under-powered when it's released"


http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=165810
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:49PM xHotPotatox said

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Two completely different markets. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Xbox tries to make a bigger push with the kinect or whatever the next version is called but majority of the 30 million live users aren't casual gamers. Microsoft will try and get the next Xbox out before the PS4, but I still doubt they are scared of the WiiU
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:09PM R Planteer said

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@xHotPotatox

2012 would place it's release 7 years after the 360 launch, which is 3 years longer than the orginial xbox lasted.

It's not at all too early and as I've said before, I believe it to be the most likely outcome.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:13PM Space Cobra said

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@Snowblind

I dunno. I can see them being comfortable, but their modus operandi seems to be to release early and beat the other companies "to the punch" for gamer's dollars (and loyalty), even if it means skrimping on materials. I am actually seeing some of that same sort of philosophy by hearing more about Microsoft's new release and their strategy (along with Starlight integration) than about the others, but maybe it's just a hunch on my part.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:20PM SuperAnthony64 said

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@Snowblind MS is comfortable? They have been out sold by Nintendo and Sony every year since PS3 and Wii launched. They are about to lose the second place to Sony in about a year.

Has the Xbox brand gotten out of the red yet since the OXbox days?
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:27PM freaparn said

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@SuperAnthony64

So 360 has been outsold by PS3 every year... and Sony is about to usurp the 2nd place position MS holds. Your maths, they are broken.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:28PM ECUPirates said

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@SuperAnthony64 32,517,856 Xbox 360s vs 25,099,211 PS3s


Try again troll.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:32PM fohf said

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@xHotPotatox
2012 is not too early for a new console, but it might be too early if said console doesn't have any good games to play on it (See 3DS).
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:52PM Mcmax3000 said

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@R Planteer - I don't believe it to be the most likely outcome for on big reason...

Halo 4.

I guess it's possible that they could choose to move it to the new console instead but there's no way in hell they'll release Halo 4 on the 360 & launch a new console in the same holiday season.

I really, honestly believe it will be 2013.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:57PM (Unverified) said

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@ECUPirates HAHA check your stats your way off buddy
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 2:52PM guttertalk said

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@freaparn @ecupirates

His writing is broken, but his math is fairly accurate.

The PS3 is outselling the 360 on a monthly basis and is close to overtaking the 360's total sales.

The point, though, is that Microsoft has no reason to feel comfortable. Even pushing aside the current numbers, the fact is that past performance guarantees the future.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 3:00PM ytilanigiroon said

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So far the PS3 is being bought more than the 360 this year, and last year as well.

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly.php?reg=World&console=&date=2011&maker=

Look at the total units sold. The 360 is currently ahead of the PS3, though, the trending data looks like the PS3 should overtake the 360 some time between now and the next gen.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 3:07PM Kevadu said

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@freaparn

Fanboyism aside, there's nothing wrong with his math. At this point the 360 is ahead only because it had a year head start.

And ECUPirates, I think you're only looking at US numbers (the only region where the 360 has a lead). The PS3 obviously dominates in Japan, but it has also sold more in Europe.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 5:07PM This Little Man Says His Name Is said

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@ytilanigiroon

VGchartz...
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 6:46PM freaparn said

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@guttertalk

Ah, dang it. You're right, I didn't think of the launch dates. I guess his math is reasonably close to reality then... this time.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:32PM StormChaser91 said

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No matter what the release date is i am still waiting at least a couple of months or so to see if it has any hardware failures from people who will buy it at launch because i'm on my 5th xbox360 right now but still at least can't wait to see what it looks like when its finished.

Posted: Nov 9th 2011 12:51PM skullivan said

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@StormChaser91 I really doubt that'll be an issue. Ironically, a big part of the reason the PS3 got off to a slow start was because the PS2 had just as many hardware problems as the 360. Turned out PS3 was much better built.

The 360's problems came from MS designing the architecture themselves instead of getting a team that knew what they were doing. They fixed that with the 360S.

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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:19PM Cranky Penguin said

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@skullivan I have to disagree, my 10 year old fat PS2 has never given me any problems but I have been through a PS3 blu ray drive already and 3 other people I know with PS3s have all had them die within 2 years. I think the launch PS3s were built very poorly, but then so were the launch X360s. I'm going to wait for the first hardware redesign before buying a next gen console.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:19PM Space Cobra said

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@skullivan

While I heard about PS2's problems, I can say that during all my years of video console collecting, the XBox360 was the ONLY system that broke down on me after a short period of time. My PS2 is still active and I played lots on it (but I know about the DVD drives/armatures).

And not just one, but TWO 360's died on me. Pretty unprecedented IMO. I didn't care about the MS refund and didn't take advantage of it for a few reasons. (Although the new 360 systems work well enough now with their new parts, but how long did that take for MS to produce/sell there? At least 3 years.)
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:21PM freaparn said

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@StormChaser91

That you're still a 360 owner after being on your 5th box seems to say that they're doing a lot of things right, even if the hardware had issues.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 1:45PM Odog4ever said

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@StormChaser91

Well I'll be telling you how my launch box is holding up then.

I have a feeling that the new Xbox will be built like a tank.What kind of bizarro world would we have to live in for MS to get the hardware wrong twice in a row? After they had to take a 1 billion dollar hit on the warranties too?

Wouldn't be surprise if it still booted after being submerged in a foot of water...
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 2:52PM FakeJamaican said

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@Odog4ever

3 times in a row. The original Xbox was shite.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 3:00PM latin trident said

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@StormChaser91

I'll be the first to admit that i'll pre-order the new console only if it meets the following conditions:

1) has a 3 year warranty like the xbox 360
2) uses the same controllers as the xbox 360 [BEST CONTROLLERS EVARR!]
3) BACKWARDS compatible with the original xbox and xbox 360.

I know i'm hoping for a lot... so much so that there is a bigger chance i win the lottery or there be a WW3 than my conditions being met.

P.S. I honestly would like a blu-ray player in it so i don't have to get a PS3 please.
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Posted: Nov 9th 2011 5:17PM DreadArrow said

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@FakeJamaican
It might have been shite, but at least it was a reliable shite.
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