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Reader Comments (60)

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:31PM TheUser said

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This seems to apply to all games, not just JRPGs!

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 3:34AM BLunted said

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@TheUser

JRPG's have become a niche market for weeaboos
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:32PM Marshillboy said

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Maybe I'd be playing more modern JRPGs if they weren't homogenously comprised of uninspired, androgynous emo characters.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:35PM MusiM said

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@Marshillboy I know if only they were giant penis space marines. Or angry women who bunch balls for a living. ;D
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:36PM MontEdZuma said

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@MusiM I didn't see him say they had to be MANLY. I see him saying they are making males so feminine, they are almost female. I was confused as hell when I played Magna Carta. I SWORE that was a girl on the cover. Not all games do that though. Either way, too many do.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:48PM (Unverified) said

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@Marshillboy To be fair, I would totally be accepting of emo, androgynous characters if they were inspired and nuanced.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:57PM Foetoid said

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@Marshillboy

Xenoblade has been repeatedly touted as the best JRPG of the last 5 years or more, and the characters there aren't overly feminine. Give it a go its one of the best games this generation.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 8:02PM DasMadHatter said

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@(Unverified)

Implying androgyny could ever be nuanced. I guess you've never watched Will and Grace, Modern Family, or gone for a stroll through Downtown San-Francisco.
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 1:00AM Kougeru said

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@Marshillboy Honestly Star Ocean 4 didn't really have that problem...for one example. Yes the main character had longer hair...but guess what? That's a style that's rather common now days...or rather for the last nearly decade.
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 1:29AM freaparn said

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@Marshillboy

I could never figure out what the hell was the main protagonist from Tales of Vesperia was supposed to be. I mean it *looks* like a typical JRPG effeminate male lead, but most of the time it acted like a mannish woman. It is great mystery.
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 11:54AM Crucial Kenny said

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@Marshillboy

I also get tired of the youngsters in these games. The last two JRPGs I tried to play were Tales of Vesperia and Eternal Sonata. I just can't figure out why they stick annoying 9 year olds with high pitched voices in there. Kills the story for me.
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 6:25PM Vuvuzelas said

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@freaparn they literally make fun of the fact that Yuri looks like a chick though
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 9:50PM Milak said

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@(Unverified)

Might I recommend the Shin Megami Tensei: Persona series? Characters are angsty, but not too emo, and their issues make sense, and everyone is well characterized.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:33PM MusiM said

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I've been trying to think on how to compliment this article without coming off like a spam bot. Screw it. I really enjoyed this article. It was insightful and informative and I look forward to reading future iterations.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 8:09AM gutien said

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@MusiM Now you just be trollin'
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:34PM xiLeShadow said

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Because they are fun.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 10:35PM ShadowXIII said

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@xiLeShadow

Such a compelling sentiment!
I wonder why this hasn't been thought of yet?
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:35PM Motoko21 said

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You have a great point

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:35PM Gombard said

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What makes JRPGs worth playing? NOTHING.

Cheque please! (journalistic arm folding)

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:36PM Truant said

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Picture reminded me that I need to...
1. feel bad about myself because
2. I need to dig out Lost Odyssey and finish it.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 6:38PM Cletus VanDamme said

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@Truant

you and me both....for some weird reason I stopped somewhere in the middle of disc 4.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:39PM DasMadHatter said

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What makes JRPG's worth playing:

The story? Yeah, totally, sometimes.
The well rounded, non-cliched characters? HAHAHA
The well written dialogue? HAHAHAHAHA

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:47PM Space Cobra said

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I believe those bad reviews (from GameFAQs AND other sites) are done by a new generation of players that are used to not only better graphics, but fast-paced action (think most modern action movies).

It is similar to how people who grew up with on Television may've looked down on Radio, etc., etc. Sometimes, you just got to put yourself in the proper frame of mind and many of these folks that post, do not. They simply relate it to their own experiences of today and not what it meant at the time.

Really, I've seen some very bad reviews of, "Seven Samurai", a classic, by posters who can't appreciate it and only relate it to the last GI Joe movie. The same applies here.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:48PM FinalFantasyXIIIsucks said

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I enjoy JRPGs mostly because of their stories, regardless of how cliched they may be. I also like them because of the music, character development, stat progression, and so on. Finally, I think nostalgia plays a large part in why I continue to play them.

Ever since Final Fantasy II (IV as it's now referred to) came out on the Super Nintendo, I've been hooked. Never once from the release of that game to this very moment have I ever thought that they were pointless and no longer worth my time. Every time a new JRPG is announced for the west, I get excited (Xenoblade and Tales of Graces F ftw).

There have been a few JRPGs here and there that I thought were really, really awful (I'm pretty sure you can guess at least one of them that I didn't like), but I've pretty much enjoyed most that have come out over here.

In the end, I guess it really boils down to both your person preferences and the amount of free time that you have. If you never liked JRPGs to begin with or have the time to play through a 30-40 hour, story driven campaign, then I don't think that there will ever be something to come along to change your mind.

Oh yeah, btw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_dP0XsM23j0

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:50PM eilegz said

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History, Good art, graphics and design....

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:59PM SmilinGoat said

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now days? not a whole lot.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 6:59PM (Unverified) said

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Well, Phantasy Star IV is my favorite game ever made, so I may be more than a little biased in saying "Great article!".

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:08PM smashingmiso said

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JRPGs in my mind live and die by it's arrangement and concise presentation of its elements more so than any other genre. Because of this, this makes the written adventure much more exciting then it really could be. As a comparison, if I were to write a potentially award-winning novel but fail to arrange/revise them in a way that makes them appealling/engaging, then we've got a problem. See what I did there?

In JRPGS if it fails to engage by the first couple encounters ...I'd even go as far as say even its first text box, then we've got a problem. Why DID FF7 engage so many players? It had a spine-chilling intro FMV that singlehandely set up the game world in a minute or so. It didn't even have to resort to over-the-top action that square seems to be fond of these days...

Thing is, nostalgia does play a factor about JRPGS in its heyday, but the fact is, a lot of 'streamlining' WRPG does nowadays has similar parallels with what JRPGs has done with early WRPG/pen and paper influences.

They streamlined them ever since Dragon Quest. They made it immediately engaging with a constant rapid-fire flow of information for its time and especially battles with numbers scrolling and screens shaking from damage.

I believe this is why Dark Souls is so popular because it similarly takes WRPG concepts and does it with very tight design, unforgiving, but its very well designed and fair unforgiving for the most part.

Hopefully my cruddy unorganized writing brings across some of my points

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:10PM smashingmiso said

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@smashingmiso
Ah man, I wish I could revise this comment...
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:11PM Helghast102 said

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The consistently fresh combat, nothing competes with JRPGs over this.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 11:33PM (Unverified) said

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@Helghast102

Maybe the Witcher 2's refreshing combat?
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:15PM Sarcosis said

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I loved JRPG's in it's prime about 15 years ago and wish it would come back. For me, I would believe that the sum of it's parts needs to be greater than it's individual purposes.

I look for a great story, serviceable graphics, great music and a decent combat system. In the story, I don't want it to be over the top, just great. If I want to play a Jerry bruckheimer movie in a game, I'll go play MW3. The game-play needs to be decent too.

I think in the past 5 Years, there hasn't been a great JRPG that's caught my eye since there's nothing bringing me back to what JRPG's were like. It's now a grind fest with flashy visuals which does nothing for me.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:16PM helava said

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I'm not really sure I understand the existence of this article. Basically, the TL;DR version is:

"I like JRPGs therefore they're worth playing."

The thing is, there is a lot of discussion to be had about the individual components and *why* they matter. There's also a lot of discussion to be had about what makes the overall experience *different* than a book, or a good movie.

For instance, one of the biggest differences between a JRPG like Lost Odyssey and any movie is *time*. While in an episodic TV series, you'll spend more time with the characters, they're specifically written so that in most of them, order doesn't matter, and therefore, *time* doesn't matter. With most movies, you're only with the characters for 2 hours. You can care about them essentially only in the context of a very, very specific event.

With a JRPG, you may have the same characters for 120 hours. Three full working weeks. That's a LOT more time to get to know a couple characters, and you'll be doing so in the context of a progressive story arc. So even if you're doing mundane things, and the mechanics suck, you'll be spending a lot of *time* with those characters, watching them evolve and unfold, and finding out more of the subtleties about them - stuff you wouldn't be able to find in most movies, with visuals that are more visceral and immediate than most books.

There's also a sense of progression of the narrative, the progression of the character's power, how those two interplay - usually going from amnesiac teen angsty nonsense to world-saving planet-smashing explodination. There's a power fantasy that fulfills, and it makes the mundane (your character at the start) into something genuinely important by the end.

I mean, there are dozens of things to dive into, and honestly, I *hate* most JRPGs because the mechanics *are* garbage, and the stories are *terrible*. But there are a lot of reasons they should be better than they are, and in the hands of someone who's not tied to the nonsensical Japanese conventions, a linear "RPG" could still be a really powerful experience.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:51PM (Unverified) said

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JRPG's, Western RPG's, who cares? Just give me modern good RPG's and I am a happy camper

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:54PM RickGhastly said

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To me, what I've always found engaging about JRPGs is a feeling of "possibility", wrapped up in a decent narrative (a game doesn't necessarily have to be like Skyrim to feel like there's always something interesting around the next corner). Games like Final Fantasy VI or Dragon Quest VIII weren't great because they gave the illusion of freedom, but because they always had something there for adventurers. "Pointless" additions like the Morrie's Monstrous Pit or Duncan's house fleshed out the world and made it feel like it was inhabitable.

In older JRPGs, the progress was always finely tuned so that when you finally received a boat and/or airship, it was this infinitely satisfying moment where you could go out and explore the world (within the context of the story). It was adventure time. Most modern JRPGs are far too myopic. They assume if you tack a unique battle system on top of an overwrought anime, you're good to go.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 8:17PM RickGhastly said

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@RickGhastly
That's rambly because I was preoccupied.

TL;DR? The genre benefits from controlling your actions, always promising more. It doesn't mean the game is "linear" and "crap", it means that it gives it the opportunity to pace things so that progression goes hand in hand with exploration. Incessant streamlining kills that dynamic; the game never feels any more grand than the cutscene budget.
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:55PM Churrotastic said

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For JRPG's...I would say, based on this generation...be more like Lost Odyssey, less like FF XIII.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 7:57PM 343 Guilty Fart said

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I'm glad this article is at least taking itself seriously, not like the snarky sarcastic angry rant like last week. That being said, it seems there's a lot more reasons to enjoy a JRPG besides the few points given by the writer, whose reasons could be applied to a whole range of other genres. I would say for me that JRPGs usually offer a nice strategic component that I don't find in other game genres. Turn based JRPGs provide the long term strategy of a board game, something you wouldn't find with say, any shooter.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 8:05PM Esposch said

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The one thing I dislike about most JRPGs is the mind-numbing difficulty. Fortunately Lost Odyssey didn't fall into this trap.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 12:12AM Greyfoxtypezero said

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@Esposch

a lot of jrpg expect a certain level of "grindage" at least to the point where current enemies faced don't present a challenge
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 9:23PM Bronze Brad said

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Half the comments here are missing the damn point.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 8:47AM Torticoli said

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@Bronze Brad Thankfully, yours is amazingly useful to the debate. Thank God you posted that !
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Posted: Dec 10th 2011 6:56PM Bronze Brad said

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@Torticoli Holy hell, look at all this irony
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Posted: Dec 9th 2011 9:27PM DrAwsm said

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If you've played Radiant Historia this year at all, you know that the JRPGs can still be amazing. Are they out of their prime? I'd say yes, if only because action-RPGs seem to becoming more commonplace (The World Ends with You, the Kingdom Hearts series, Bastion, etc.). I think it also has a lot to do with patience; a lot of people I know just can't stand selecting "Magic" or "Fight." That's probably why action-RPGs are becoming mainstream: they give fast-paced battles, but they still require you the satisfaction that only a JRPG can bring.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 9:42PM TCJJ said

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I definitely agree with this and the GameFAQs review is hilarious. It seems that there are way too many people these days who go on like that and it bugs me.

Personally, I like sprites, and when people say they hate them, that irks me (I mean, geez, at least TRY to be polite. People these days have no manners). I can respect older games (that, and I adore retro gaming), and I was born in the 90s, so I'm definitely not the oldest person here, but I don't whinge about older games like many others my age. People hate the fact that I like retro games. I just think they're missing out.

It just annoys me that everything always has to be bigger and better to be any good. There are plenty of older games that I'd rather play than some of the crap that gets churned out these days (which isn't to say old generations don't have bad games or new generations don't have good games, but that retro games aren't bad just because they're old).

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 10:51PM Jennacide said

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There is nothing wrong with diluting a game by it's elements. The problem is entirely with the general community having no concept of middle ground. A perfect example of that is Metacritic. Go to any game that got lukewarm reviews, or even decent critical ones, but wasn't liked by fans. For instance, Dragon Age 2.

The game has some serious issues in environmental reuse, bizarre art style choices, horrendous third act, and a handful more. But it also has great characters, solid gameplay, good voice acting across the board, and the first half of the story isn't bad. And yet, what do you see on Metacritic? A field of zero's. No game, other than maybe Superman 64, deserves a zero. By mere fact of being what it set out to be, a game, even the worst shit, if it's remotely playable, is better than zero.

Posted: Dec 9th 2011 11:12PM DokiDokiBawanga said

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i mainly play J-RPGs. For me it's the new world, story and characters is what makes J-RPGs worth playing, i couldn't care less about gameplay it can be text based for all i care. Just give me new world to lose myself in and as i watch anime a lot i tend to like Japanese crated worlds better than western buy a LOT.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 1:08AM Mike Knew said

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I bitched about your last column, but this is pitch perfect. I couldn't agree more, and I actually realised the other day that, more than any other genre, JRPGs rely on suspension of disbelief, in every sense of the term. In no other genre would I put up with the sort of melodramatic 'crap' that seems synonymous with JRPGs, let alone enjoy it to the extent that I do.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 1:28AM freaparn said

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@Marshillboy

I could never figure out what the hell was the main protagonist from Tales of Vesperia was supposed to be. I mean it *looks* like a typical JRPG effeminate male lead, but most of the time it acted like a mannish woman. It is great mystery.

Posted: Dec 10th 2011 1:30AM freaparn said

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Comment system is so broken.
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