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Reader Comments (28)

Posted: Nov 29th 2011 11:23PM liquidsoap89 said

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I don't know why... But watching this video made me wonder what 3D levels have been made since the last time I played LBP2...

And WOW I still can't believe the FPS that Starfox gets! it's so weird to see it 20 years later.

Posted: Nov 29th 2011 11:31PM Shadow Hog said

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I like how they use a source port to represent Doom (the fact they're looking up and down gives it away - Doom can't do that).

Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:16AM GreenElf said

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@Shadow Hog

Wasn't there an upgraded engine that you could look up and down in? I think I remember running Doom and Doom 2 WADS using the engine that Dark Forces ran.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:43AM Shadow Hog said

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@GreenElf
Well, technically Hexen used the Doom engine, and it added the ability to pan the screen up and down to simulate looking up and down. A lot of first-person shooters of the era did this: Rise of the Triad, Duke Nukem 3D, Blood (any Build engine game, really), Hexen, Dark Forces, etc. However, it doesn't do any perspective correction due to how the engine is designed, so the further you look away from straight forward, the more distorted the picture becomes.

Regardless, this feature was never added to Doom itself, until source-ports were being created somewhere near the turn of the century. Even then, the footage from the video shows perspective correction, so they're running it in an OpenGL/Direct3D version, and not the actual Doom rendering engine. That's actually my preferred way to play - I know the ability to look up and down properly isn't strictly the "correct" way to play Doom, but I'll be damned if I don't find it the most fun way.

And Dark Forces does not run Doom natively, as far as I know. You were probably playing a mod of some sort.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:05PM Melf said

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@Shadow Hog How about the filtered textures in the video ;) ?
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:48PM TheMADECurator said

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@Shadow Hog The video was put together in a hurry. A untouched version of Doom 2 will be playable at the museum.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 5:24PM Shadow Hog said

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@TheMADECurator
Fine by me, either way. I'll argue the original version is probably the more important to preserve, but as I said, source ports are definitely the more fun way to play it.

Also rather impressed you remembered Alpha Waves. I hadn't even remembered that one, albeit I'd seen videos of it prior.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 9:41PM TheMADECurator said

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@Shadow Hog I fought tooth and nail to get Alpha Waves in. I cant wait to see people enjoy this very early attempt at platforming with three dimensions. I even gave up the machine we catalog on so we could show it.

I personally love ports, mods, and TC's. I cant wait to explore the large world of user created content. Providing context to those who may have never know otherwise is what we hope to achieve with the MADE.

Well.. one of the many things in the educational realm we hope to achieve. Our other primary goal is to create the best video game museum on the planet. Then expand into the space museum market.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2011 11:42PM Faceless Troll said

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It makes me sad that Doom gets more cred than Wolfenstein 3d.

Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:53AM Shadow Hog said

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@Faceless Troll
Makes me sad Wolfenstein 3D gets more cred than Catacomb 3D before it, or Hovertank 3D before THAT...

Catacombs 3D is actually pretty damn fun. Doesn't get a whole lot of love, despite being developed by id and being the direct predecessor to Wolfenstein 3D... Admittedly I'm basing this mostly on the Softdisk-made sequels, the Catacombs Trilogy, but hell, they're good too.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 7:59AM SomethingElse said

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@Faceless Troll
Wolfenstein was a good game but Doom was the game that spawned the FPS genre. It was the commercial success of that game that other developers really tried to cash in on.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:51PM TheMADECurator said

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@Shadow Hog I enjoy Catacomb 3D too. Its a really dynamic game that drives you to explore.
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:58PM TheMADECurator said

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@dsp4 Elite will be on display.
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Posted: Nov 29th 2011 11:47PM Acosta02 said

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On the topic of early 3D, I can't wait for N64 graphics to become retro-popular like pixels are now.

Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:38AM Kamalot said

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@Acosta02

Didn't you play 3D games on the original DS? ;-)

Kidding aside, early 3D lacks the charm of pixels. Old games with hand-drawn pixels look like art. Early 3D games look primitive. 3D does not age well at all. Take a look back at last generation's graphic powerhouses and they simply look junky.

Only when people take style into account over realism does 3D have any real longevity. Wind Waker will still look amazing 30 years from now, cause it didn't use 3D to try and create realism. 30 years in the future, Wind Waker will still look like an awesome cartoon, not a poor representation of reality.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:45AM Kamalot said

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@Acosta02

Ooops!

What about Minecraft!?
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 7:56PM xxxsam said

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@dsp4
You're right, but relatively few 2D games used graphics from photos. Most of it was hand-drawn. Nearly all of the (relatively) early 3D games are trying either for realism, or at least for more than they can achieve, which is why nearly all of them look terrible today.

Wind Waker hardly counts as an early 3d game, since it's on second generation 3d console hardware. I agree it looks great, but they had a bit of leeway back then. In the earlier systems, everything was suspiciously foggy for no reason. :)

When I think of early 3d games, it's definitely not about consoles nor actually any of the ones shown in their video (although yes, I did play Doom).

Along with Elite that somebody else mentioned (originally for BBC Micro in 1984; video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0czVxiEqNM), Driller / Total Eclipse / Castle Master series is the one that comes to mind. Here's a video from Castle Master (which was released in 1990 before the SNES and three years before Star Fox); it was a multi-platform game but the Amiga version was one of the best looking (also nice music). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=na2O4Ztx7lk

That's 'real' polygon 3d; for 'fake 3d', Dungeon Master (1987) on Atari ST and Amiga was a classic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3UdUWU4j1Y) - that's actually a game that might still be playable today (...and there are games using similar systems still made very recently on DS, too).
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Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:53PM TheMADECurator said

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@dsp4 There is no doubt that 2D sprites hold up better then early 3D. Look at Heart of Darkness for the PS1. It holds up much better then a Bubsy 3D or Jumping Flash.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 12:36AM maxwell97 said

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Odd they don't go back a little further. There are some OLD flight sims that would be good to see - and, of course, 4D Boxing. :)

Posted: Dec 1st 2011 1:01PM TheMADECurator said

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@maxwell97 We are trying to get MS flight sim 1.0 working on a 286, and Elite will also be on display.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 3:15AM Space Cobra said

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Yeah, like many, I am sorta bummed out they didn't show off other games, but this is just a 2:05 reel. They are probably more in the exhibit, although looking at the last real shot, the Museum seems rather simple: I just attended an arcade convention with collectors setting up a similar set-up, but in a convention room (TVs and old systems) along with some of their arcade cabinets and pinball machines. It just seems so "home-grown" rather than what I think of as "sterile museum", ya know?

In any event, I hope to see more Vector 3-D games in there (Battlezone) that are pure wire-framed with little to no color.

Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:55PM TheMADECurator said

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@Space Cobra Yes the video needs some work. It does not show our awesome classroom or our collection.

For your vector enjoyment we have a playable Vectrex, and Spector VR for the Mac.
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 8:02AM SomethingElse said

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Needs more Mercenary

Posted: Nov 30th 2011 9:39AM Gooblechev said

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Original Star Fox for the win.

Posted: Nov 30th 2011 2:46PM 343 Guilty Fart said

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I might just go to this.

Posted: Dec 1st 2011 1:02PM TheMADECurator said

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@343 Guilty Fart Yes please do :)

We will be taking donations at the door, but its free for everybody!
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Posted: Nov 30th 2011 7:32PM (Unverified) said

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Museum rep here.

To answer a few questions:
Yes, there's more games than shown in the video, probably 25-30. Your favorite may not be there, and we lack the exotic hardware for some of the early mainframe games, but I feel we have an adequate selection that represents the variety of 3d games found between 1980 and 1996, as well as videos for some titles we are unable to exhibit.

We are rather grassroots at the moment, but hey, our doors have barely been open several weeks. We already have developed relationships in the industry and our founder has been in the biz for years and knows many amazing people. We have some big plans for next year, so come out to support us and watch us grow.

Posted: Dec 1st 2011 12:49PM TheMADECurator said

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@Bielzer This video has only 4 of the 15-20 games that will be on display. I hope to see you some day at one of our traveling exhibits :)

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